Prepper Ethics

[GaRp58]

A many-faceted discussion which has not found it end yet. There are so many sides to the story and many more side-effects to the wrong decisions...was this house in the city, a suburb or really in the woods?

better find a tougher argument than dust and spider webs when you're facing a firing squad ....

What if the "owners" have turned cannibal, left the house intact, left good stuff in sight and are only waiting for the food to be delivered in the form of your well armed and healthy BODY???
Just another (sicker than normal) thought for the day...we all know that some will be desperate post-SHTF and will resort to ANYTHING to survive. Without gardens, there will be a few less VEGAN people...GP

 

[BillMasen]

Its only looting if the owners are still present in a major disaster, otherwise its salvage. but I would not just turn up and help myself either. First I will observe the site for a few days. I dont think i would bother with private homes, to much to go wrong. I would print off some notices and leave them for the business owners to find then leave it for a month. If the notices have gone then I will leave, if they are untouched after a month I'll take what I need and leave payment.

Should be plenty to salvage after the 80/90% die off plus the wave of mass shootings that the crazies whose answer to everything is gunfire. and the " I will shoot, lynch, execute the looters" its a 50/50 chance they will shoot YOU.

 

[BillMasen]

The time frame is the key component. In a major long term SHTF event, with an expected 80 to 90% die off, there is going to be a huge amount of scavenger items available. After 6 months to 1 year, if the owner has not returned to the property, chances are they are not going to make it back. NOTE: anytime you venture out, you will be taking your chances, so, scavenging is just one more risky venture. If you are out for a RECON, then you should be equipped with the tools to watch and determine if a place has been abandoned. There will be tell tale signs if a place has been vacant a long time or has been visited recently. The whole purpose of a recon, is to learn what is happening in your search area. That means take the time to study the property ground, the dust patterns on the walkway and in the house, cobwebs, etc. People don't like walking through cobwebs, so they will remove them. No cobwebs near the entry points, not abandoned. I would not feel bad or be morally concerned if I scavenged items from a property I know has been abandoned for a considerable amount of time ---- AFTER ---- a long term shtf event. JM2C

Very good intelligent response, I agree with you. Personally I wont go into peoples homes though, I'll stick to businesses and industry.

 

[Illini Warrior]

A many-faceted discussion which has not found it end yet. There are so many sides to the story and many more side-effects to the wrong decisions...was this house in the city, a suburb or really in the woods?

What if the "owners" have turned cannibal, left the house intact, left good stuff in sight and are only waiting for the food to be delivered in the form of your well armed and healthy BODY???
Just another (sicker than normal) thought for the day...we all know that some will be desperate post-SHTF and will resort to ANYTHING to survive. Without gardens, there will be a few less VEGAN people...GP

you'll just have to brave that .223 to the brainpan to find out whether you're dealing with a "cannibal's" home that has been left totally unmolested - or - it's part of a protected neighborhood and POS looters are being shot for hog food ....

 

[bigpaul]

like Bill says, stick to industrial estates if you have to "scavenge", not residential homes, less chance of being shot, less but not none!

 

[Illini Warrior]

Its only looting if the owners are still present in a major disaster, otherwise its salvage. but I would not just turn up and help myself either. First I will observe the site for a few days. I dont think i would bother with private homes, to much to go wrong. I would print off some notices and leave them for the business owners to find then leave it for a month. If the notices have gone then I will leave, if they are untouched after a month I'll take what I need and leave payment.

Should be plenty to salvage after the 80/90% die off plus the wave of mass shootings that the crazies whose answer to everything is gunfire. and the " I will shoot, lynch, execute the looters" its a 50/50 chance they will shoot YOU.

in what apocalypse hell are you going to be living where a boarded up & guarded homeowner will only have a 50-50 chance against some POS looter? - there's neighborhoods right now that a looter would have a 2% chance of living thru a property trespassing foray - much less tearing doors down ...

totally different set of circumstances between a SHTF and a honest-to-God apocylypse of a massive kill-off >>> probably talking 100-500 max out of a 5,000 count community - better be doing some regional society building to survive the long run and less of a beenie weenie looting thru some pantry ....

 

[grayghost668]

SHTF,,AND WHAT COMES NEXT,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,first how bad are things,,,,is it going to last weeks months ,,,or years,,,,,,,,short term you leave everyone things alone and watch over those that are close,,,,,,your neighbors,,,,if it is long term and will go on for years, if places are deserted and owners have left or you know they are deceased it's all fair game ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,in the end someone will find deserted homes and take what they want,,,I don't see it as theft at that point,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


you can pretend you won't search a place if things go south and it is a year or so down the road,,,but trust me we all will....it's not theft at that point,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,IT'S SURVIVAL

 

[bigpaul]

not what he said IW, he said that a looter had a 50/50 chance of getting shot, not the same thing.
"Society" wont even start to rebuild for many decades post SHTF.

 

[bigpaul]

SHTF,,AND WHAT COMES NEXT,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,first how bad are things,,,,is it going to last weeks months ,,,or years,,,,,,,,short term you leave everyone things alone and watch over those that are close,,,,,,your neighbors,,,,if it is long term and will go on for years, if places are deserted and owners have left or you know they are deceased it's all fair game ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,in the end someone will find deserted homes and take what they want,,,I don't see it as theft at that point,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


you can pretend you won't search a place if things go south and it is a year or so down the road,,,but trust me we all will....it's not theft at that point,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,IT'S SURVIVAL

I wouldnt waste my time on residential houses, dont know about in the US but over here most people havent got half what I've got and most have nothing, unlike the sheeple I have been preparing for years, they probably have what they stand up in and nothing more, sure they've got a wide screen tv and the latest mobile phone but nothing I'd want in a SHTF world.

 

[grayghost668]

I wouldnt waste my time on residential houses, dont know about in the US but over here most people havent got half what I've got and most have nothing, unlike the sheeple I have been preparing for years, they probably have what they stand up in and nothing more, sure they've got a wide screen tv and the latest mobile phone but nothing I'd want in a SHTF world.

stores will be picked clean inside of a week ,,even now good luck finding ammo,,,,what are you going to find in a deserted store that has been picked over after a few weeks,,,,,,,,,,,,,guns ammo and food left behind will be on the list of things needed,,,,and I doubt they will be in any stores,,,,,

I have ranchers around me ,,,there will be equipment and about 400 head of cattle here,,,if everyone but me is gone,it's food for a lifetime

ok you guys have my $.02 worth now,,,,,,,

 

[BillMasen]

in what apocalypse hell are you going to be living where a boarded up & guarded homeowner will only have a 50-50 chance against some POS looter? - there's neighborhoods right now that a looter would have a 2% chance of living thru a property trespassing foray - much less tearing doors down ...

totally different set of circumstances between a SHTF and a honest-to-God apocylypse of a massive kill-off >>> probably talking 100-500 max out of a 5,000 count community - better be doing some regional society building to survive the long run and less of a beenie weenie looting thru some pantry ....

If you think a scavenger / looter/ salvager is always going to come strolling down the street up to your front door you are sadly mistaken. EG there are MILLIONS of former military dudes who know full well to watch and observe from afar, First to see if a property is inhabited , If Yes and they are not smart enough to go elsewhere they will watch and learn. They will choose when to attack, usually if you come outside for any reason then its you who gets the round to the head.. Its called Reconnaissance in force.

(1) This dude and many MANY like me will WATCH first, then calculate the risk, most half smart dudes will look elsewhere, but many will just wait to ambush the homeowner. (2) Mr and Mrs Homeown are also more likely to meet a GROUP of hostiles than a single stupid looter.

However if they want YOU and not your property they will just burn you out. Total locked down boarded up homesteads make good coffins and funeral pyres., especially if you dont have a concealled escape route.

The SMART prepper will know when to stand his ground and when to give ground. Only a fool will go looking for a firefight.

 

[BillMasen]

stores will be picked clean inside of a week ,,even now good luck finding ammo,,,,what are you going to find in a deserted store that has been picked over after a few weeks,,,,,,,,,,,,,guns ammo and food left behind will be on the list of things needed,,,,and I doubt they will be in any stores,,,,,

I have ranchers around me ,,,there will be equipment and about 400 head of cattle here,,,if everyone but me is gone,it's food for a lifetime

ok you guys have my $.02 worth now,,,,,,,

What is the obssession with guns and ammo?? Chances are anyone looking for supplies is looking for medicines, anti biotics, food stuffs, clothing, fuel, or even just shelter or a source of clean water.

 

[BillMasen]

you'll just have to brave that .223 to the brainpan to find out whether you're dealing with a "cannibal's" home that has been left totally unmolested - or - it's part of a protected neighborhood and POS looters are being shot for hog food ....

Good point, just like the home owner will also face the same round to the head if and when he ventures outside to collect stuff or do chores or even to patrol his perimeter, from the concealed rifleman reccying the house.

 

[bigpaul]

I've NEVER believed in the "Golden Horde" theory and most Squaddies will go home and look after their families, same with Police, the only ones actually at their post will probably be nurses and nursing auxilaries.
any looting over here is going to be city people looting city properties, stores to begin with then residential houses.
without fuel nobody is going to be walking very far, dont forget we have an obesity crisis in this country, they'll be waddling not walking.

 

[BillMasen]

I've NEVER believed in the "Golden Horde" theory and most Squaddies will go home and look after their families, same with Police, the only ones actually at their post will probably be nurses and nursing auxilaries.
any looting over here is going to be city people looting city properties, stores to begin with then residential houses.
without fuel nobody is going to be walking very far, dont forget we have an obesity crisis in this country, they'll be waddling not walking.

I'm refering to EX forces, the millions of former military guys n gals NOT the serving armed forces ( who I spose could go looting on their way home after going AWOL )

 

[bigpaul]

yeah but they are spread out all over the country, not all in one place, and have ordinary jobs and ordinary families.

 

[grayghost668]

What is the obssession with guns and ammo?? Chances are anyone looking for supplies is looking for medicines, anti biotics, food stuffs, clothing, fuel, or even just shelter or a source of clean water.

once the stores are depleted,,,just how do you plan on taking wild game for the table or protecting yourself and family from wandering gangs without a gun or ammo for it,,,,,,are you going to whip out your trusty straw and shoot spitballs at them

 

[BillMasen]

once the stores are depleted,,,just how do you plan on taking wild game for the table or protecting yourself and family from wandering gangs without a gun or ammo for it,,,,,,are you going to whip out your trusty straw and shoot spitballs at them

The same as those of us do now. Reloading,snaring,trapping, netting, fishing, slingshot, air rifle, hunting bow or grow the critters in cages, and you should have the ammo you need already. its called PREparing for a reason.

 

[grayghost668]

The same as those of us do now. Reloading,snaring,trapping, netting, fishing, slingshot, air rifle, hunting bow or grow the critters in cages, and you should have the ammo you need already. its called PREparing for a reason.

,after SHTF it will be a war zone it will bring the worse out in everyone,,,, no one is coming over for just a cup of tea

 

[BillMasen]

,after SHTF it will be a war zone it will bring the worse out in everyone,,,, no one is coming over for just a cup of tea

What has that got to do with finding food??? which is what you asked about, but none the less my reply is the same. You should have the ammo you need already.