Becoming a Trading Post

[Tyler]

Personally I like the idea of trading, I have a few things in my BOB for it but it is just that, an idea. Small senario: my group of 5 men come up looking for ammo, you say you habe what we need, we say we have food. I come in, alone but with a pistol with 5 rounds in it. You have your guards on me and 1 comes to put me down. I take him as hostage through a simple menouver while facing you and your other guards. At this point the rest of my team has been set up with long range weapons (think .50 cal) and take out any guards behind me. Now say there were 2 guards behind me, 3 guards in front and you. We have just killed 2 of your guards. Then at this point my men start coming in the 200 meter mark. I fire a shot or 2 and kill another gaurd, that makes 3 dead and I've lost 0. You could have shot me when I was taking your guard as hostage, but then you might have hit him. Say you fire a shot and kill me freeing your guard. 3 of your guys are dead, we habe lost 1. At this point my snipers (there are 2) fire on you and your remaining guards, killing you all as my team advance. 6 dead to 1 dead. Yea I'm dead, but so is your team. Say you killed me right off the bat and my team can't get the shot off. You can't cover your 200 m perimeter every second of every day. At a 200m distance that is a 628.3 meter perimeter. Even with a wall we could get through. At night, no lights an beginner team could get through. Say we break the perimeter and there is only 4, silenced weapons to take out the guards from behind and sleeping people is easy work.

Not trying to destroy your plan, just give you an idea of a situation. Post apoc trading with in a community will be safe but outsiders are not welcome at all with us

 

[Sbrosky1]

These scenarios you think up need practice and practical application. Never under estimate the abilities, needs, and desperation of anyone you come nto contact with. On that same note, don't over estimate your own capabilities. There will always be someone bigger and badder than you.

Trading post is a bad idea. Like Walmart within hours of a SHTF, you will be overrun and scavenged. If you have it, others will want it. They will try to take it using any means necessary. Please don't delude yourself into a false security by presenting a small firearm with limited ammo.

Tobacco, ammo, and food will be a currency. Gold and silver don't fill a belly.

 

[Gazrok]

Will certainly be risky, but from what we've seen in past SHTF events, at some point (and sooner than you'd think) trade is inevitable. The key is being a large, well armed group.

Not trying to destroy your plan, just give you an idea of a situation

No, I appreciate it, it's exactly why I posted the thread.

Say you killed me right off the bat and my team can't get the shot off. You can't cover your 200 m perimeter every second of every day

We're damn sure going to try. That's where the amount of people, shifts, etc. come in (we'll do a LOT of rotation, to help guard against boredom for sentries). Also, my guards are in concrete block and sandbag pillboxes. You have no cover and fences to deal with at this range (while they have full cover). The risk is mostly to your group, as would the casualties.

Good luck sneaking the pistol past the marine/cop/MMA fighter checking you for it. (and yeah, we'll take the shot if you try to hold him hostage, as he'll be wearing at least a vest, if not more armor). His wife would likely take the shot herself.

Nothing is full-proof of course, and larger groups may present simply too much risk to stay, but attacking us would be a costly affair. We're not looking to advertise, but as things calm down, and people roam further, it is inevitable we'll be found, and when we are, we'd like to at least have the possibility of working something out other than open conflict.

The bigger risk I think will be people within any group. Eventually, there will be disagreements, etc. and handling those well will really be the key to survival. Luckily, my friends and I know each other well, and pretty much agree what roles we'd play in it. Of course, we're hoping it never gets put to the test, but I already do a lot of "horse trading" and barter so to speak, so really, this would be nothing new come the apocalypse.

within hours of a SHTF

Oh, this wouldn't be until MONTHS after the SHTF. Right after the SHTF, I'm cutting down trees, light poles, towing cars, etc. to block off roads leading to us (and spreading caltrops to pop any vehicle tires attempting the roads), and trying to lay low.

 

[Sbrosky1]

Allow me to clarify. In the hours preceding a hurricane, the shelves get emptied of everything! In the hours after an incident, the run on super markets is a given. If you set up shop, within three days of an incident, you will see scavengers. ESPECIALLY when Uncle Sam don't step in. Look at the aftermath of Katrina. Within days, people were desparate. Don't plan on desperation taking months. Plan on days. Three minimum.

Months after an incident, if life has not stabilized, then you may have an opportunity to set up shop. But only if you have survived the desperation of the scavengers.

 

[Gazrok]

Allow me to clarify. In the hours preceding a hurricane, the shelves get emptied of everything! In the hours after an incident, the run on super markets is a given. If you set up shop, within three days of an incident, you will see scavengers. ESPECIALLY when Uncle Sam don't step in. Look at the aftermath of Katrina. Within days, people were desparate. Don't plan on desperation taking months. Plan on days. Three minimum.

Months after an incident, if life has not stabilized, then you may have an opportunity to set up shop. But only if you have survived the desperation of the scavengers.

We're about 5 miles outside of town proper, and it's about a 30,000 people town (and even that is pretty spread out), so pretty unlikely we'll see any scavengers our way for some time. Not like the trouble that will happen in large cities. I imagine folks will be very desperate initially, even more-so after weeks, then more settled after months following an event.

 

[Tyler]

Good luck sneaking the pistol past the marine/cop/MMA fighter checking you for it. (and yeah, we'll take the shot if you try to hold him hostage, as he'll be wearing at least a vest, if not more armor). His wife would likely take the shot herself

To that point, yes it is true, vests and more armour is nice, but I'd be using him a shield so shoot away, your just firing at your own troops. It takes your mind .8 of a second for your mind to make a dissision, a trained person can fire 6 shots in a second. All it takes is one slip up. As for the wife taking the shot, my personal suggestion is to split families up for sittuations like this to prevent her having to take the shot. It takes 1 second of hesitation and they are both dead and that is what you will get with having someone have to shot at someone they love. How many people do you have that will work as guards? A lose is a lose but if we are out of food and we need some we will be making daring opperations

 

[Gazrok]

No doubt, but I do plan on having signage stating terms and so on (and consequences, like dying because we poisoned some of the food, even if we're all dead), and labor is a trading good everyone has to offer. I'm sure most folks would rather eat than risk their lives or the lives of comrades...especially if it isn't needed. No doubt such an armed group would have things they've accumulated they may want to trade, like unused extra weapons, ammo of calibers they don't use, other items, etc. I'm sure logically, they'd rather do such a trade than risk lives and injury in an armed operation against a fortified position. At least, that is the hope.

I just think the possibility of trade and the ability to open up a dialogue would be a more attractive option and a win/win for both groups, rather than armed conflict with unknown foes. I've got a lot of tactical tricks, and I'm a vengeful m-f'er when it comes to it. If we do go, we're taking them with us, even if we're already cold on the ground....

But, I'd rather be on decent terms with such armed groups, rather than their enemies. If they are the kind that move on from target to target, they are going to come across many things they don't need, and that's where we could come in, trading them needed items for these things to trade with others (or for ourselves).

Of course, we'll have to decide this kind of thing depending on the particular SHTF event. I mean, depending on how things go, we could shift to a to Kill all Intruders philosophy if needed, but I really hope it doesn't come to that.

As for how many, I won't say exact numbers of folks (the number has increased some lately), but because I have a lot of fencing, and even two layers of fencing in most parts, (eventually in all), it only takes 6 different sentry points to watch the whole perimeter. Ideally, I'd have about 8 of these instead (the extra 2 watching the areas closer to the home inside the perimeter). The plan is for someone to only have sentry duty for 2 hours at a time, before switching with another and doing some other task for a couple hours or resting, eating, washing, etc., etc.. Otherwise, they'll go nuts (and be lousy sentries).

As for the wife. She'd insist on taking the shot. You'd have to know her...hehe. (she's actually a natural good shot too, and a reflexive one). Her hubby is a current cop, and in the military, was a damn good shot himself, all kinds of awards at it. First time he took her to the police range, she blew him away with her accuracy. Oddly enough, all the women in the group (save two) are damn good shots. Only one of the guys is a crappy shot (he's better at close up stuff, so he'd be more of a body guard in the house). He's so bad a shot, I likely wouldn't even have him on sentry duty.

 

[Sbrosky1]

Practice and practical application. If you are not workin on these maneuvers and committing them to muscle memory you will fail. Your numbers will not be static. And if you lose more hands than you gain....well you may find yourself short. Over confidence can be your downfall. Your wife may be an excellent shot but what if she's injured or taken hostage.

Best laid plans....

The military trains every day and they tran for every incidence. They work well and like a well oiled machine. You want to succeed you must train like that. Every chance you get! Everyone needs to train and train often so everyone is on the same page.

 

[Gazrok]

Fully agree. We train together doing airsoft and paintball mostly (and with the idea of it being live/real fire, vs. paint). It's about as much as we can work in realistically, as we're active families. It's the cop's wife who's the really good shot. My wife is decent too, but the cop's wife is nearly supernatural. Like me, she doesn't need to aim, can just reflexively shoot a pistol and hit the target, but she's more dead on than I am. I'm better with a scoped rifle though.

May sound like I'm overconfident, but far from it. I hope we NEVER have to put any of this to the test. I am all for prepping and plans, etc., but hope we never have to use it. I like modern life. I like safety and security. I prep more for self-sufficiency than any desire for a "reset".

 

[Tyler]

True, my suggestion for your meeting point is get a pill box off your land where you can meet

 

[Gazrok]

True, my suggestion for your meeting point is get a pill box off your land where you can meet​

I like the idea of the initial conversation being via a two-way radio. Downside to a location off property is that I don't have the cover fire, and to guard it, I'd have to have others away from the property instead of protecting it.
The one person at a time idea is to stave off the group attack plan. I'm always open to suggestions though, so feel free. I can't think of everything, and your comments did point out some serious considerations.

 

[cyclingjames]

depending on how many people you have you could have some inside and some hidden outside so if anything goes wrong inside, they can storm in and save the day.

 

[Gazrok]

Well, we would always have a couple of scouts most likely, but originally, I was thinking about once they spotted someone coming, to fall back to the ranch.
May be a good idea to have them out there as some kind of backup. A lot just may depend on the situation.
This actually does raise another consideration and thought though. (i.e. a way through the back fencing if we need to flee). I have a 12' gate through one fence, but not through the outer one, so it'd need to be put in (and secured). And a tree or two may need to be removed. A fleeing group could drive out through it, and then through the pasture back there relatively unseen from the main road.

 

[Tyler]

One thing you could do is set up some designated hiding spots, like for 2 -4people so should they get trapped or left behind they could remain there until they can be freed or escape

 

[Gazrok]

That's an interesting thought. Especially for those who couldn't move fast for some reason.
I actually know a perfect spot for this. Thanks.

 

[Tyler]

No problem, we have a snipers nest (sorta) for our group just on the top of a hill overlooking our house

 

[Sbrosky1]

Thinking outside the box. I like it. Fluid and evolving. Sticking to a singular mindset will get you killed.

 

[old_anorak]

Did I read that right? 5 MILES? Holy batshit, that's an easy walk for even the laziest assed welfare degenerate. And you have close neighbors? Oh sweet baby Jesus you are going to be overrun and annihilated before you can get plans into action. I am seriously scared at this trading post idea if you are that damned close to people. That's sticking a giant bull's eye on your loved ones.

Hey, it's great if you want to think everything is going to work out and it just might do that and one day my horses will crap jelly beans too.

I'd have the family somewhere the heck else before even mentioning trade with anyone.

 

[Gazrok]

Did I read that right? 5 MILES? Holy batshit, that's an easy walk for even the laziest assed welfare degenerate. And you have close neighbors? Oh sweet baby Jesus you are going to be overrun and annihilated before you can get plans into action. I am seriously scared at this trading post idea if you are that damned close to people. That's sticking a giant bull's eye on your loved ones.

Hey, it's great if you want to think everything is going to work out and it just might do that and one day my horses will crap jelly beans too.

I'd have the family somewhere the heck else before even mentioning trade with anyone.

Your opinion of lazy degenerates is far more generous than mine, hehe. Well, I have a handful of close neighbors. I do have a LOT of fencing though. It's a small, and spread out town though too, not a metropolis (like two major streets that everything is on). (and at first, during the chaos period, I intend to completely block the roads leading to us, by downing trees, power lines, etc., whatever it takes). Only a couple of roads lead into the area.

The trading post thing is only for when things have quieted down, and only IF and WHEN we feel it safe to do so.
Yes, there will certainly be a "safe place" for noncombatant family members. Let's face it though, trade will happen, and it will be fairly necessary. To me, being seen as more of a long-term asset (i.e. renewable supplies and services) than a target is the one thing that will save us from our biggest threat (organized armed gangs). Any other strategy just means fighting it out to the death, which is really my last preference.

I'd prefer an even more rural setting, but it is what it is. We play the cards we're dealt.

 

[Clyde]

Odd as it may sound, post SHTF, I foresee a time when society does somewhat stabilize. For the most part, I'm hoping our rural location keeps us from dealing with much of the chaos. But, eventually, we'll want to interact more with others (and get things we'll need/want from others).

So, here are the things we'd plan on offering at our place:

WATER - With a well, lots of water storage, lots of rain, and access to nearby fresh water sources, this seems an easy thing to trade.

FOOD - With gardens, home-canning, and renewable rabbits, chickens, eggs (and lots of frogs, and snakes), should be something we could offer then.

MEDICAL SERVICES - One of our group is a former EMT, so we could offer this service to trade, along with medical herbs and home-remedies.

INFORMATION - I have been collecting books, maps, pdfs, etc. with info that we could reprint or save to drives, etc. (as long as we can keep some power going)

HORSE TACK - We currently run a tack shop (horse supplies, saddles, etc.), so we'd still have this post disaster. (includes a lot of footwear too, we had some deals on this, so a lot of stock).

SAFE LODGING & MEALS (TEMPORARY) - I have some more detailed info on how to make this safe for all, but basically, a place to lay your head (for a defined time) without worry is a pretty nice commodity.

PROSTITUTION - Morals aside, I know some women in our group who would actually do this in such a situation (though not normally). They have the looks to make it worth the trade too. Oddly enough, I only include it because THEY brought it up...not me.

REPAIRS - I have a pretty well-stocked garage with tools, and those in the group can do a variety of repairs, mechanical, electrical, plumbing, etc.

The above are things we could do now. But I'd like to learn (or have some in the group learn) Ammo Reloading, Making Biodiesel, Making Alcohol, Growing/Processing Tobacco (and similar plants), and Blacksmithing to offer these items/services as well. (and of course, for our own needs)

We'd trade for things we can't make like pharmaceutical drugs, ammo (that the trader can't use for their weapons), batteries, camping gear, news, manufactured items (likely looted from cities), medical supplies, gardening items, tools, etc.

I am certain trading posts will pop up all over the place. in my minds eye, I see things looking a lot like 1850 - 1900. a bunch of small towns or "mining camps."