I have been thinking about self sufficient bunkers.

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Liber T. Phoral

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I honestly think that in whatever type of scenario having a fully hidden, self sufficient bunker is invaluable. I will outline a few of my ideas and would like some feedback. Cost is not a factor in this analysis. I plan for this system to be approximately 75-200k sq feet.

Power:
I think the best source of power for this system would be geothermal power. Of course this limits the location of the system but I will position the system in a region with high levels of geothermal activity. Geothermal power systems do have a higher initial start-up cost but once they are up and running they require no effort to supply power/heat. This is much better than gathering fuel to power a system or relying on windy or sunny weather. The maintenance on such system is minimal.

Oxygen Production:
I have always had an issue with bunkers relying on external air to supply breathable air. Such systems can always be compromised is some fashion and can lead to detection of the bunker. Think of the exhaust from your system showing up on infrared cameras for example. An easy way to compromise your system if you rely on external air would be to simple block all the intake vents. Even if you have air filtration systems to filter out poisons etc. a 100% blockage of your air will result in a compromised situation. My solution to this problem is using plants to produce oxygen. I have taken some of this idea from this link. http://preparednesspro.com/underground-gardening-literally/ I think that if the bunker has its own well, with an infinite supply of power from the geothermal generator, and a healthy (20 year+) supply of grow lights this could be very viable. Hydroponics or aquaponics systems could be feasible.

Food production:
With an assortment of the above named systems I would want two (2) one acre grow rooms. Each of these rooms would have absolute climate control capabilities to provide specific climates to best suit particular plant species. Chill hour capabilities would be provided for specific species necessary for food production. Along side fish production from aquaponics systems I would also consider raising a few basic types of livestock. Chickens, rabbits, or goats could work well and live in the grow rooms. Keep sexes separated at all times to prevent breeding unless you are in an extended lockdown situation. These rooms would also be connected to the air circulation system to provide essential oxygen for breathing.

Shop and Mechanics:
This system would include a general mechanics shop. Welding, simple metal fabrication, motor repair, tools, and the basics needed for system maintenance. This system would not keep a large number of vehicles underground. The purpose for all vehicles stored there would be in the extreme event that all surface structures and defenses were to fail.

Rec Room:
I would like to have a full recreation room with many features. Sporting equipment, fitness equipment, a lap pool etc.

Living Quarters:
This section does not need much input as everyone has their own taste and preference. However I would aim to create as much of a natural feel as possible. This would be nothing like living in large corrugated pipes or shipping containers.

Hobbies:
A printing press, wood carving, knitting, weaving, etc. Many different practical things to do with free time will in a lockdown situation.

Vault/Armory/Security Room
The system would include a high scale vault for storing valuables, guns, and ammo. This room would also contain a small gunsmith shop with tools for fabrication and repair. Ammo production capabilities would also be included. The security room would be the nerve center of the bunker. It would be the only room in the whole bunker connected to the outside world in any way. I will have shortwave radio, satellite, radar, long range capabilities for outside communication and monitoring. All outside communication will be routed to one standalone computer system to prevent hacking into the main bunker systems. Also full day, night, infrared cameras of aboveground activity will be routed to the security room. This room will also monitor all critical systems in the bunker; oxygen levels, temperature, power supply etc.

Escape:
The system will be outfitted with multiple one and two way use alternate entrances/exits.

Main Entrance:
My main idea is to have a well disguised entrance that opens into a 10 ft square tunnel. At the end of the 50-100 ft horizontal tunnel would be a vertical shaft. This shaft would be 15 ft sq and descend 50-75 ft. The shaft would contain a platform elevator the same size as the shaft. (think aircraft carrier) At the bottom of the shaft would be blast doors leading to various parts of the facility. The main security for the whole facility is that when the elevator is at the bottom the whole elevator shaft can be filled with water to prevent anyone from entering. Multiple pressurized doors can prevent any water accidents from causing severe damage. Also the shaft does not need to be filled at all times. It is simple an extra security measure. No one attempting to enter your bunker will think to bring/or have scuba gear. And if they swim to the bottom they still wont be able to get in. Additional security measures will be included.


Please give me some feedback. This is my first post on the site.

Thanks.
 

Liber T. Phoral

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One main goal of this system is for it to operate at a low level output and high level. At low level only 25% of plant production facilities will be used and few if any livestock will live underground. At high output many more oxygen breathing species will be able to live comfortably.
 

old_anorak

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This is interesting. I would love to do an underground 'farm' type of bunker, but I would need to work out the livestock aspect of it.
 

Liber T. Phoral

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Check out that link for a more detailed description. I do not think the livestock portion of this system is the critical part. I would expect for it to provide no more than 25-30% of the food supply. While I plan to live in close proximity to this bunker I would not plan to live in it 24/7. So for that reason it would not operate at full capacity/production unless there it was need to support an extended lockdown. However, I would use the gardening capabilities at a higher capacity in non ideal growing conditions ie. winter, storm season. Thanks for commenting :)
 

old_anorak

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Not only would the livestock supply food, but I am looking at horses and goats. We use horses to work around here. Everything on our farm is done by horsepower and if you think about it, how many vehicles are going to be up and running after massive ash fall, emp, or what have you.
 

RetroMike

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i dont see that happening i see more a natural disaster like hurricane or if not a terrorist attack
 

rudyc

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A resting, healthy adult on an average, cool day breathes in about 53 liters of oxygen per hour. An average, resting, health adult breathes in about 500 mL of air per breath. This is called the normal tidal volume. Now, 150 mL of this air will go to non- functioning areas of the lung, called the "dead space." The average breath rate for this average person is 12 breaths per minute. So, the amount of air breathed in by the person which is available for use is 12 x (500 mL -150 mL) = 4,200 mL/minute. Multiply by 60 to get 252,000 mL/hour. That is, every hour, the person will breathe in 252 L of air. Now, on an average, cool, clear day, only 21% of that air is oxygen. So, 21% of 252 L is 53 L. So, in an hour, the person breathes in about 53 L of oxygen.

As you might see, there is a lot of assumptions in the above reasoning: average healthy, resting adult on an average, cool, clear day. Any change in activity, health, size, sex, etc. of the person or the temperature, humidity, barometric pressure, etc. of the day will change the figure we calculated. But, let us just work with the 53 L as a nice "average."

Now, to answer the second question, how much oxygen do plants produce in an hour. Actually, I have data for how much oxygen LEAVES produce in an hour: 5 mL. If your average plant has 30 leaves, then that would be 5 ml/leaf x 30 leaves = 150 ml/plant/hour. So, if an average person needs 53,000 ml (53 l) of oxygen per hour, and the average plant produces 150 ml per hour, then 53,000/150 = 353 plants. Since these are round figures, let us just say that between 300 to 400 plants are needed to produce enough oxygen to keep a person alive in an hour. Again, there are many assumptions: average leaf, average plant. Plus you will need to take into accounted oxygen production decreases as carbon dioxide concentration increases Assuming this hypothetical person is in a confined space with all these plants, the CO2 concentration will rise due to the person's expiration. This will inhibit the plant's photosynthetic rate. Oh, yes, do not forget we will need good amount of light and water, too.


source:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/newton/askasci/1993/biology/bio027.htm

you're gonna need a lot of plants.
 

Joseph

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Make sure it's done by professionals and have a good air system in place. Major issues would be water leaking/flooding and high levels of carbon dioxide.
 

Prepped123

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joseph you bring a good point that the air amout if it gets out of wac it would ruin the operation. and leaking if the under ground growing faciltiy is deep enough that you would not have a deriect leak. the other problem would moisture but other than that that plan sounds good to me
 

Joseph

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I'd suggest if location doesn't matter buy a old nuke missile silo. Just have to put in a air system and recondition it. Some are around as low as 250k
 

ARMY127

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If you have the money the old silos, I think, are definitely the way to go. Many security measures in place and protected air supply and you could design it however you would like to. If you get a bunch of people together and build a condo complex of sorts, you could have a security team, maintenance team, agricultural team, etc. I just don't have the capital for that sort of thing but if someone does that would be the way to go.
 

ARMY127

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Really! There is a place for that I am sure, but please feel free to give anyone free advice on the forum that has questions on that type of gardening. Please don't advertise or try to grab business publicly here.
 

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