Repression an example

[GaRp58]

Yes, after SHTF fiat currencies of any kind will be worthless at it will return to a barter system or gold/silver/other metals as currency.

Be careful friends. The ONLY reason that the pretty little pieces of colored paper and pieces of metal in various colors have ANY value, is because: the very system against we are all prepping, says that they have a value....Gold and money only have a face value when backed by a SYSTEM. Systemfail = valuefail. If I have any hard cash, I prep with it, house upgrade, food upgrade, more arrows, more winter clothes, spare anything...but not in the bank which I don't trust anyway.

 

[DrHenley]

Be careful friends. The ONLY reason that the pretty little pieces of colored paper and pieces of metal in various colors have ANY value, is because: the very system against we are all prepping, says that they have a value....Gold and money only have a face value when backed by a SYSTEM.

Thousands of years of history say otherwise my friend.

 

[bigpaul]

once the system collapses the only way to trade will be barter, and that wont be safe until a long time post SHTF.
your paper money will only be useful as a fire starter, and your shiny bits of metal will be made into jewellery.

 

[GaRp58]

Thousands of years of history say otherwise my friend.

Any good examples to convince me? I have 13 generations of Croatian money from the Austrian-Hungarian time till the modern Kuna. None of them lasted past a war or currency change. I bought Iraki dinar, hoping to see it go back to its old value and giving me a return of 4000%, didn't happen. Still got money saying the "South will rise again" Hasn't happened yet. Watched thousands of people in Germany buying stocks in the Telecom. Went from €27,00 to over €180,00 per stock, and 9 months later dropped to € 8,00. Thousands of little old ladies were financially F****d of their retirement. I only believe and invest in material and food. The rest, might be you are right. Don't wanna take the chances of watching my money "go up in smoke" (or fecies) when SHTF. Your turn, DrH.

 

[DrHenley]

Any good examples to convince me? I have 13 generations of Croatian money from the Austrian-Hungarian time till the modern Kuna

You are confusing fiat currency with money. It's understandable why you would confuse the two because the governments of the world have replaced money with fiat currency and led everyone to believe it is money. We call it "money" out of habit but it's not. Not anymore.

Here are the properties of money:
Medium of exchange
Unit of account
Store of value
Divisible
Fungible (two pieces of the same weight have the same value)
Durable
Portable

Fiat money, especially paper currency is somewhat durable, but does degrade over time. Fiat currency is not a reliable store of wealth because the value of every fiat currency in history eventually went to zero.

But you asked for an example, so I'll give you one. The Spanish Milled Dollar became the universal "Money" of the New World and was actually the first world wide international currency. The consistent size, weight and purity made it the most reliable coin in the New World (similar thing happened previously with the Thaler in Europe).

Long after the Spanish Empire was gone from North America, the Spanish Milled Dollar (Officially called the Peso by the Spaniards, worth eight reales) was the standard money in North America. It didn't need a government backing it. Hell, even the pirates of the Caribbean used it as their standard currency. ("Pieces of Eight")

To enact the Coinage Act of 1792, when the United States decided to come up with a standard One Dollar Coin ("Dollar" is actually English for "Thaler") Alexander Hamilton took a batch of circulated Spanish Dollars, got the average weight, and set that as the weight of the Silver Dollar. That's why a U.S. dollar was a little lighter than a brand new Spanish Dollar. Spanish Dollars circulated along side of U.S. Dollars as official U.S. currency all the way up until the Coinage Act of 1857.

A Spanish Milled Dollar NEVER lost it's value because it was real money.

A little bit of trivia about the Spanish Milled Dollar:
Smaller coins were fairly rare, so to make change people would cut larger coins into pieces (remember the "Divisible" part about money?). Since cutting a coin by halving it, then halving the halves, then halving the quarters was the most convenient way of cutting it up, the large coins were worth 8 reales which made it easier to make change. The smallest practical division of a coin was an eighth, and that was called a "bit". So if you divide a Spanish Dollar into eight pieces, you get eight "bits" - each worth one Reale. Two bits are a fourth of a dollar. Ever heard a quarter called "two bits"? That's why.

Here is the original "quarter" worth two Reales ("two bits" in America)

Notice that "S" shaped scroll around the column?

Looks kind of like this: $ Doesn't it? That's no coincidence...

 

[KateMTx]

Be careful friends. The ONLY reason that the pretty little pieces of colored paper and pieces of metal in various colors have ANY value, is because: the very system against we are all prepping, says that they have a value....Gold and money only have a face value when backed by a SYSTEM. Systemfail = valuefail. If I have any hard cash, I prep with it, house upgrade, food upgrade, more arrows, more winter clothes, spare anything...but not in the bank which I don't trust anyway.

Gold and precious metals have had value throughout human history, even among very uncivilized peoples.

 

[GaRp58]

Well darn it. I studied history for 2 semesters in Ft. Sill. From 1515 to 1980 was the time frame. World history. Never got into the info now provided from the honorable DrHenley. I stand corrected and am amazed. Thank you and Kate for you combined forces to teach an old dog new tricks. I rest my case. (still don't like banks)

Something else: Bank, cash flow, liquidity. The whole idea from this comes from the maritime laws. A river is held under control by its "river(bank)" When the river has enough water it is "liquid" and not dried up. As a person or company need liquid assets. And the river also needs to --flow-- continously, or it will overflow its -banks-. Cashflow is needed to continously maintain the liquidity of money and up hold the "banks" so the Banks can keep the cash flow, liquidity and money under control.

 

[bigpaul]

post SHTF the only thing that will matter will be what you can put in your mouth and how you do it.
forget barter, of any kind, goods or "money", that wont be safe for a long time post SHTF and how do we know there are any survivors to trade with and will they have anything left to trade with? too "iffy" and no guarantees, self reliance is the only way we can survive, not depending on trading with others who might not exist in the new reality.

 

[KateMTx]

post SHTF the only thing that will matter will be what you can put in your mouth and how you do it.
forget barter, of any kind, goods or "money", that wont be safe for a long time post SHTF and how do we know there are any survivors to trade with and will they have anything left to trade with? too "iffy" and no guarantees, self reliance is the only way we can survive, not depending on trading with others who might not exist in the new reality.

There may be a period of time in which this is true, but humans have always developed civilizations throughout history and I think it will happen again, once the survivors have accepted the reality of the post-SHTF world. Will we need to be a lot more guarded in our day-to-day interactions? Absolutely. But I don't believe it's going to be completely everyone for themselves. While we can't depend on trade with others, neither can we depend on going completely solo. We need to prepare for various scenarios and history suggests that humans are likely to form groups and begin trading and bartering with each other.

 

[tmttactical]

Phases to barter time--- SHTF --- die off ---- survival ---- recovery ---- and last but not least, the Rebuilding phase. The last phase is where barter will begin to take place. Why would you give up storage space and invest the money to store items that will not be needed in the first four phases? All my storage space and resources will be dedicated to purchasing and storing items that will help me make it to the last phase.

 

[GaRp58]

All my storage space and resources will be dedicated to purchasing and storing items that will help me make it to the last phase.

Almost like I said, if I got any extra cash, it is gonna be invested in sumthin'. Just gotta out live and out survive the most...

While we can't depend on trade with others, neither can we depend on going completely solo.

Yes Kate, we can only copy what we are already doing today. How many of us are producing their own gas, ammo, clothes or vehicles?
Trade today is called shopping, I take your gas, ammo and clothes and trade pieces of paper for it. You take my potatoes and carrots and give me my paper back...
Later the same happens again, just someone will be standing in the shadows with a gun, overwatching the "shopping spree". Maybe the warlord, maybe my wife...GP

 

[bigpaul]

modern civilisation is too dependant on others for its continuation, we have built a house of cards which could collapse at any time, food supplies are a long chain of interconnecting parts which could fall apart if only one small piece of the chain has a problem.
globilisation has a lot to answer for, when thinking locally would be more sensible.
yet most people seem to want to rebuild the same sort of system post SHTF that probably caused the collapse in the first place, which really dosent make any sense to me.
people need to think about self sufficiency and self reliance and NOT relying on someone else all the time, but of course nothing will ever be done, we will carry on as nations in the same old way until SHTF actually happens but then will be to late to do anything about it.
relying on others post SHTF isn't going to work as these others that people rely on might not survive, and any form of community thinking is a long way down the line in, as has been said by others, in the rebuilding phase which thankfully I wont be around to see.