why?

[Gazrok]

Why are sunspots dark? Shouldn't they be brighter? The inside being hotter?

Sunspots are actually cooler, due to the intense magnetic fields in them.

How can we use a telescope to look back in time? At another Galaxy I get, it takes light time to travel here, so we see old light. But back towards the beginning of the universe? The first thing to leave an explosion is light. Next, blast wave front, the air transmitted shockwave, and finally, debris.

You seem to have explained this for yourself. But yes, though light is fast, the distances in space are just hard to fathom. So yeah, we have ways of figuring out how "old" the light is. (though often, I really question whether or not this is always correct).

If we are standing on the congealed debris, that light is WAY long gone.

No, what CAUSED it, could be gone, but that light is still traveling our way, even billions of years later.

Why did we all evolve from one thing? If one thing could crawl out of the ocean and flop around, why couldn't lots of different things? I don't buy evolution, it makes no sense to me.

Lots of things did crawl out, and evolve, etc. Here's a pretty decent article on it that may help:
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/evolution-out-of-the-sea/

Why do we have stone tools and fur ponchos for most of human history, then wham! Sumeria and sophisticated technology and math and the oldest known written story? Cave art aside.

Technological advancement isn't linear, it's exponential. With more and more advances, new ones happen faster and faster. If you would have told me as a kid, that I could carry around something in my pocket, that could answer any question I might have, allow me to talk to someone on the other side of the planet, take instant photos, , and have a library with me, etc., I would have assumed you were mad.

Now, we don't even think twice about it.

 

[Gazrok]

It's almost like all of this was put together on purpose and by design! Go figure... (or just read your Bible!)

Oddly, I don't rule out the idea of intelligent design (as it seems neither more or less absurd than random chance). But to assume we are the only ones....what a waste of space!

 

[Gazrok]

Basically, whether physics, etc. I have an issue with the two extremes of infinity and nothingness. They really don't seem to exist in the observable Universe, yet they keep wanting to use these two concepts....when really, the REAL answer when these two are used, is that they simply don't know.

It's a cop out.

Like what happens at the center of a black hole, or how big really IS the Universe.

Well, if you walked the Earth's surface, it would SEEM infinite, but eventually, you'd be back where you started. I have a feeling most things in reality are much the same.

 

[TexasFreedom]

SGS,

I've had the 'evolution makes no sense when you apply science' discussion here. Too many here are deer-in-headlights stuck on evolution... or will not accept that there is one true God and Creator.

For example, intelligent design. If someone says an alien created us, my challenge would be who created them? Eventually you run out of aliens... but for those who reject God, they have to find another viable (in their view) option.

 

[Gazrok]

Yes, but it does not have to be YOUR God.... That's the issue, when folks have the deer-in-headlights (as you put it) view on it being THEIR God as the source.

As for evolution. Look at your fingernails. Look at the appendix. Look at our vestigial tails. To deny evolution is simply denying the evidence all around us. I know we'll have to agree to disagree on it....but evolution does not necessarily have to be exclusive of intelligent design. Such an intelligence could have set things in motion as well, of course. I personally don't put much stock in the idea, but I can't deny the possibility either.

I just have an issue with folks who insist their God over another, when all are equally just as plausible or just as absurd, to an individual depending on their beliefs... (i.e. to a true believer, others' Gods are absurd imposters).

 

[TexasFreedom]

G, I know we're getting off topic, but a question for you.

Can God lie? Does God lie?

And again, when you say 'evolution', please clarify if you mean microevolution or macroevolution. I don't know a single person who denies microevolution. A greyhound has the same ancestors as the great dane or the boston terrier. Macro evolution is when a chicken lays an egg and a mouse comes out of it. Yes, that's a bit absurd of an example, but it explains the gist of it. New body functions created out of nothing.

 

[DrHenley]

When asked how random events can lead to the synthesis of a complex biological molecule like an enzyme, evolutionists like to bring up the "Infinite Monkey Theorem" which goes something like this: If you give a monkey a typewriter, and he types random keys for an infinitely long time, eventually he'll type a Shakespearean sonnet.

This is right up my alley because it involves two areas in which I have some expertise: Enzymes, and statistics.

OK, let's break that down.

Shakespearean Sonnet #106 has 582 characters, including punctuation. The total number of different characters is 31, which includes the alphabet plus comma, period, space, semicolon, and apostrophe.
Alpha-amylase, an enzyme I worked with, has 496 amino acids. There are 21 different amino acids. In order for an enzyme to fold correctly, the amino acids have to be in exactly the correct order. So the "Infinite Monkey Theorem" is roughly appropriate.

Amino acids come in two flavors: Levorotatory (L), and Dextrorotatory (D)

Letters of the alphabet come in two flavors: lower case, and upper case.

Enzymes are composed of almost all levorotatory amino acids. This corresponds to a sonnet needed to have the correct case for each letter. In the analysis we'll ignore this aspect however, just to make the math a little easier.

Now, we obviously need more than one monkey with a typewriter if we want to approximate enzyme synthesis which can't just be allowed to occur in one spot, but everywhere there are amino acids that can combine.
So let's cover the surface of the earth with monkeys and typewriters. One monkey and typewriter for each square foot of the surface of the earth. That's 5,490,000,000,000,000 monkeys with typewriters. (5.49 quadrillion)

And let's say they can each type one letter per second.

With 31 different characters, the possible number of 582 character sequences of 31 unique characters is 31^582, or approximately 9.39x10^867

For a single monkey, the probability of typing Sonnet #106 in a single try is 1 in 9.39x10^867
It takes 582 seconds to type 582 characters, which is 9.7 minutes. So if we let the monkey type for an infinite amount of time, he will, on average, type Sonnet #106 once every 6.93x10^862 years.

But we don't just have one monkey, we have 5.49 quadrillion monkeys. So if we put them all to work, we can get Sonnet #106 once every 1.26x10^847 years.

The oldest estimate of the age of the universe is 13.8 billion years. That's 1.38x10^10 years.

So the probability of our 5.49 quadrillion monkeys typing Sonnet #106 JUST ONCE during the entire age of the universe is one in 4.7x10^828

Or, to put that in perspective: One chance in 470,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

In other words...

*Somebody* didn't do the math...

 

[jontte]

nature have time,all the time in the world...and I understand some you dudes and dudettes belive,some even belive the book is nothing but true,written
by man,different versions over centuries,but okay,have nothing against it,don't try to take it away from anyone...
what I find strange indeed is,if I say I think and belive in the evolutinary process,some,not all, comes and try to convert me to think into creationism...
any particular reason for that??

 

[DrHenley]

I don't quite fall into either camp completely jontte. You could say I am a "Creationist" because I believe God created. Exactly how, I don't know. The Bible just has a very rough outline that I believe is true, but it uses some "literary devices" to communicate to audiences that knew nothing about things like genetics and geological ages. So it communicated in their language in ways they could understand.

 

[user 5745]

Yes, but it does not have to be YOUR God.... That's the issue, when folks have the deer-in-headlights (as you put it) view on it being THEIR God as the source.

As for evolution. Look at your fingernails. Look at the appendix. Look at our vestigial tails. To deny evolution is simply denying the evidence all around us. I know we'll have to agree to disagree on it....but evolution does not necessarily have to be exclusive of intelligent design. Such an intelligence could have set things in motion as well, of course. I personally don't put much stock in the idea, but I can't deny the possibility either.

I just have an issue with folks who insist their God over another, when all are equally just as plausible or just as absurd, to an individual depending on their beliefs... (i.e. to a true believer, others' Gods are absurd imposters).

Yep, everyone's an atheist about other people's god(s). I'm fascinated by the notion that Judaism and those Christian sects that adhere to the Ten Commandments are not monotheistic but monolatristic, in that IHVH states explicitly in the First Commandment that there are other gods but that it must come first. All fascinating stuff.

 

[Squirtgunsquirter]

nature have time,all the time in the world...and I understand some you dudes and dudettes belive,some even belive the book is nothing but true,written
by man,different versions over centuries,but okay,have nothing against it,don't try to take it away from anyone...
what I find strange indeed is,if I say I think and belive in the evolutinary process,some,not all, comes and try to convert me to think into creationism...
any particular reason for that??

Because ministry is part of Christianity.

I have no interest in converting anyone, but if I did try to convert you, it would be for purely selfish reasons. Another skilled soldier of Christ....

In your case, no need. Whatever you believe, your clearly on the team.

 

[Gazrok]

I still find it odd that Christianity is considered monotheistic, when it basically has a pantheon of gods and mystical beings. You have God, then Jesus (Demigod), and Satan (fallen angel, but basically a lesser god who contests with God, even Mary has taken on mystic qualities, as well as the saints). Then you have the whole hierarchy of angels, demons, archangels, etc. Monotheistic? .......umm....OK?

Sorry, didn't mean to get off track with it.

 

[Gazrok]

in that IHVH states explicitly in the First Commandment that there are other gods but that it must come first.

It's a fair point, but one could argue that some of the intent of that is lost in the translation perhaps.

 

[user 5745]

It's a fair point, but one could argue that some of the intent of that is lost in the translation perhaps.

True, but I've never seen an English translation that comes out as 'I am the only god.' It seems fairly legit that the person who wrote the Decalogue conceived of IHVH as acknowledging other gods but not wanting them on the podium with it. IHVH as the biggliest god, if you will!

 

[tmttactical]

God (s) are just like any and every Master Craftsman, they want to be paid for their efforts. For god (s) the coin of the realm is praise and worship. JM2C

 

[jontte]

weird,as in the lingos of Fin and Swe,the first commandment it's more precise..
translation must be the reason..

 

[user 5745]

Perhaps, though in the Hebrew, "'elohim 'acherim" = "other gods". I'm glad I don't have to wrap my head around it for faith reasons ☺

 

[Gazrok]

it uses some "literary devices" to communicate to audiences that knew nothing about things like genetics and geological ages.

Well, it isn't like the authors knew anything about them either.

 

[DrHenley]

Well, it isn't like the authors knew anything about them either.

Well, that's because they didn't exist. Those are modern "inventions" created by scientists as ways to categorize and understand natural processes. Much of it is entirely arbitrary. How would they know about the Cambrian age, when that age wasn't defined until thousands of years later? Why didn't the authors know that a bat is not a bird? Because modern taxonomy wasn't used then. It's a modern invention. In the "taxonomy" of the time, a "bird" was something that had wings and that wasn't an insect. Now we come along and define taxonomy based on things they didn't know about, and criticize them for not knowing OUR taxonomy?

One of the biggest problems with understanding things written thousands of years ago is that people tend to read them in a modern context and thinking that all the conventions of today were the same then. It was a different world. Society was different, laws were different, understanding of the natural world was different. To judge them by modern sensibilities and standards is as silly as criticizing someone thousands of years ago for not wearing the correct necktie for a formal dinner.

 

[TexasFreedom]

It's interesting that when Doc showed the math, nobody wanted to argue his math is wrong. Rather they avoided that & tried other comments.

'Modern' Science has a real problem, it self-contradicts. MS defines 'impossible' as 10^-50. Anything with odds below that are defined as not happening, not possible. Yet Doc's math shows evolutions favorite illustration as being 10^-828. For the math challenged, let me explain. Let's say the 'impossible' event is winning the MegaLotto. So this situation would be to win the lotto this week. And next week. And the following... and winning each weekly MegaLotto for the next 4 months. If you miss one week, you have to start all over again.

BTW, the lotto has something like 1 in 500 million odds. The real 'impossible' (10^-50) would be the equivalent of winning the lotto six consecutive times. The odds Doc gave are those 6 lotto wins, times 16. So that is winning the lotto every week for about 15 months.

So when Jontte said all the time in the world, that's the problem, it's still not nearly enough time. All the time in the whole universe is still far too little. I would be fine with accepting evolution, if only there were any evidence at all to support it.