Gardening

[Simple but effective]

Lol. I got that! Honestly the concept sounds interesting enough. I'm starting a survival library to compile as much info as I can. Actually might start a thread on the subject. If you'd be kind enough to throw the book title and author on here it would be appreciated.

 

[old_anorak]

The Farmer's Almanac is about the best you can get. It will give you the right days for each year.

 

[Simple but effective]

I agree but I'm always looking into backups and alternatives. If the shtf the almanac would only be good for a while since it might not keep being published

 

[old_anorak]

But the signs don't change. The moon will always cycle.

 

[Danil54grl]

This is a barbaric thread. Clyde HELP!

lol, but only cause you are male Wiredog8!

 

[old_anorak]

Take heart Wiredog, I can nut a piglet in under a minute, your daughter's boyfriend won't take me any longer!

 

[WilliamAshley]

What variety of lettuce are you trying William? Are you growing indoors or out?

all outdoors, I started some stuff indoors to extend the growing season by a week. I tried 3 or 4 types of lettuce, only 1 type grew well, the sorrel. iceberg didn't grow, summer didn't grow, looseleaf didn't grow. I have no idea why..

This is my last year of experimental growing as I'm down to the last chunk of seeds from two years ago... I do now know what does grow well.... it also gave me an idea of grow times. I'm mostly clay in the backyard, but I have soil in the front yard.

The stuff takes like twice as long to grow up here compared to what the packs say.

The only things I think I can count on to grow back are the raspberries, wild strawberry, and rhubarb, I think my key is to get creeper plants that will come back year after year, I'm going to try to add cranberries this year, I get to see if my river grape survived the winter.., this year I'm planting the cranberries.. I try to plant wild stuff that is native up here like Indian apple (a rose plant whose buds are nice, it grows as a shrub type plant year after year) Carrots take a real long time to grow up here,

this year I will be planting
Rapini broccoli (none of my broccoli grew last year)
southern giant mustard (I think this will grow I think I had a bunch of it last year)
fennel
winter rye
white egg turnip
golden acre cabbage (cabbage didn't grow last year..)
red russian kale
scarlett runner pole beans.. (these budded but something ate the buds and they remained a stump next to their posts.. only came up an inch budded, then the buds were eaten by something)
bush scallop sqaush (none of my squash grew last year)
blackeye peas (some of my peas grew last year but generally just the big ones which were giants, i don't think these grow last year)
seeded simpson lettuce (I think a little bit of this grew last year but very little considering the amount I planted)
hailstone raddish (this should grow but the bell cherry radish grows best)
bib lettuce (this was the stuff that grew well.. ignore the sorel part)
royalty purple pod beans (I think these were the things that grew into monster size last year..)
grand rapids lettuce
cantelope (didn't grow last year)
round zuccini squash (didn't grow)
rizona
giant swiss chard
red cherry hot pepper
rolrabbi
walla walla onion
buttercrunch lettuce
foxtail millet (I think this grew last year)
easter egg raddish
large leaf sorel
cherry bell radish (both the leaves and radish part can be eaten)
national pickling cucumber seeds
spring onion purplet
strawberry popcorn (my corn stalk did grow last year, but I didn't get to see any corn also there appeared to be a lot of mites on the thing which then spread to some of my yearling fruit trees, they seem to love the leaves and sap. I think the eggs must have been in the corn itself.
oregon sugar pea pod
bush scallop
yellow pear tomato
wheat grass
winter wonder cucumber
canton pok choi
n. rustia
ruby swiss chard
china rose radish
crimson sweet watermelon (no luck with mellons..)
black beauty zuccinni
round zuccini
white globe turnip
lime basil
mamoth russian sunflower (none of my sunflowers grew last year)
chamomile
red sun sunflower
luffa gourd
sweet flag gras
ballhead cabbage

nodding onion
mulberry fruit tree (don't think this will grow may try indoor)

fringed sage

long grain brown rice
black hollyhock
purlple lead
baby's breath
some peas
spanish onion
garlic chives

tobacco
wakefield cabbage
grand rapids lettuce

white ownder cuccmber
thimbleberry

oats (these grew well last year, but I didn't feel that I got enough out of them)
cimmaron lettuce
marketmore cucumber
white icicle radish
black seeded simpson lettuce

I attempt to extend the number of indian apple, fruit trees, etc.. each year... (I still feel like these things that grow back each year on their own are the only dependable things I plant... ...)

this year should see most of my seeds I bought last year, as well as the seeds I brought up 2009/2010 gone

I also may buy a few packs of corn as it grew well I just didn't get to see it grow husks..
I may also get some new carrots as it seems all my carrots and corn were planted last year and I have none left.. but both grew ok so they are worth restocking.
not as much variety as I had last year.

I also saved two potatoes and one sweet potato ... which have inch root/stocks on them now... not sure how long they will survive for out of ground... can't plant them probably for another month
I used up all my pumpkins, and carrots last year pumpkins didn't grow by september didn't notice them anywhere...

 

[old_anorak]

How long is your growing season? I was looking at some of the cold hearty lettuce varieties and one mentioned was Artic King. Do you hill your potatoes or plant them directly in the ground? Sweet potatoes I know nothing about because I don't have anything to do with them. If you put cold frames up, maybe you already have, you can extend your season a good while as well. Do bush beans grow well for you? If they do, you might try Blue Lake, they have a short growing season and are usually good producers. Our pole beans didn't do well last year due to the drought.

 

[Chicknladee]

Sweet potatoes require a LONG season or using short season varieties. We had pretty good luck with some sweet potatoes last year (first attempt) by hilling the soil early covering with clear plastic to warm the soil and planting when the soil was WARM. (I need to get off my rear and get to it atarting slips for this years crop) Otherwise last year was a FUNNY growing year and we are in cold MN. It was warm early then COLD then warm. Many things didn't grow well for us either.

 

[WilliamAshley]

How long is your growing season? I was looking at some of the cold hearty lettuce varieties and one mentioned was Artic King. Do you hill your potatoes or plant them directly in the ground? Sweet potatoes I know nothing about because I don't have anything to do with them. If you put cold frames up, maybe you already have, you can extend your season a good while as well. Do bush beans grow well for you? If they do, you might try Blue Lake, they have a short growing season and are usually good producers. Our pole beans didn't do well last year due to the drought.

That is a good question.... It snowed June 1st last year Frost can can set in in late August...

I bought a bunch of chinese made greenhouses like 5 or 6 from some guy in michigan, windstorm blew in not long after I put them up blew them all down (they weremade of plastic tubes joints and metal poles and plastic tarp cover.. anyway the plastic joints snapped as the wind blew in.. so much for experimenting with greenhoues. None the less I'd like to turn my small house into a grow house, as I got a camper I want to turn into my living area/sleeping area, I figure that my shed and house will make a better area for housing animals and I can reduce my heating costs by reinforcing the camper which has more volume.

None the less my place up north is pretty rundown so converting it into a grow house and coupe isn't like tearing apart a brick house http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=108 riverview st longlac&hl=en&ll=49.783827,-86.537097&spn=0.006927,0.021136&hnear=108 Riverview St, Greenstone, Thunder Bay District, Ontario&gl=ca&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=49.783855,-86.537229&panoid=T0ESqxa3qJ5n8ybQZRa9vg&cbp=12,24.87,,1,-0.4/

I'd like to position the old 24' terry taurus camper between the house and garage then simply put up an insulation barrier at the front and rear of the campersince I'll bascially be snuggling a camper between the house and garage which I can inflill with insulation.... camper would still be able to be pulled out by removing the sandbag wall .. and i can use the camper for easier access to the roof.. I figure 1000 sandbags for under $300 should be able to build my barriers or even steps.. Maybe even some pillars to put my greenhouse tarps over by just making corners to hold the tarp between.

None the less... it is my project location.

grow season is 3-4 months.. but I can do some heated beds and glass coverings, greenhouse, and heaters if I wanted to extend it, my grape is river grape if it survives the winter, which is rated to up to -40 stuff can grow into oct, not long after, and I can start planting in May but still risk of frost if there is a freak cold day.

the good news is that I found a bag of a whole bunch of seeds that I didn't know I still had...

brussel sprouts
eggplant
red acre cabbage
sesame flower
jalepeno
golden jubilee tomato
navy bean
acrorn squash
snake gourd
laurentian rudabagha
italian eggplant
butternut squash
jackollatern
michihili cabbage
danish bulbhead cabbage
tall utah broccoli
late flat dutch cabbage
crystal white wax onion
scarlet nantes carrot
great northern bean
black sesame
royal chatenay carrot
waltham brocoli
acorn squash
clove sented basil
buttercrunch
oregon sugar pea pod
iceberg
carnival sqaush
spagetti squash
florence fennel
red cherry hot peepper
italian eggplna
wampum corn (which i am happy i have some left!)
tall utah celery
early jersey wakefield
genovese basil
baby lima
little fingers carrot
sugar baby watermellon
cherokee wax beans
white globe turnip

I only bought one pack of seeds this year some chinese kale, they sent me saffron as a gift with it.. my grow season starts in a little two weeks aside from what I've started cold stratifying a few weeks ago.
yeah pretty bad shape anyway I want to put the camper into that space and turn the house on the the right into a grow house / coupe,

I bought my seeds based on northern pioneer, scandinavian, native american, and russian gardening methods. I still have TONS to learn.

This is all a learning experience for me each year, I try to introduce atleast one new plant to this mix... even though I try many, I have realistic expectations... I think this may be one of my last years with my first bulk purchased of seeds from last year, maybe some left, I think due to seed life putting about $100 worth of seeds per year is a steady amount for learning on, I think my success strategy will be to plant plants that come back on their own each year. But I'll keep at it.

The bottom line is I'm learning what likes the soil and environment up here. Each year my growing area expands, my compost improves a little, and my methods improve a bit, I figure a few years down the road I'll have a solid backyard garden going. Part of the key is mixing native species with these popculture garden foods.

Lots of precipitation up here usually. My goal is to turn my entire back yard into a garden/orchard, front yard too. Not much of a lawn person. This is a real challenge due to season length and average temps. I'll keep trying though I'm sure my methods will improve.

Part of my project is to also make patches out in the woods too.

 

[old_anorak]

If I might make a suggestion. One thing you might do now is get a roll of black plastic and lay it out over your planting area. The black plastic will absorb the sunlight and heat the earth, bringing the temperature up so you can plant earlier. We made cold frames from old window glass and lumber and just move them as we need to. We've made them with clear plastic and old lumber as well and that works pretty good too and with them being low profile to the ground the early spring storms didn't do much damage to them.

We've considered hoop houses and could get a grant to do one, I just don't want to jump through the government hoops for it.

I've read on several people's accounts of living in a greenhouse/living quarters setup and while they stayed warm, the draw backs to the humidity were too much and mold was an issue apparently. Now I've read where people in the north will dig a pit in the center of the greenhouse in the middle of the fall and dump in green manure and as it decomposes through the winter it heats the greenhouse nicely.

You said that you would like to raise chickens but that they won't send them. Is it that they won't send that few or that you are too far out? Are there any animal swap meets or auctions around? What about buying them from a small farm close by? You'd need a light source during the winter for good laying, but it can be done. I let ours take the winter off and just let them lay as they will and don't try to force it, but when they are laying heavy I store the eggs for when they aren't laying. Another thing with the chickens, you could use a chicken tractor to keep the ground fertilized for your gardens.

I'm not familiar with many of the vegetables you are growing, are they heirloom varieties?

 

[Simple but effective]

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Walipini_Underground_Greenhouses

Been thinking of building a greenhouse? Check this out. Good thing I can run a backhoe. Perfect greenhouse for me

 

[WilliamAshley]

.... black plastic

...We've considered hoop houses ...

compost, it decomposes through the winter it heats the greenhouse nicely....

You said that you would like to raise chickens but that they won't send them. Is it that they won't send that few or that you are too far out? Are there any animal swap meets or auctions around? What about buying them from a small farm close by?

I'm not familiar with many of the vegetables you are growing, are they heirloom varieties?

Do you think garbage bags would be fine for attracting heat?

-- I was considering hoop houses too but got the "ready to assemble" kits which subsequently broke after the first wind storm, if only I had a way of bending metal without kinking it.

The nearest hatchery is about 300km away, between us and them is an indian reserve pretty much 300km of highway, now I could drive there but that is like $40+ in gas, and insuring my car again which I don't use, or biking a monster 300km with my ebike which I've done but biking 300km back with 3 chickens would be odd, it could be done but I'm not sure I want to spend that amount of time on getting the chickens over here. It would be about 6 hours of driving if I were to get the car but added costs would tack on about $400 or so, for the 3 - 4 pullets.

Even the wild animals avoid town, aside from foxes and bears drawn in by food baiting, and the odd falchon and snowy owl, feild mice, and perhaps some other small criter, there are no farms out here, I think the local old age home started a co-op garden, thats about it. Its more of a mowing town. even really tiny, and lots of people just mow weeds cause there is next to no grass, but its green anyway. right. Take a look at the map, there are no farms out here. its mining, forestry and railroad in these parts, think alaska without government spending. The railroad goes north, and south.. but there is nothing out here take a look. Its actually 12 degrees warmer in Juneau right now than Longlac, but 8 degrees colder in Gnome, it is warmer in Anchorage by about 8 degrees now.

https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=greenstone&hl=en&sll=49.303974,-84.738438&sspn=14.341972,43.286133&t=h&hnear=Greenstone, Thunder Bay District, Ontario&z=8
The closest area that farming is known is up to the north in a ghosttown that was a way point in the railroad that closed down between the 1960's and 1980's. The farmland up there apparently turned into dust, and resulted in the largest artificial forest planting.
None the less, I think any type of farms would at closest be about 200km away.


I got them from someone selling in Ohio mostly, but a few other sources, some were sold as heirloom. I got them from various seed sellers around the world.

The soil is a major mix, its a strange geological zone within a few KM you get bare rock multiple types, mostly granite, peat, clay and somewhat normal sedmimentary soil, sand dunes, and dirt, as well as lots of gravel. Lots of glacial till. The lake is what is left of lake agagazi one of the largest glacial lakes in north america at the last ice age formed by the melting of the laurentide glaciers when they retreated. Lots of minerals nearby gold, uranium, quartz etc.. theres been a little bit of prospecting out here.

Basically the area is near the hieght of land... the lake runs to the south, and the lake runs to the north... there is a damn though about 20km that diverts water back to the south usually. there is a damn also to the south of the lake...... the lake is like 100km long. hence the name long lake. the river goes all the way to james back to the north and all the way to lake superior to the south. my backyard is next to a camp ground, which behind it is 100's upon 100's of km of boreal forest and muskeg. well about 50km until you hit the old rail mainline that had its rails removed in the 80's and turned into an access road. beyond that is just boreal forest and muskeg as far as the eye can see.

the town is just patchy with the claybelt to the west, which further into the claybelt was used for agriculture, but due to the cold temps most farmers gave up, there is still tons of claybelt land though. My backyard is clay after a foot my front yard is soil. The road about half a km from my place is where the old border of upper Canada and Ruperts land use to be, that is the hudson bay company, there is the old site of the HBC post just on the other side of the lake about 1 or 2 km from my place. most of it is under water though because the lake was flooded. with the dam. They did back in the 1820's have a cow or so, and grew some food like most posts, but I think that they were probably the one and only to do that in these parts.

There are wild pheasants up here and lots of duck and geese, but I'm not sure how I could catch them to domesticate them, that seems the rational answer to get some pet ducks or geese. Mostly mallards in these parts but they are VERY skitish. you make a noise they bolt.

It is fringe between subarctic and temperate. seedzone like 2 (2b)

zone H growing days 100-110 last frost June 3
first frost September 16

​

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/crops/facts/climzoneveg.htm

 

[old_anorak]

The things with having any poultry shipped from a hatchery is that you generally need to have at least 15-25 shipped so that they keep themselves warm enough. They won't ship small lots, but they will ship mixed lots. I don't know about shipping over the border. What about the Canadian hatcheries, won't they ship to you? Order your layers mixed in with some ducks and broilers and you'll have your order. If you don't want to butcher your broiler, you could possibly sell them to a neighbor at a premium price because they wouldn't be fed the medicated feed. Just a thought.

Even if you were to go get them yourself, unless you have a way to keep them warm, you would want to get enough that they'd keep themselves warm enough.

Clay is just an all around pain in the ### to deal with. No other way to put it. Takes forever and a day to make it worthwhile to plant with. You're going to be hauling in straw, sand, hay, manure, and every other thing you can think of to dig into it and work in for years before it gives you a good crop. Here in most of Missouri we have red clay. It's great for making stuff, but it's crap fro growing anything. My parents' place is clay. I hate clay. Took several years before we got it to grow much. We plowed in a lot of material to break up that clay and add nutrients, just takes time and hard work.

Garbage bags will work, I was just thinking the rolls of black plastic. Here it is cheaper to get the rolls and it's a heavier plastic that can be used season after season.

Is it legal to keep wild fowl there? Here you can get nailed for it.

 

[WilliamAshley]

Canadian hatcheries, won't they ship to you? Order your layers mixed in with some ducks and broilers and you'll have your order. If you don't want to butcher your broiler, you could possibly sell them to a neighbor at a premium price.

I've looked at the hatcheries that I know of, and they are lead by Frey's which will not ship.
there is a chicken monopoly in Ontario, there is a quota system, I can't resell chickens legally, you have to be part of the quota system.

I'm not 100% ready for them yet anyway I need to get some chicken fencing but my shed out back I think would be a great coop once some wire was stabled onto my two shelves. maybe make an extra roost.

It seems more likely I'll be growing worms this year, I figure if I get a good supply of worm, it will be better as backup chicken feed.

Clay is just an all around pain in the ### to deal with. No other way to put it. Takes forever and a day to make it worthwhile to plant with. You're going to be hauling in straw, sand, hay, manure, and every other thing you can think of to dig into it and work in for years before it gives you a good crop.

That was last year, carrots grew, but were really small. beans loved it. my lectuce grew in it too, a patch. The squash plant grew but ended up dropping its flowers and that was it. I use grass from the previous year to absorb liquid and have some fertalizer, and wood ash to mix in.

Here in most of Missouri we have red clay. It's great for making stuff, but it's crap fro growing anything. My parents' place is clay. I hate clay. Took several years before we got it to grow much. We plowed in a lot of material to break up that clay and add nutrients, just takes time and hard work.

Garbage bags will work, I was just thinking the rolls of black plastic. Here it is cheaper to get the rolls and it's a heavier plastic that can be used season after season.

I read black plastic actually may not be as good for heat as my clear plastic, which is greenhouse cover. However I'm going to try a mix of both this year.

Is it legal to keep wild fowl there? Here you can get nailed for it.

most people just shoot em and eat em up here.

Canada geese can only be shot in specific circumstances. Havn't seen anything preventing you keeping them as pets and eating their eggs.


Migratory Birds Convention Act prohibits people from keeping wild birds, including Canada geese, without a permit.


5. Except as authorized by the regulations, no person shall, without lawful excuse,

• (a) be in possession of a migratory bird or nest;

 

[old_anorak]

I think a lot of people had bad luck with squash last year. Ours did the same thing, flowered and then nothing. It's good that you got carrots out of clay, I'm impressed. Loosen that clay up good and you should get really nice sized carrots. I can't grow carrots cheaper than buying them. I get them from an older gentleman. They are what he calls 'horse' carrots. 50 pound sacks for $10. I can't grow them for that and get them big enough to bother with. These aren't the prettiest carrots, but they eat the same.

Something I am going to try this year are mangel beets for the animals. If you are going to eventually have chickens or rabbits, you might be interested in them. They get huge, easily 20 pounds apiece. People can eat them, but normally eat them when they are much smaller. My grandparents grew them as a feed crop for the livestock. Everything ate them; horses, cattle, sheep, goats, pigs, chickens, ducks, rabbits, dogs would get them cooked. You just need room for them.

The migratory birds convention act seems like it would keep you from keeping a goose or wild duck as a pet and eating it's eggs.

So let me get this straight. If you buy chicks from a hatchery and raise them up. You cannot then sell the grown bird to someone else? What if you butcher that bird can you sell the carcass? What if you just raised layers, can you sell the eggs? I'm honestly curious. Things are very different here in the US. What if you were to buy fertile eggs off of ebay and then hatch them out yourself?

 

[jimLE]

i use to live across the street from a couple always had thier own garden..one thing he would do is.get the crops going first.then put down news papers,then grass clipping on top of themthe ground would stay wett longer..and when growing season ended for the year.he'd till all that into the ground..we had a 3x8 flower bed with landscape timber around it one time.i used plywood on the inside to keep water seeping out before it reached the roots.i grew some good tomatos and jalapenos that way..

 

[old_anorak]

Good idea. We use old straw and bedding for mulching.

 

[Haloray]

there are many DIY planters for inside use. And they don't take much space and look kind of nice http://cdn-ugc.cafemom.com/gen/constrain/500/500/80/2012/08/16/01/5e/zm/poxuh7o84k.jpg http://greenupgrader.com/files/2009/07/planters1.jpg http://www.naturalbuildingblog.com/wp-content/uploads/pallet-vegetable-garden.jpg

 

[Haloray]

well, inside OR outside use