the dog whistle got blown - new riot & protest excuse - call out the ANTIFA & BLM troops !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Roe v Wade
- Thread starter Danil54grl
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The irony here is if this were a 5-4 decision, it wasn’t a done deal until the leak and now none of the more conservative justices may change their minds without compromising the courts integrity. In fact, Robert’s probably sided with the liberals, again, but he is way more concerned with the perception of the court than the Constitution and may turn this into a 6-3 decision.
Does anyone else wonder abut the timing of this announcement? You USA dudes have drought in some parts, really cold weather in others, supply chain issues, food processing plant issues, fertiliser price issues, truck and tractor part problems ... and now they stir up all this. Right before the summer - remember summer 2020 and all the so-called 'protests' ... this could be like deja vu all over again.
I am sure they knew fully well exactly what types of reactions news like this would get from some quarters - it is almost like it was planned.
What better way to get the army on the streets than unbridled 'protests' with half the city burning?
Now, if I may be excused, my tin-foil is getting thin.
I am sure they knew fully well exactly what types of reactions news like this would get from some quarters - it is almost like it was planned.
What better way to get the army on the streets than unbridled 'protests' with half the city burning?
Now, if I may be excused, my tin-foil is getting thin.
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The whole thing is being overblown by liberals.
The States will decide if they want abortion or not.
They can drive to a neighboring state and still kill their babies.
They will have riverboat abortions setup before it over with
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Thats kinda where I stand. I'm fine with the pill,I'm fine with the morning after pill.
But I draw the line when it comes to late term abortion.
The idea of pulling a kid out in pieces is just abhorrent to me.From what I understand women can tell when they're pregnant long before it reaches the point of full term.
UK here, not an expert on any of the USA dudes stuff.
If they overturn a SC ruling does it not get kicked back to each individual state to decide what they wanna do? Some states might vote to keep things as they are in their area, and other states may wish to change things. So not a total ban by a long way.
I don't know if this is of any interest to you guys but in the UK news this is being misrepresented as an abortion 'ban' - total rubbish, designed to get the blue-haired, bathroom confused types in a rage.
Good luck out there, friends.
If they overturn a SC ruling does it not get kicked back to each individual state to decide what they wanna do? Some states might vote to keep things as they are in their area, and other states may wish to change things. So not a total ban by a long way.
I don't know if this is of any interest to you guys but in the UK news this is being misrepresented as an abortion 'ban' - total rubbish, designed to get the blue-haired, bathroom confused types in a rage.
Good luck out there, friends.
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You're exactly right.
It'll be up to the individual state.
And states could change their position at any time if the population of that state demanded it.
Seems to me to be a none issue.
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Yep...
Just like casinos in Missouri. The boats never move but somehow it makes gambling legal.
Oddcaliber
A True Doomsday Prepper
Making something illegal won't change people's minds. They will still find a way just like criminals obtain guns.
BACoN1979
Active Member
Hate breeds hate
Kevin L
A True Doomsday Prepper
As a medical person, I see abortion as a horribly nasty . . . yet neccesary evil that's sometimes required for medical and/or social reasons.
I'm surprised that conservative people campaign against abortion on religious grounds.
It was only until about 130 - 150 years ago that abortion was considered a religious morality issue. Midwives (whose services often included abortion) routinely advertised their services in all churches (including the Catholic church) on the community bulletin board . . . although the ads were very euphemistic, to better preserve decorum. During these times, early abortion was considered a private family matter to be addressed between a woman, her husband, and her midwife.
So, one can actually argue that tolerance toward early abortion is actually a more traditional family value than the rabid
pro-life beliefs of today.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...QQFnoECAsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2s5u_eE230dYv-pcEaa0-Q[/URL]
It's my understanding that the only passage about abortion in the King James Bible is a passage that a man must pay a fine if he strikes a pregnant woman, and she miscarries (I may be wrong, as I'm not a Biblical scholar).
As I've gotten older, I've come to realize that the world is not black and white, and that the absolutes of morality that I believed in when I was younger often don't function or make sense in the real world.
People may get the impression that my moral values are a matter of convienence, but nothing is further from the truth. I've found that that it's more important to have principles and ideals guiding my morality, as opposed to "hard and fast" absolute rules.
It's very difficult for me to take an absolute stand against abortion when I've seen horribly deformed infants, pregnant 10 year old girls (often impregnated by their brothers or fathers), and so forth.
I'm surprised that conservative people campaign against abortion on religious grounds.
It was only until about 130 - 150 years ago that abortion was considered a religious morality issue. Midwives (whose services often included abortion) routinely advertised their services in all churches (including the Catholic church) on the community bulletin board . . . although the ads were very euphemistic, to better preserve decorum. During these times, early abortion was considered a private family matter to be addressed between a woman, her husband, and her midwife.
So, one can actually argue that tolerance toward early abortion is actually a more traditional family value than the rabid
pro-life beliefs of today.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...QQFnoECAsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2s5u_eE230dYv-pcEaa0-Q[/URL]
It's my understanding that the only passage about abortion in the King James Bible is a passage that a man must pay a fine if he strikes a pregnant woman, and she miscarries (I may be wrong, as I'm not a Biblical scholar).
As I've gotten older, I've come to realize that the world is not black and white, and that the absolutes of morality that I believed in when I was younger often don't function or make sense in the real world.
People may get the impression that my moral values are a matter of convienence, but nothing is further from the truth. I've found that that it's more important to have principles and ideals guiding my morality, as opposed to "hard and fast" absolute rules.
It's very difficult for me to take an absolute stand against abortion when I've seen horribly deformed infants, pregnant 10 year old girls (often impregnated by their brothers or fathers), and so forth.
Original Hippocratic Oath:
I swear by Apollo the physician, and Asclepius, and Hygieia and Panacea and all the gods and goddesses as my witnesses, that, according to my ability and judgement, I will keep this Oath and this contract:
To hold him who taught me this art equally dear to me as my parents, to be a partner in life with him, and to fulfill his needs when required; to look upon his offspring as equals to my own siblings, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or contract; and that by the set rules, lectures, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to students bound by this contract and having sworn this Oath to the law of medicine, but to no others.
I will use those dietary regimens which will benefit my patients according to my greatest ability and judgement, and I will do no harm or injustice to them.
I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.
In purity and according to divine law will I carry out my life and my art.
I will not use the knife, even upon those suffering from stones, but I will leave this to those who are trained in this craft.
Into whatever homes I go, I will enter them for the benefit of the sick, avoiding any voluntary act of impropriety or corruption, including the seduction of women or men, whether they are free men or slaves.
Whatever I see or hear in the lives of my patients, whether in connection with my professional practice or not, which ought not to be spoken of outside, I will keep secret, as considering all such things to be private.
So long as I maintain this Oath faithfully and without corruption, may it be granted to me to partake of life fully and the practice of my art, gaining the respect of all men for all time. However, should I transgress this Oath and violate it, may the opposite be my fate.
I swear by Apollo the physician, and Asclepius, and Hygieia and Panacea and all the gods and goddesses as my witnesses, that, according to my ability and judgement, I will keep this Oath and this contract:
To hold him who taught me this art equally dear to me as my parents, to be a partner in life with him, and to fulfill his needs when required; to look upon his offspring as equals to my own siblings, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or contract; and that by the set rules, lectures, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to students bound by this contract and having sworn this Oath to the law of medicine, but to no others.
I will use those dietary regimens which will benefit my patients according to my greatest ability and judgement, and I will do no harm or injustice to them.
I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.
In purity and according to divine law will I carry out my life and my art.
I will not use the knife, even upon those suffering from stones, but I will leave this to those who are trained in this craft.
Into whatever homes I go, I will enter them for the benefit of the sick, avoiding any voluntary act of impropriety or corruption, including the seduction of women or men, whether they are free men or slaves.
Whatever I see or hear in the lives of my patients, whether in connection with my professional practice or not, which ought not to be spoken of outside, I will keep secret, as considering all such things to be private.
So long as I maintain this Oath faithfully and without corruption, may it be granted to me to partake of life fully and the practice of my art, gaining the respect of all men for all time. However, should I transgress this Oath and violate it, may the opposite be my fate.
Bravo! Very smooth...citing examples of uncommon and extreme depravity to justify the routine extermination of millions.
...”neccesary evil that's sometimes required for...social reasons”
For real? How about let’s put an end to the killings of millions and then we can talk about the dozens of extreme examples.
Danil54grl
Top Poster
The fact is that the numbers of sexual abuse, like rape and incest is actually rare and then a medical extreme that actually effects a mother's life is also rare. I have seen the stats. Still will NOT change my mind about abortions after the 1st term.
Kevin L
A True Doomsday Prepper
I apologize for stirring up needless controversy on a conservative website. With the understanding that I'm not being sarcastic, I sincerely apologize for any insensitivity.
Danil54grl
Top Poster
You didn't stir up any thing. I know you see extreme cases being a first responder.
BACoN1979
Active Member
I am in no way stirred. I have no problem with your suggestion if it were only limited to these examples you give. Abortion is being used as birth control now. How on earth can this be okay when we have so many other types of contraception widely and easily available? I have seen statisctics about women after abortion and the drug and alcohol levels can get very high, so as the depression too.
There are types who will always take the most extreme examples and do the bleeding heart thing - the extreme examples are not common.
I worked with a woman who was raped at age 15, was too traumatised to tell her folks and gave birth to a daughter that she had given for adoption. The woman is fine, although she had some issues about not feeling safe, the daughter is now full grown and happy with her adoptive parents. She now has a nice relationship with her birth mother and they see each other.
I also knew an older guy who had been born after his grandfather raped his mother when she was a teen. His mental health was not so great but his kids were normal and healthy. he had a lot of anger issues which I think are understandable. As I say, he was an older chap and they did not have shrinks and stuff back then.
Yes, none of this is an ideal situation and I would not wish this stuff on my own worse enemy but it tragically does happen. Many go the abortion route and some do not. Birth is not always the worst case scenario.
Right, now let us talk about the chat pages that are there for couples to discuss their abortion fetishes, shall we? Yes ...couples who make babies intentionally and then bond over the destruction of that life. They get a sexual thrill from it. Again a tiny minority.
Should we as a so-called civilised society even be indulging this type of crap?
What is so wrong with contraception or abstinence? Why do people seem to lack any sense of self control and basic dignity? We all know empathy went to Hell years ago.
There are types who will always take the most extreme examples and do the bleeding heart thing - the extreme examples are not common.
I worked with a woman who was raped at age 15, was too traumatised to tell her folks and gave birth to a daughter that she had given for adoption. The woman is fine, although she had some issues about not feeling safe, the daughter is now full grown and happy with her adoptive parents. She now has a nice relationship with her birth mother and they see each other.
I also knew an older guy who had been born after his grandfather raped his mother when she was a teen. His mental health was not so great but his kids were normal and healthy. he had a lot of anger issues which I think are understandable. As I say, he was an older chap and they did not have shrinks and stuff back then.
Yes, none of this is an ideal situation and I would not wish this stuff on my own worse enemy but it tragically does happen. Many go the abortion route and some do not. Birth is not always the worst case scenario.
Right, now let us talk about the chat pages that are there for couples to discuss their abortion fetishes, shall we? Yes ...couples who make babies intentionally and then bond over the destruction of that life. They get a sexual thrill from it. Again a tiny minority.
Should we as a so-called civilised society even be indulging this type of crap?
What is so wrong with contraception or abstinence? Why do people seem to lack any sense of self control and basic dignity? We all know empathy went to Hell years ago.
Kevin L
A True Doomsday Prepper
Again, I'm throwing ideas out here, and I don't want to alienate anyone on the forum, as everyone has been very accepting and nice.
I think it's utterly reprehensible if a couple has a shared sexual fetish about abortion, and that they deliberately get pregnant just to have one. I belive that this behavior is so pathologic that these people should be committed to a mental health facility, and compelled to use birth control.
That having been said, I'd like to question the religious and moral basis of the objections against abortion . . . and please keep in mind that I was raised in an intensely liberal household, and that--despite this background--I have an open mind.
If I may digress for a moment, I'll ask you guys to consider a 19th century doctor named Semmelweis. He discovered (before there was a germ theory of disease) that washing one's hands with a diluted solution of bleach and water prevented infection and death when he worked as an obstetrician and helped women give birth. In many instances, he cut deaths from post partum infection by more than 95%.
My point in bringing him up in the context of a discussion about abortion is to mention that he was routinely denounced by most of the religious leaders who were aware of his work, as God decreed that women be punished by having their pains greatly multiplied in childbirth as punishment for the sin of tempting Adam with forbidden fruit. There were very infuential religious groups that demanded that Semmelweis be censored, and even imprisoned for upsetting the natural order, as hand washing to protect a woman's life (and, incidentally, a baby's life) is against God's will.
A couple of generations before Semmelwies, it was considered sacreligious to put lightning rods on churches, as lightning was God's punishment. The church steeple is often the highest point in town, so the bell ringer was often killed . . . when only a steel rod and grounding cable are all that's needed to protect life. A church in Italy exploded when it was hit by lightning, as the government felt that the church was the safest place to store gunpowder . . . as God would never strike this church with lightning, as the locals were very religious.
How are these points relevant to abortion?
There are many times when religion has had to modify its message and principles to account for increased knowledge . . . especially in the sciences.
Religion had to accomodate hand washing, lightning rods, an Earth that goes around the Sun, the Big Bang, and so on.
How is abortion different? If religion adjusted it's thinking on the importance of hand washing prior to helping a woman give birth (and everyone benefits), then why is it wrong to expect religion to modify its stance on abortion? Especially since this religious aversion to abortion only seems like it's about 120 - 160 years old?
Again, not stirring the pot to be a troll, but only putting out the ideas that were drilled into me since I was very young and growing up in an intensely liberal household.
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