What Will The Western Half Of The US Look Like During "The Second Dust Bowl"?

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Schattentarn

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In California, legacy sources of water are rivers. Those rights were gobbled up long ago. No new cities or developments get Colorado River water or Owens Valley water and only, only, only San Francisco gets water from Yosemite National Park---how do you feel about paying for their water? The Feather River project supplies some residential water to the western part of the Central Valley but mostly they service the big plantations.

I worked for Culligan Water for a year. They are the biggest private water treatment company in the world. They say all new water in the Western United States will be well water, period.

The extreme drought area on the map are already deserts. Most of the Southwestern USA is a desert. Cyclic variations in rainfall, like temperature, are a part of our climate. Long term variations are part of a 250,000 year cycle called the Milankovitch Cycle and have nothing to do with or cannot be influenced by any man caused change.


But there is a silver lining. Illegal Aliens go where water flows. So if we cut the big plantations off, maybe some of the illegals will return to Mexico.
 

Arcticdude

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Yeah, I almost put this under Man Made Disasters
That would probably be a more accurate location. Bottom line is there are just too GD many people trying to live where the land cannot support them. The citys are draining the lakes and rivers and the farmers are draining the aquifers as well as the lakes and rivers. Its like a house of cards; eventually the water will dry up and it'll all come crashing down.
Years ago some know-it-all idiot from California proposed to pipe the Columbia River from Oregon/Washington down to California.
Every piece of land has whats called a "carrying capacity". That just means that all land can only support a certain number of animals and/or people. The US exceeded its carrying capacity probably a hundred years ago. California even earlier.
 

Schattentarn

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The Dust Bowl was a man-made disaster. Farmers stripped off the buffalo grass of the plains, planted crops but left the soil exposed in dry, windy weather.

Much of the Southern and Central Sierra Nevada mountains have been burnt off. There is nothing there but "moon dust". Climate, soil type, and vegetation are all on a huge, circular, feed-back loop. So if you change one, the other two will change. In the case of fire this means : Fire aftermath reflects solar radiation back into the atmosphere causing less rainfall AND fire kills the soil bacteria making first generation secondary growth amount to nothing but weeds and brush. So we have hot, dry, crappy weather and it will take at least 300 years to get back to the forested conditions we once had.
 

Arcticdude

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Maybe California is different, they think they are anyway, but every place that I've been forest fires generally do Not burn every tree. The 300,000+ acre fire around my place last year burned probably only about 60% of the trees. Thats still bad but not devastating. The trees will come back, they always do. It all depends on how fast the fire moves. A lot of times a fire will jump over draws and canyons leaving many acres of trees unburned.
I know that in this day and age its fashionable to think that everything that happens now is worse than its ever been. The west has always been hot and dry, fires happen every year, always have. In the old days even the Indians started huge fires to burn off the brush and timber to make hunting eaiser.
 

Brent S

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The only difference is for the first time in history we have 65million people living in the south west that are going to run out of water. Anyone that dosent sell now while the housing market is at an all time high just needs to know the risks they are taking. I believe there will be wet seasons again, but right now the predictions are pretty dire for the foreseeable future. I don’t care what is going to happen in 20 or 30 yrs, considering the average lifespan of a human is only 70, I mostly care about the hardships during my years.
 

Amish Heart

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You're right about too many people in California, but they keep letting more (illegals) walk in. So oh well for them. Regarding Oroville Dam in Ca....two yrs ago it was flooding. They upped taxes to pay to redo the dam. They trucked out water and left it in the ocean. That's nuts. Now it's drier than heck because they're having a dry yeat. They should of put a holding area for their excess, because they know what their population is, and they know they keep letting in people from Mexico. They know their water useage will go up.
 

tmttactical

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We moved away from the Tucson area for several reasons, one being the water situation. Too many people and the aquafer's are being emptied. We read about people who had to haul in water, after their 400 foot deep well went dry. The writing is on the wall, just not enough people can read it.
 

MOS0231

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They also didn't have many windbreak treelines. Farmers were told to plant trees for windbreaks, which they don't like to do, because it's easier to farm big areas without tree lines. Around here we have hedge tree wind breaks.
I mob graze my livestock in 100yrd wide paddocks with 10yrd wide grow lanes. That is where I plant fruit and nut trees, and let nature do its thing.
I have seen more turkeys, grouse, deer in recent years.
 

MOS0231

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Let's hope not. Perhaps take Sam Kineson's advice and LIVE WHERE THE WATER IS.
I listened to a interview with a JPL scientist. A caller-in said something similar to the Great Lakes to the SW pipeline. He said it was not economically feasible to try to pipe all that water over the Rockies or go through them.
If you notice the energy pipelines, they follow the lower elevations or mostly flat terrains.
 

Arcticdude

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We moved away from the Tucson area for several reasons, one being the water situation. Too many people and the aquafer's are being emptied. We read about people who had to haul in water, after their 400 foot deep well went dry. The writing is on the wall, just not enough people can read it.
400 feet? I wish I had a shallow well like that, I'd drill several. My well is 650' and I've heard of people going down 1,000 feet. I think its foolish for people to move to the desert thinking that it would be easy living. Where I live its semi arid. We get little to no rain for 6 months, then we get a lot of snow for 6 months. We make it work. Alfalfa does good here as well as wheat, oats, barley and other grains. Much of our land has deep soil so dry land pasture grasses do good too. We also have a lot of mountain meadows that grow good grass.
The point is people shouldn't be living in areas that can't support people in the first place. Desert living is like a house of cards. Eventually it will crash.
 

Arcticdude

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I listened to a interview with a JPL scientist. A caller-in said something similar to the Great Lakes to the SW pipeline. He said it was not economically feasible to try to pipe all that water over the Rockies or go through them.
If you notice the energy pipelines, they follow the lower elevations or mostly flat terrains.
The Trans Alaska Pipeline goes up and over mountains too. They have pump stations every so many miles, I think 9 total, to get the oil from Prudhoe Bay to Valdez. Its possible to pipe water long distances using pumping stations along the route. A pipeline in the lower 48 would be considerably cheaper to build than in Alaska. Water just needs to get to the same price as oil to make it feasible.
 

Helen Back

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If I lived near the Great Lakes I would fight a pipeline tooth and nail. Why do Californians always think THEY are the most important and should have YOUR water? Eventually the Great Lakes would be empty too. Then what for those people?

Hey CA, you have used and misused your resources. It's time to pay the piper.
 

DrHenley

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400 feet? I wish I had a shallow well like that, I'd drill several. My well is 650' and I've heard of people going down 1,000 feet.
Try 1600 ft. But it goes below two or three shallower aquifers in order to hit positive pressure.
Maybe not everything at the BOL is "optimum", but water? The aquifers of the Mississippi Delta have been described as "infinite."
 
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