Your Food Storage Equation...

[bigpaul]

in a place like Britain the survival rate will be low and the die off will be high, British people do not evacuate and most will leave it too late and wont have anywhere to go anyway, most people in the cities believe "no where is safe in the UK" and who am I to tell them differently?

 

[Arcticdude]

in a place like Britain the survival rate will be low and the die off will be high, British people do not evacuate and most will leave it too late and wont have anywhere to go anyway, most people in the cities believe "no where is safe in the UK" and who am I to tell them differently?

That is an important point BP. People in the US are always moving around. I think I read somewhere that people here move on average every 7 years. I believe that people in the inner cities, ghettos and slums will stay put waiting for government handouts. That's all they've known for generations. Right now many people are fleeing the cities for rural areas, and the cities are being back filled with illegal aliens and other ignorant no skilled foreigners. They will also sit and wait for government help. I think that's where we'll see the mass die off in the US. Some will wander out of the cities when the food runs out, but I don't think they will last long or get very far.

 

[bigpaul]

That is an important point BP. People in the US are always moving around. I think I read somewhere that people here move on average every 7 years. I believe that people in the inner cities, ghettos and slums will stay put waiting for government handouts. That's all they've known for generations. Right now many people are fleeing the cities for rural areas, and the cities are being back filled with illegal aliens and other ignorant no skilled foreigners. They will also sit and wait for government help. I think that's where we'll see the mass die off in the US. Some will wander out of the cities when the food runs out, but I don't think they will last long or get very far.

even in a relatively small country like Britain the mileages between the cities and the really rural areas are quite large, especially once the petrol stations are empty, everyone (except preppers) over here drive on empty, so they will be walking, how far will they get? not very far is the answer.

 

[poltiregist]

Even if I could get out and about after a collapse regardless as to the cause , if it is actually severe such as the squaller Sri Lanka , Venezuela or African occupants now live in , I would not likely do so . I wouldn't want to see the starving people , desperate and begging for help . I would simply stay hunkered down on my survival retreat which is on a dead end , dirt , rocky road and enjoy the labors of being a prepper .

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

I agree goats are valuable for milk, cheese (which I love) and soap!! Soap is some folk’s afterthought, but it should not be. Can you even imagine how many millions have died from
lack of proper hygiene?

Goat milk soap is wonderful! I order some once in a while as a special treat for myself.

There are also plants that you can use for hygiene too. I have used Soap Plant balls ( Chlorogalum pomeridianum) for laundry detergent before. You put them in a little mesh bag as you agitate. No real smell to them.

https://balconygardenweb.com/best-plants-that-can-be-used-as-soap/

 

[bigpaul]

Even if I could get out and about after a collapse regardless as to the cause , if it is actually severe such as the squaller Sri Lanka , Venezuela or African occupants now live in , I would not likely do so . I wouldn't want to see the starving people , desperate and begging for help . I would simply stay hunkered down on my survival retreat which is on a dead end , dirt , rocky road and enjoy the labors of being a prepper .

its not that I would be put off by starving people, I simply would have no time or inclination to have anything to do with others, I am only concerned with looking after me and mine and others, especially the starving masses, can go to hell for all I care.

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

That is an important point BP. People in the US are always moving around. I think I read somewhere that people here move on average every 7 years. I believe that people in the inner cities, ghettos and slums will stay put waiting for government handouts. That's all they've known for generations. Right now many people are fleeing the cities for rural areas, and the cities are being back filled with illegal aliens and other ignorant no skilled foreigners. They will also sit and wait for government help. I think that's where we'll see the mass die off in the US. Some will wander out of the cities when the food runs out, but I don't think they will last long or get very far.

What concerns me is something I have been seeing increasing over the past ten years or so. Drug runners. The gangs in the cities have a network of lackies who run their "product" up from Mexico (largely), throughout the US.

These mules(and often drug addicts themselves) , are often coordinated by other gang members who "hide out" in the rural areas. These are often serious criminals who had to prove themselves before becoming "members".

As an example, BOL1 is outside a town of 1500. It used to be a big base for one of the more criminally known biker gangs. I was catfishing one night on the lake when to my left a mushroom cloud went up. Found out through the grapevine it was a meth house exploding. Gangs and drugs have infiltrated everywhere.

In TEOTWAWKI (when the legal/enforcement of law has fallen) they will recruit the desperate into their fold. There is no "safety" in the rural areas.

 

[Arcticdude]

What concerns me is something I have been seeing increasing over the past ten years or so. Drug runners. The gangs in the cities have a network of lackies who run their "product" up from Mexico (largely) throughout the US.

These mules, are often coordinated by other gang members (and often drug addicts themselves) who "hide out" in the rural areas. These are often serious criminals who had to prove themselves before becoming "members".

In TEOTWAWKI (when the legal/enforcement of law has fallen) they will recruit the desperate into their fold. There is no "safety" in the rural areas.

I belive that after a serious collapse there won't be any money for the addicts to buy this crap and they'll soon die off. And I feel that people in most rural areas will take the law in to their own hands and wipe these gangs and druggies out. In many truly rural areas, addicts and the gangs that supply them are a very small minority.
I feel very safe where I live.

 

[Arcticdude]

Something just occurred to me, when (if) the power, water, sewer and food deliveries stop, and the free clinics stop passing out "free" medicine, won't there be massive disease breakouts in the inner cities? No clean water, no sewer, no garbage service, and no heat or ac. That's where I see the beginning of mass die offs.
I'm sure that most have already thought of this, but I seldom concern myself with what happens in the cities.

 

[DrHenley]

Trading only works when both parties are desperate enough to do it.

Don't worry, there will be plenty of desperate people.

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

I belive that after a serious collapse there won't be any money for the addicts to buy this crap and they'll soon die off. And I feel that people in most rural areas will take the law in to their own hands and wipe these gangs and druggies out. In many truly rural areas, addicts and the gangs that supply them are a very small minority.
I feel very safe where I live.

It isn't the addicts dying off that is the issue.

Something to keep in mind; gangs by their nature are organized. They have a hierarchy, procedures, rules and orders of operation. They act as a unit.

We have largely given over any of that in our everyday lives to government.

If governance falls, the next most organized group of people, will probably be the gangs.

The sheeple, unprepared and desperate are going to naturally turn to anyone who seems like they have some leadership, organization, protection and resources. They won’t ask questions. Any port in a storm so to speak.

That is why it is important that your group is organized and better yet, coordinated with others in the community.

Going it alone, might mean that you are faced with overwhelming forces. Instead of ten or twenty, it might be two hundred or more; including some from nearby towns, possibly even unprepared neighbors. Gangs do like to control regions.

There are always those who will seek to take by force that which others have whether through the force of taxation/government, or by violence.

Given the mindset these days of many, many people, this mentality will blossom if things get desperate and there is no consequence to this action.

 

[DrHenley]

I believe that people in the inner cities, ghettos and slums will stay put waiting for government handouts. That's all they've known for generations. Right now many people are fleeing the cities for rural areas, and the cities are being back filled with illegal aliens and other ignorant no skilled foreigners. They will also sit and wait for government help. I think that's where we'll see the mass die off in the US. Some will wander out of the cities when the food runs out, but I don't think they will last long or get very far.

Case in point: New Orleans Superdome after Katrina. People stayed in that hellhole waiting for the gubmint to rescue them.

 

[Survivor_316]

Something to keep in mind; gangs by their nature are organized. They have a hierarchy, procedures, rules and orders of operation. They act as a unit.

The good thing about the gang's is that they won't be very prepared and the leadership won't have much connection with the actual drug runners if communication is out.

I see them being more of a problem in a situation where there isn't a total collapse than if it is a sudden and total collapse.

I definitely agree that we need our own networks set up now.

 

[Arcticdude]

It isn't the addicts dying off that is the issue.

Something to keep in mind; gangs by their nature are organized. They have a hierarchy, procedures, rules and orders of operation. They act as a unit.

We have largely given over any of that in our everyday lives to government.

If governance falls, the next most organized group of people, will probably be the gangs.

The sheeple, unprepared and desperate are going to naturally turn to anyone who seems like they have some leadership, organization, protection and resources. They won’t ask questions. Any port in a storm so to speak.

That is why it is important that your group is organized and better yet, coordinated with others in the community.

Going it alone, might mean that you are faced with overwhelming forces. Instead of ten or twenty, it might be two hundred or more; including some from nearby towns, possibly even unprepared neighbors. Gangs do like to control regions.

There are always those who will seek to take by force that which others have whether through the force of taxation/government, or by violence.

Given the mindset these days of many, many people, this mentality will blossom if things get desperate and there is no consequence to this action.

I agree with you 100%, for many areas. I live in a very sparsely populated area. This is an area of large ranches and vast forested areas. I can count the people in my neighborhood on one hand, with fingers left over. For 6 months out of the year, if the snow plows quit running, nobody will be going anywhere around here. Our place is 18 miles out of town (pop 500) on a county/forest service road, and 2 miles off that road. To the north of us there are no towns. 25 miles north of us the road drops down a very steep grade to the river. These are some of the reasons we chose this place. It's about as safe and secure as is possible now days. Like I keep saying, I have absolutely zero concern about our safety, security or the few people that live around here.

 

[Survivor_316]

I agree with you 100%, for many areas. I live in a very sparsely populated area. This is an area of large ranches and vast forested areas. I can count the people in my neighborhood on one hand, with fingers left over. For 6 months out of the year, if the snow plows quit running, nobody will be going anywhere around here. Our place is 18 miles out of town (pop 500) on a county/forest service road, and 2 miles off that road. To the north of us there are no towns. 25 miles north of us the road drops down a very steep grade to the river. These are some of the reasons we chose this place. It's about as safe and secure as is possible now days. Like I keep saying, I have absolutely zero concern about our safety, security or the few people that live around here.

One of my favorite sayings, "the cold keeps the riff-raff out."

I just realized I've never typed that and have no idea how to properly write "riff-raff."

 

[bigpaul]

We have been told that we live "in the middle of nowhere", even if a few city folk try to head out into the countryside, they have no knowledge of what there is to eat, what is safe and what isnt. I doubt they even know they have to filter and boil any water they find.

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

The good thing about the gang's is that they won't be very prepared and the leadership won't have much connection with the actual drug runners if communication is out.

I see them being more of a problem in a situation where there isn't a total collapse than if it is a sudden and total collapse.

I definitely agree that we need our own networks set up now.

They can function without communication that is what is dangerous about them.

You need to think like a criminal. They are always ready to run.

They have stocked safe houses and pre-set rendezvous points, with extra guns, ammo cash, anything they might need on the run or to go dark. Criminals are ready to bug out on a moment's notice.

Other than that, they just have to "Take" what they want/need along the way and like a snowball, gain mass as they go.

Food will be the new money. Instead of "Hey kid, you want to make some real cash?" It will be "Hey dad, you want to feed the kids?".

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

One of my favorite sayings, "the cold keeps the riff-raff out."

I just realized I've never typed that and have no idea how to properly write "riff-raff."

Your local sounds like my BOL2 without the steep grade unfortunately.

 

[bigpaul]

Drug gangs dont go into country areas over here, they employ young kids to be drug runners and the head honchos are back in the big city. the ones organising the young kids are small fry.

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

Drug gangs dont go into country areas over here, they employ young kids to be drug runners and the head honchos are back in the big city. the ones organising the young kids are small fry.

a couple of questions though. Who/where do they run the drugs to? Just the cities? And then how do the head honchos distribute it? Only to the cities?