A Bicycle Ride That Almost Killed Me, and a Mock Bugout With My Son

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The Parahunter

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So, I've been considering utilizing a bicycle as a secondary or quick-scout bug out vehicle, and have been trying to work through some of the logistics. As part of doing so, I took a fairly serious bike ride along a cultured trail we have here near-by, but I got in a little over my head (not surprisingly, I suppose.) You can read about my little adventure by going to my blog, here. I invite all manner of constructive criticism and words of encouragement.

Additionally, my son and I went on a small mock-bug out to a friends house. My son is 11 and growing more and more interested in outdoorsmanship and survivalism, but he's more of a video-game playing kid so I went easy on him. At first he just thought it would be cool to hike to my friends house (a 4+ mile trip that I've made on bicycle before) but when we got about a mile or so down the road he was done. I'd insisted we take our BOB's to see how well we'd fare. I wanted the experience to be fun and educational for him so I didn't drive him as if it were life-and-death. I monitored his water-intake and made him increase when I noticed he started getting pretty red-faced. I also let him choose how far we went, though did encourage him to push a little more.

The exercise was a success, I'd say, however we didn't make it to our intended point. I would say our first success started with a failure...his water-bladder (from a hydra-pac) broke and he was losing H2O. He pulled out his neoprene bottle and we immediately transferred the contents of the bladder...very smart thinking on his part and I complimented him on the redundancy. Then along the way I had him point out various resources we discovered, such as a discarded aluminum can (boiling water), a milk-jug in good shape (cut the top off and invert for use as a funnel/water collection), and even a bottle of water that was still filled about halfway with water (of course I would purify it with some tablets I have in my own pack before either of us would drink such.)

We had fun, though we got some 'look's by passers-by. We're looking to go even farther next time...another benefit of not driving him too much the first time. He knows he has control and has a keener sense of what he's up against the next go-around.

Peace.

J.
 

MSTA57

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Sounds like it was a good day out even tho you didn't make it as far as you wanted. It still got him of the game centre for the day.
Like you said at least he knows that be can make it further next time
 

WilliamAshley

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Hmm, I'm not sure the extent of child abuse but he didn't faint.

Did he have a hat or head covering?

None the less just letting him quit will not build his psychology.

None the less 10km should be doable for an 11 year old. Better luck next time.
If you average 3km/h that is still like only a 3 hour walk.

Just putting everything on and going is a little fool hardy though, I'd suggest graduating any weight you are carrying.


And remember hats are important, a cold wet cloth may be useful too.

wearing white clothing can also be useful as opposed to dark colours. Wearing the right type of clothing can be useful also.

You are where you are at none the less.... taking a break isn't the end of the world but remember to get back up after you take a break. Take a break rehydrate, cool down in the shade, have some good carbs to get your atp back up... eat a good carb meal the night before you go. Well hydrate yourself leading up to this. people ideally could drink a couple litres of water every day . Thata is 5 or 6 tall glasses of water every day. You also don't want to be full when you go. You want to have stuff in your tummy but you want to be well this may mean nibbling, having a good soup rather than a meaty or grainy meal right before and eat when you stop for the evening or night so you have time to digest it.

There are lots of ways to improve your energy capacity and ability to cool down.

You could even consider a bit of tea or coffee before, but avoid sugary juices and pop, junk food, candy, or sweets in large amounts before setting out on a hike because you will drop off fast.

Having the occassional candy on the way may be ok, but a lot of candy is not good.

Note that some candy for every km or mile is a way of carroting the horse so to speak. Every 100 steps a gummy bear etc.. or giving a prise when you reach the end. These might boost psychologial incentive. None the less things like a cracker will be best because it converts into sugar fairly quickly and is a carb.

Its not the body that limits if you arn't immobile and unconscious, it is the mind.

I'll be heading out for my 300km hike before too long now... and these are all things I will be looking to since once I'm out 100km it is 100km back. There is no turning back, only do.

Part of this hike though is setting rest spots and camp spots... every 10km or so. Places to get water, places to eat lunch, places to sleep.

Oh and good footwear can be important too. You want a good shoe or boot designed for distance not unsupported shoes, sandals etc.. you can use these but they arn't ideal.
 

Trapper

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Parahunter, kudos to you. That is a great day even though you did not make your intended destination! If more parents did exactly what your doing with your son we would have less kids in trouble and they would be much more self reliant.

Hmm, I'm not sure the extent of child abuse but he didn't faint.
Ashley, you have once again proven yourself to be the village idiot. To even to begin to make that comment is unthinkable. It is obvious that you don't know what an 11 year old is capable of. A father going on a walk with his son is far from child abuse. As a kid I spent plenty of summers bailing hay in 90+F heat in the sun or in the hay mow. We put up 1,000-1500 bails a day for a week. That is not even considered child abuse. Again you give advice that is not wanted, needed or warranted. Give it a break! Its time for you to go for a walk.......and don't come back.
 

The Parahunter

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To address some of WilliamAshley's comments - we both had hats and sunglasses and had applied sunscreen prior. He did get a little red-faced which is why I let him dictate when to turn back and made him drink more water on the way back. He was coherent, thoughtful, conversational, and steady-of-step. At no point did I believe he was going to pass out or such.

As far as your little list of things to do...light clothing and such, well, since it was a bug-out test, I didn't want to spend too much time snacking on candy or perusing our wardrobes for the best clothing prior to going out. We went off of only what we had prepped in our bags, which turned out to be fine.

J.
 

Colt 1911

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Parahunter, kudos to you. That is a great day even though you did not make your intended destination! If more parents did exactly what your doing with your son we would have less kids in trouble and they would be much more self reliant.



Ashley, you have once again proven yourself to be the village idiot. To even to begin to make that comment is unthinkable. It is obvious that you don't know what an 11 year old is capable of. A father going on a walk with his son is far from child abuse. As a kid I spent plenty of summers bailing hay in 90+F heat in the sun or in the hay mow. We put up 1,000-1500 bails a day for a week. That is not even considered child abuse. Again you give advice that is not wanted, needed or warranted. Give it a break! Its time for you to go for a walk.......and don't come back.

Yeah he sealed the deal on those comments, sorry Parahunter stupid people are just stupid !!
 

The Parahunter

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Yeah he sealed the deal on those comments, sorry Parahunter stupid people are just stupid !!

No worries, Colt. I've been contributing content to various forums on the 'Net for about six years now and am well accustomed to any number of reactions, good and bad, to my posts. When you have open forums like this, you will deal with unlimited personality types...and that's a good thing at the day's end. :)

J.
 

Danil54grl

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I think that it is a great idea to have practice Bug Outs. Do it every once in a while and he will eventually build up and make it. Just keep after it. . . little by little. It is great exercise and a way to get him outside and away from his gaming! My son loves those video games too and now that he is 21 and living on his own, I don't have much influence on that part anymore.
 

Chicknladee

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Parahunter...good for you for getting your son out for a small mock bug-out and putting him in control of the pace and the distance...hopefully he gained a little confidence and had a good time with you.

I read your blog about your "near-death" experience, lol...when I first started reading, I didn't know how LONG the trail was! But I was surprised at how little water you did bring with you to start with. Me, I'm always drinking water and that just didn't seem like nearly enough...but I'm glad you survived! You learned a lot of valuable lessons with little harm done to yourself!
 

WilliamAshley

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To address some of WilliamAshley's comments - we both had hats and sunglasses and had applied sunscreen prior. He did get a little red-faced which is why I let him dictate when to turn back and made him drink more water on the way back. He was coherent, thoughtful, conversational, and steady-of-step. At no point did I believe he was going to pass out or such.

As far as your little list of things to do...light clothing and such, well, since it was a bug-out test, I didn't want to spend too much time snacking on candy or perusing our wardrobes for the best clothing prior to going out. We went off of only what we had prepped in our bags, which turned out to be fine.


J.
I wasn't suggesting you were abusing him, I was suggesting my suggestions could lead to abuse, because you arn't driving him hard enough.

Don't take it the wrong way, you just misread my entire post and fixated on the first sentence.

Good to hear you had sun protection.

I'd consider the psychological carrot thing if you can. As kids may not be able to understand accomplishment of reaching a point, but they can understand the benefits of getting candy every 100 steps and whatnot.

Red in the face really isn't a big deal if he is still breathing ok. It just means the body is cooling itself down.

Just remember to bring water and be hydrated. Nothing is wrong with being read in the face.

None the less its your kid right.

IMO you have lots of room to improve, however unless you go to harvard failure does not lead to success :)

i'm refering to harvard business. btw..
http://blogs.hbr.org/sutton/2007/06/learning_from_success_and_fail.html


none the less you can probably do more... this is though preparation. injuries at that distance are almost impossible unless you have too much weight. If he is getting too tired sure stop and take a break but get back up and head out again. you did your thing but if you are concerned about it I wouldn't be.. unless he has high blood pressure as an adolescent. And only more exercise is going to help that. The more you exercise the lower your heart rate gets the more you do endurance training.

He is capable of soo much more, just make sure you are promoting a healthy psychology of accomplishment. Mediocrity and complacency arn't overly beneficial. And giving up and giving in isn't going to help.

but hell something is better than nothing right.


btw there are 5280 feet in a mile.. so chances are you may a walk maybe 2 or 3 feet every step. one mile is thus about 25 candies. Which for four miles would be 100 candies. Now if you did 1000 steps that would be 10 candies... none the less there could be alternates to candies.



As odd as it seems 100 gummy bears would be 900 calories approximately. Which is a lot. as your exercise 4 miles taking about an hour and a half will only be 250 calories. So then with that in mind to be calory nuetral on gummy bears that would be about 25 gummy or about 1 every 250 steps to be calory neutral. If you think about it 25 or 30 gummy bears isn't a whole whole lot.

Starting with gum could be even better as it helps with saliva flow and will last longer chewing. Then perhaps a hard candy to suck on,, etc.. mix it up so they last but are still a nice Pavlovian positive reinforcement.

Its not just about marching 4 miles it should be about a fun time out. not the walking but the adventure. imo. perhaps stop to teach him about a plant or pick some berries, plant some tree seeds or make an event of it.

The mind starts challenging the situation when it fixates and evaluated it not be be beneficial, that is the whole conflict theory aspect. It is about pros and cons. If you stack the pros beyond the cons you will achieve your goals because it is good for you. If it isn't good for you you have no reason to.

For this type of thing postiive reinforcement is best IMO.. negative reinforcement is generally only used to destroy prior pathways through stress hormones, which then effect memory function... but since this is development having a positive development means it will be a sought for activity..

By allowing him to quit you are only encouraging the reward for quiting, this will not help psychological development of going the distance.
 

Chicknladee

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William, providing incentives of CANDY is absolutely NOT the correct thing to do to ANYONE! As a society, we have enough trouble using food as fuel but using it as a reward...that is partly how we got to be such an overweight society. Parahunter's son isn't something you dangle a carrot in front of to get them to move. He is a human being.
 

WilliamAshley

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William, providing incentives of CANDY is absolutely NOT the correct thing to do to ANYONE! As a society, we have enough trouble using food as fuel but using it as a reward...that is partly how we got to be such an overweight society. Parahunter's son isn't something you dangle a carrot in front of to get them to move. He is a human being.
I'm not overweight and I like Candy. I run long distance and hike with no problem.

I disagree. Food is good. Using food as a tool is good. Abuse of food is a problem. However eating 250 calories and exercising 250 calories, will be a net benefit. Frankly you will loose more weight because even more calories will be consumed with tissue repair, and other cellular processes. I go jogging at night and I am burning more calories in my sleep as a result.

Glucose is not bad if you are active. The issue is when you eat junk and arn't active.

So no sorry food is not bad, abuse of food is bad.

There is absolutely nothing unhealthy about eating glucose while exercising, as long as you are hydrated.

As I am into body building.. I know that glucose and protein are "recommended" for energy recovery and tissue recovery during workout.

Not only is this NOT unhealthy.. it is frankly VERY healthy, and will contribute to overall health and wellbeing.
Here is more info on you on workout nutrition.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/post_workout_carbs.htm

Bear in mind cortisol is the "negative reinforcement" drug in the neurochemistry. You want to limit cortisol output as much as you can, and you want to increase seratonin production, and likewise melatonin production. Melatonin is produce naturally from good sleep paterns, while seratonin is in part created by the breakdown of melatonin. Cortisol will inhibit seratonin, so this is why keeping moderate levels of glucose during workout is good because you don't fall back on you carbs as an energy source, which thus require the use of cortisol for synthesis. While doing this a little is ok, having glucose available to some extent will be better than completely taping your reserves.

This is basic health and nutrition. The reason why americans are often fat is beause they led sedentary lifestyles stationary work, lack of an hour or more of exercise daily, and eating high fat foods. American diet was for farmers, but once you stop farming that is it.

As you should notice though, limiting glucose intake to a reasonable level is important to prevent hyperglycemia. My suggested levels at the 250 cal level are not extreme if spaced over the hour and a half. Wolfing down 250 cals of sugars in one go like a slice of pie is far more unhealthy. When glucose ISNT used like eating sugary stuff while not exercising the body converts it into fat.. which is harder to get at since carbs will be drawn on first. This is why my suggestion is much healthier because it is when demand for sugar exists, as opposed to when there is no demand for sugar.

I can't support your opinion Chickenladee it isn't based on nutritional sciences.

It is unfortunate you don't support "Training" I think helping people improve their performance and output is good. Instruction and development, that being parental guidance includes assisting children accomplish growth, advance, and improvement.

I have no idea where you are drawing, providing for a healthy training program is somehow inhumane. You make no sense whatsoever.

You are basically saying letting your kids waste their lives is good for them. No sorry try again.

Hell though if they are your kids do what you want with them. You know in a worse case scenario if I were their teacher at a school, I'd get you all upset for teaching them something through methods of a instruction. People don't learn by drooling staring at a wall, very much.

Like I said though, your kids your parenting. Just my opinion. Not going to say you arn't entitled to yours.

But I have my reasons for thinking what I do and your position hasn't changed that.


The key imo is not forcing people to do stuff against their will, I'm not like that. But encouraging people to do things for their benefit even if they can't see that benefit is beneficial. Now manipulating people contrary to their wishes or their interests is wrong, imo. But if a carrot works use it, as long as it is healthy and not causing harm both physically and psychologically. I don't see where the absence of a net benefit is in my position is.
 

Chicknladee

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I'm not overweight and I like Candy. I run long distance and hike with no problem.
I wasn't talking about YOU using candy as an incentive for YOU! Everything isn't about YOU. I was talking about anyone using candy as an incentive or reward for someone else to LURE them into doing something. Child molesters/abductors use candy ...haven't you ever heard the saying "Don't take candy from STRANGERS"? You are one of the strangest I've ever encountered!

What I was saying was that using FOOD/CANDY as an incentive or reward is WRONG. Food (and candy to a lesser degree) is FUEL for the body. Yes, it is a TOOL but it shouldn't be a REWARD or carrot dangled from a string to get someone/something to do something.

As I am into body building.. I know that glucose and protein are "recommended" for energy recovery and tissue recovery during workout.

Not only is this NOT unhealthy.. it is frankly VERY healthy, and will contribute to overall health and wellbeing.
Again, I wasn't talking about YOU or what you do. I was referring to your suggestion to use candy as an INCENTIVE for Parahunter to encourage his son to walk more by feeding him candy every few steps. You also don't need to quote bodybuilding websites to me. I'm perfectly capable of finding that same information by searching the web.

I can't support your opinion Chickenladee it isn't based on nutritional sciences.
I wasn't basing my chastisement of you on science. It's all about your blatant inexperience with people and children.

It is unfortunate you don't support "Training"
Please go reread what I posted. Nowhere did I state that I don't support "Training". I don't believe that Parahunter was trying to TRAIN his son...they were practicing a mock bug-out (and getting a little exercise as a bonus)

You are basically saying letting your kids waste their lives is good for them.
Please go reread what I posted again. Nowhere did I say or imply that he should let his son waste his life. You are assuming things and you know the saying "when you assume" you make an ### out of U and (not) me.

So, I think you should keep your advice (based solely on science) and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.
 

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