Why permaculture won’t “save the world”

[backandbeyond]

I came across this article and it put into words many of the random opinions I have long held on the subject but was unable to articulate. I couldn't basically because I couldn't be bothered to do the research I guess. There are so many things to get a handle on today and only so many hours in the day. To me permaculture always smacked of a religion, what with it's ardent disciples, it's regular gatherings of the faithful and it's Holy script on how to plant your garden for the best results. I simply couldn't see the value in it, at least not for me in middle-age.

I know I know, when society collapses... But society isn't collapsing, and it doesn't look like it will in the foreseeable future either. Anyway here is the article, written by an expert in the field, who has worked "in the field" I would encourage anyone who hasn't been baptized into permaculture yet to give it a read before they go out and start tilling the yard. It might save them a lot of toil and effort for little reward.

https://www.darkgreenauckland.nz/posts/why-permaculture-wont-save-the-world
Excerpts:

Permaculture and regenerative agriculture’s core insight is pretty simple. "We can grow a lot of organic food if we all become non-mechanised, semi-subsistence farmers." But we knew that already.
That’s what most of us were doing for the last 10,000 years, until the last 250. And most of us had a terrible time. We built colonies, industrialised civilisation and modern dentistry to get away from all that.

I have permaculture friends who have been living in everything from buses in South America to woods in South Wales. All of them enjoy international flights, hospital visits and inherited money. All of that would be impossible if everyone lived completely in the style permaculture suggests. None of them actually produce enough food for their household, let alone beyond it.

I've tried to set up home in at least half a dozen permaculture based eco-communities in New Zealand and the UK. One of the main reasons I never did was because their inhabitants generally displayed all the harmony and practical usefulness of an octopus playing bagpipes in a tank full of custard.

 

[DirtDiva]

I have been around agriculture all my life and fortunately have learned "not to drink the Kool-Aid" and that includes permaculture. There have been many Farming/gardening movements through the last 60 years or so that I have found the best thing to do is take pieces that make sense, work for you, work for the area you garden/farm in and let the rest go.

Ruth Stout preached gardening in straw. Drawback was straw shortages are common and straw can be expensive. It attracts voles, snakes and slugs in some climates.

Then there was straw bale gardening same thing straw can be expensive and so can the fertilizer you are pouring on the crops once a week to compensate for lack of soil nutrients

Let us not forget the Back to Eden gardening method in wood chips. Where are all these wood chips coming from. I love horticultural wood chips as a mulch and they build great soil. Try to find some these days. They are rarer than hens teeth.

Hydroponics...The plastic that covers that greenhouse is a petroleum based by product. The tanks that hold that water and the pipes that move the water and nutrients are also petroleum by products.

Then there is permaculture, hügelkultur, no till and lasagna gardening. And the list goes on and on.

I have lived and raised a family out of my gardens for decades. I stick to sound gardening principles. I feed my soil well. Compost everything I can get my hands on. I stay away from putting anything on my garden that I can't pronounce or if I am unsure if it will kill me. And the smartest thing of all stay away from gardening fads. They come and they go depending on who has the newest book to sell.

As far as living like a peasant mentioned in this article I may have to at some point give up my modern conveniences but that day "AINT" here yet. I am emotionally attached to my air conditioner, washing machines and such. There may come a time and I will deal but now is not that time. I am enjoying them till they are no longer !

 

[Brent S]

I think learning to garden is one of the most important preps you can do. It is a skill and like any other it takes time and effort. You may not be able to produce all the food you eat but being able to supplement your needs with fresh, healthy things Is just smart I have learned it takes trial and error to learn what works well in your area. If you think you will learn gardening after an event like shtf happens then I can tell you now you will starve to death.

 

[Amish Heart]

I came into our community a year ago, and so received alot of advice this last spring in gardening. I don't have a tractor, or a tiller, so our huge garden had to be dug by hand. All the gardens around me look alike and the same things are grown in each garden. Even down to the type of cucumber (Market More). My garden is producing buckets of produce a day, is very weedy, the rows aren't straight, dead plants are not pulled out right away....the list has been endless. And I didn't mulch with straw. Oh well. I still get lots and lots of veggies. I planted only annuals in my big garden area. The berries, rhubarb, herbs are in other parts of the yard around the house, so I don't accidentally dig them up. I'm planning a fall garden, too, which is not commonly done in these parts.

 

[bigpaul]

if you read about permaculture, REALLY read about it not just scan a few articles, it begins to make real sense.
post SHTF agricultural machines will be useless without fuel, oil and spare parts, even if someone has a stock of these things its still time sensitive until these things are all used up and the machinery grinds to a halt.
sure at the moment all these machines and other stuff can be used to till vast acres of land but thats not food growing thats commercial farming for profit (and much of that food goes to waste anyway).
Permaculture works WITH nature instead of against it as in the modern mono cropping system with its enormous consumption of chemicals which isnt natural or sustainable.
as for "wont feed the world" maybe not, (the planet is overpopulated anyway) its a personal growing system not a commercial one,but post collapse we wont be feeding the world, just ourselves, anyone who cant feed themselves will be breakfast for the crows.

 

[DirtDiva]

Permaculture originated and thrives in the dry climates of Australia and our Southwest. Over much of the country, and especially where I live with 5 feet of rainfall a year and a mild climate that rainfall coaxes very exuberant growth from crop plants and weeds alike. Too many permaculturalists are liable to spend their first few permaculture years admiring their efficient and attractive use of space, and all the years hence cursing all the time needed cutting and weeding needed to keep growth of various plants in balance. I don't want to dig around under the shrubs for my lettuce. I don't want to dodge the copperheads and the rattlesnakes bedded down in that "food forest". What I need are some straight lines and a little elbow room.

My objective is to produce food, good healthy food and lots of it to fill up my jars, large freezers and dehydrators and ultimately my pantry. Thus padding my food stores.

I was initially very drawn to permaculture as it’s a lovely idea. Wouldn’t we all like to have endless amounts of healthy produce while living in perfect harmony with nature? It’s a fantasy of returning to some pre-industrial society where we might continuously harvest the majority of what we need from the land with minimum inputs and minimum disruption to the ecosystem. But the very idea of such a society in the vast majority of anthropological studies has been found to be just that, a fantasy.

That’s not to say that there is no wisdom to be found in traditional gardening practices: again, anthropology has found several examples of indigenous beliefs regarding planting, harvesting, or protecting the existence of wild sources of food that when tested, align with maintaining a sustainable food source.

But permaculture is hardly “traditional” — it is predominantly influenced by the “teachings” of people who came up with these concepts on their own.

The reality is is that in a TEOTWAWKI situation the learning curve to food production is huge. There is no easy way to produce food from the magical food forest. You are going to have to work your butt off every day in the hot sun and bugs to produce, preserve and store food. This along with foraging, hunting and maybe fishing will take up a great deal of your time. Most of it. Other than protection it will more than likely be at the top of your priorities.

Are there some sound principles in permaculture? Sure there are! Covering the soil with mulches, building soil, composting and low/no till techniques are just to name a few and I use all of them when applicable. Permaculture did not invent any of these principles.

I just do not have time for utopian promises. We are not all going to be sitting around the fire sipping Kombucha and singing Kumbaya while waiting on the magic forests to produce. Those that do are going to be eating their unicorns in the end.

 

[bigpaul]

I lived for many years off grid growing my own food, for a single person or a small group its not that difficult, it depends on the scale of the operations, thats why I've always said large groups wont work, not here anyway.
keeping it simple, maybe not permaculture as such but no dig principles and raised beds are much easier than trying to plough several acres by hand.
I am not interested in feeding others, only me and mine, no selling, no trading, no giving it away, I learned a long time ago to look after "number one" nobody else is going to do it especially WTSHTF and any commercial system collapses.

 

[DrHenley]

Speaking of efficient farming, I like the idea the Indians had: growing the "Three Sisters" together in the same spot - corn, beans and squash. The beans went up the corn stalks, and fixed nitrogen in the soil, and the squash crowded out weeds on the ground underneath. And eaten together they provided balanced nutrition.

You have to wonder how they first came up with things like this and nixtamalization. They had no technical knowledge at all about things like nitrogen fixation, niacin deficiency, etc.

 

[bigpaul]

its the same question of who was the first human to learn about fire and where from!

 

[Arcticdude]

The only real problem that I see with permaculture, besides the hippy aspect, is that its too labor intensive. We have good soil in many areas of the ranch, just have to get water to it.

 

[DrHenley]

its the same question of who was the first human to learn about fire and where from!

Lightning.

 

[bigpaul]

The only real problem that I see with permaculture, besides the hippy aspect, is that its too labor intensive. We have good soil in many areas of the ranch, just have to get water to it.

having a large group and trying to feed that large group is what will be labour intensive, all groups in Britain will be family "units" and family only.

 

[MOS0231]

I own Permaculture: A Designers' Manual, by Bill Mollison.
There is up front labor involved, like in any garden, crop, livestock etc.
I have found a number of his ideas to be useful.
But I do not adhere to only his concepts and designs. It is more like guidelines.