How would we rebuild the world after an apocalypse? ( telegraph article)

[DrHenley]

Why religious nuts? Religion isn't necessary for repressive regimes, in fact they often ban religion because they see it as a threat. People believing in a higher authority than them? That just won't do, they want to be the highest authority.

I think you'll find that "religious" repressive regimes always claimed to have ultimate authority, usually by claiming that people had to go through them to get to God. People claiming individual access to God was heresy and punishable by death.

 

[jontte]

that's a good point Doc, like what happened to the Cathars in France..

 

[tmttactical]

One problem with being self reliant and providing your own homestead is someone inevitably comes along to take what you’ve worked hard for. We need civilization where we can work and protect each other. A loner has to sleep sometime and will fall victim to more armed aggressors. Unless you live in a really remote area I thing a group would be the best way to go.

So Brent, are you going to join the Trump crowd? They are going to be the survivors.

 

[Kevin L]

Why religious nuts? Religion isn't necessary for repressive regimes, in fact they often ban religion because they see it as a threat. People believing in a higher authority than them? That just won't do, they want to be the highest authority.

I think you'll find that "religious" repressive regimes always claimed to have ultimate authority, usually by claiming that people had to go through them to get to God. People claiming individual access to God was heresy and punishable by death.

I agree.

Still, I would suppose that out of all the repressive regimes in history, the vast majority were religious.

I can think of 3 off the top of my head. The Soviet Regime was very anti-religion. According to Karl Marx, religion was a sedative drug used by those in power to control the masses.

Yet . . . was the Soviet Regime really not religious?

The State had it's ceremonies, it had a life philosophy, it mandated a government definition of good and bad, and "sinners" were "excomunicated" to the gulags in Siberia.

I would argue that the Soviet Regime had more in common with a religious theocracy than differences.

Or--to put it another way--the State was supposed to be everyone's higher power.

The Third Reich seemed--on the surface--to be a facist government that wasn't religious, but again--is this really true?

Hitler demanded worship (Heil Hitler!), he used occult sources to guide his foreign and domestic policies, he eliminated people who practiced the wrong religions, and his political rallies seem to resemble old-time tent revivals, in the sense that there's worship of that higher power.

Again, I believe that Nazism had much in common with religion.

I'm not familiar enough with the People's Republic of China to intelligently discuss their politics, but I would suppose that the combination of a strict doctrine, supression of dissent, required ceremony, and "othering" anyone who's different has much in common with organized religion.

It's the same old story, except that the serial numbers are filed off and it's given a fresh coat of paint.

 

[Brent S]

So Brent, are you going to join the Trump crowd? They are going to be the survivors.

Dream on!

 

[grayghost668]

ha,,,rebuild the world you say,,,,if it goes to chit all I will be interested in is saving myself the rest of the world will have to fend for itself

 

[grayghost668]

if the SHTF religion would not matter one bit,,,,,the so called GOD is not going to reach out and say it's going to be alright I will take care of you,,,,the only one who is going to help you is in the mirror

 

[tmttactical]

Dream on!

Ah, so it will just be you and your family --- no other viable surviving groups --- unless you have a solid Mormon community near by. So it will be you, the Mormons and the Deplorable Trumper's. You are going to feel real out numbered. LOL

 

[LiveTrap]

Books will become sacred, and the offspring of survivors whose parents have gone to the trouble to teach them to read will be "god like." They will have access to the knowledge accumulated by thousands of years of learning. Those that don't teach their children, because they are in full time survival mode, or just don't bother, will be peasants of the lowest order. So..........nothing will change much from now.

 

[Kevin L]

Books will become sacred, and the offspring of survivors whose parents have gone to the trouble to teach them to read will be "god like." They will have access to the knowledge accumulated by thousands of years of learning. Those that don't teach their children, because they are in full time survival mode, or just don't bother, will be peasants of the lowest order. So..........nothing will change much from now.

I may disagree with you, but I see your argument, and it is a good one.

 

[TexasFreedom]

if the SHTF religion would not matter one bit,,,,,the so called GOD is not going to reach out and say it's going to be alright I will take care of you,,,,the only one who is going to help you is in the mirror

Sigh. Strength comes through faith. For your mirror comment, tell that to Moses and King David and, the best, Elisha. 2 Kings 6:17 And Elisha prayed, "Open his eyes, LORD, so that he may see." Then the LORD opened the servant's eyes, and he looked and saw the hills full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.

But just because God loves us, that doesn't mean that we're not going to die. But at least we only do it once.

We've been through this circle, no need to go off on a tangent. Agree to disagree.

 

[TexasFreedom]

Kevin,

Good points about oppressive gov'ts that looked like an oppressive religion. The US was created by a bunch of Christians, who didn't want to impose their belief on others. But they also said that our gov't was not designed for and would not work for a non-Christian population... and we are proving that true today.

I'd say the founding fathers, a bunch of Christians, created the kindest, most loving government ever. Too bad we've screwed it up in only 250 years.

 

[grayghost668]

Then the LORD opened the servant's eyes,

this is where I have a problem,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I AM NOBODY'S DAMNED SERVANT ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[bigpaul]

One problem with being self reliant and providing your own homestead is someone inevitably comes along to take what you’ve worked hard for. We need civilization where we can work and protect each other. A loner has to sleep sometime and will fall victim to more armed aggressors. Unless you live in a really remote area I thing a group would be the best way to go.

depends on the survival rate, the mortality rate will be so high that it could be years before I even see another person let alone face to face, low population areas now will be even lower population areas post apocalypse.
just because someone is alone dosent mean security is lax, there are ways of protecting oneself that don't need humans. humans are fallible and human error will be rife.

 

[BillMasen]

Sadly the historical facts stand firmly against Religion, so many wars, repressions, massacres, OPPRESSION, discrimination, bigotry can be directly attributed to religion that is is clearly been more of a force for bad than good. The body count proves it Religion had caused more deaths than political ideology. And so long as ANYONE believes THEIR religion gives them the moral highground over anyone else it shall remain that way. Its why religion is in terminal decline in many western nations as more and more folk CLAIM enlightment, which in turn creates more conflict with those nice folks who DO believe in religion and that they are the enlightened ones.

Personally I 100% respect and admire anyone of strong faith and belief and i would fight to allow people to have belief or NOT, but I (personally) would never trust them fully, which I'm also sure is a two way street .

 

[BillMasen]

Kevin,

Good points about oppressive gov'ts that looked like an oppressive religion. The US was created by a bunch of Christians, who didn't want to impose their belief on others. But they also said that our gov't was not designed for and would not work for a non-Christian population... and we are proving that true today.

I'd say the founding fathers, a bunch of Christians, created the kindest, most loving government ever. Too bad we've screwed it up in only 250 years.

Tell that to the native Americans and Mormons

 

[GaRp58]

Then the LORD opened the servant's eyes, and he looked and saw the hills full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.

this is where I have a problem,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I AM NOBODY'S DAMNED SERVANT ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I am nobody's servant either, I am a son and a brother...
BTW, who really wants to "re-build" this piece of crap world?!?!?
Build it new, but PLEASE do not re-build a useless, warring, hateful, racist and nature destructive world which we use at the moment...
Nature does not need us as much as we need nature. All plants and animals, (except water lilies) know when there is not enough food/water to sustain more population, then they do not multiply themselves, till the situation gets better. Only the human has not understood this principle. If the SHTF or TEOTWAWKI comes to fruit, then those who disappear into their bunkers to survive, will come back with their weapons, technology, medicine, transportation and THEIR IDEOLOGY.
WE have the knowledge, WE can help, WE will rebuild, WE are the survivors...All I would say would be, YOU AND YOURS helped create this meltdown!! Get the f**k back into your hole and don't come back or pay the consequences...GP

 

[TexasFreedom]

I am nobody's servant either, I am a son and a brother...

WE have the knowledge, WE can help, WE will rebuild, WE are the survivors...All I would say would be, YOU AND YOURS helped create this meltdown!! Get the f**k back into your hole and don't come back or pay the consequences...GP

I am with you on the last part. There will be zero soy-boys and liberals that get any help from me if/when SHTF. Just as Trump said "acquittals have consequences", "not preparing" also has consequences. And for those who were part of the destruction with their welfare-ways, they get the consequences.

I don't want to get into a deep pointless argument, but the Bible quote means that 'the servant' was the servant of Elisha. It does not say if he was a slave, an apprentice, or what. But the 'servant' was not in direct reference to God. And what God did was to allow him to see into the spirit-world, the non-physical world, and see the army standing at the ready. Every hill and plain was covered with countless angels. I can't imagine how awesome that would be to see. Again, not wanting to start an argument, but pointing out the meaning for anyone interested.

BTW, tell the Bosheviks and Jews in the last century how religion is the biggest killers.

 

[BillMasen]

Books will become sacred, and the offspring of survivors whose parents have gone to the trouble to teach them to read will be "god like." They will have access to the knowledge accumulated by thousands of years of learning. Those that don't teach their children, because they are in full time survival mode, or just don't bother, will be peasants of the lowest order. So..........nothing will change much from now.

As pointed out in another thread a while back in 1000 years some future historian will dig up a book from this era and announce " The people of the 21st century worshipped the Force and its prophet Obi wan Kenobi "

 

[DrHenley]

BTW, tell the Bosheviks and Jews in the last century how religion is the biggest killers.

And the 7 million Ukranians in the Holdomor, and the 20 million Chinese in the Cultural Revolution, and the 3 million Cambodians under Pol Pot, and the six million Poles under the Nazis (only half of those were Jews), and the 1.5 million Chinese (half the population of Xia) during the Mongol conquest, and the 1.5 million Khazaks in the Goloshchekin genocide, and the on, and on, and on...

The largest genocide by a religious government was the Armenian Genocide (1.5 million Armenians) by the (wouldn't you know it?) Muslim government of the Ottoman Empire.