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MelissaG

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What are the things you would need for a chemical attack? Or pandemic? or riots? and whats the best radio communication with out getting a ham radio? What do you need to start canning and how long does what you can last!
 

WilliamAshley

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chemical attack... depends on the type of chemicals. -- basically gas mask, with the proper filter... chemsuit (there are various types), booties, and tape (imo tape is a good addition to seal yourself up real good. The gas mask filter thing is wierd, standard filters don't protect against all chemical attacks only certain ones. Often many do not protect against NH cholorine / ammonia based stuff, while other masks are specifically geared. Also some chemicals will eat through certain types of gas masks, exxample rubber masks are not real good for corrosives, but may help with certain other types of events. What you get is based upon your budget.

In case of a pandemic that is usually a virus or bacteria so it is much the same as a chemical attack but a good bug out may be better if you can, not everyone can take a month off work though and stay at home and not answer the door or pick up mail. Basically for a pandemic quarentining yourself is a reverse action for quartentining the people who are ill.

The only defence against riots is not being there. The other option is quite expensive and often only police are capable. You could just kill them all but that would be very illegal unless you were instructed to do so by a peace officer, although self defence may be justified convincing a judge you could not flee and your life was endanger could be difficult. There are active denial systems some which are legal.. these include high sound, high energy, bright light, microwave, and other equipment, often use of chemical weapons is relatively prohibited. Things like firehoses can be expensive, and taping municipal resources like hydrants may be problematic. Having a vehicle is once again dangerous as driviving throuhg people at high speed could be lethal to them. Riot control or combating crowds is not overly complex but there is great risk to life in doing so.

Ham radio is basically most forms of radio.... its just you can often do more with it.

starting up a commerical or not for profit AM radio station will probably be your best bet for non ham radio communications.
in america that could be difficult.

otherwise your communications will only be local within perhaps 10km and in an emergency they may be clogged solid. through GMRSS FMRS CB etc..

you are more advantaged to get a ham license it is easy and up here it is free.

You need jars/cans to can, and a preserving agent. How long it lasts depends on where it is stored example temperature exposure to light, and how air sealed it is, and what type of container you used.
none the less how long it can last depends what it is, as the food itself can decompose, the preservative slows down that process, air sealing stops oxidization. It really depends what it is. You should still rotate your canned stuff out. The general life cycle for storing food is between 3 and 5 years, while it can last 10 20 or more years where possible you should keep things going so that when you do need them you don't find out they were flawed and you didn't know until you opened the batch when you needed it.


not exactly a riot

here is another angle..

 

Trapper

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Melissa, Slow down and take a breath........
Don't get overwhelmed.... Start slow. Take a look at what you have that will be useful preps (camping gear, food dehydrator, canning jars, guns, ammo, food already stored, etc) and make a list. Don't throw a ton of $$ into prepping until you know where you are going. Develop a plan and make it part of a long term budget. Part of that plan is deciding what exactly are you prepping for. It does not have to be any of the things you mentioned. How about a loss of a job or reduction in hours? Weather? Prep for the most probable and you will soon find many of your bases will be covered. The likelihood of a tornado in Ohio is greater than a chemical attack.

1. Determine what you want to prep for
2. Make a list of what you have
3. Make a list of what you need (cover: food, water, shelter, security, etc...)
4. Determine what you need for a week, a month, 3 months, 6 months worth of preps.
5. Determine how you will financially afford to prep ($20 per paycheck?)

After you get these things down then work on specific threats that are a concern to you.
Most of all get connected here, make some friends, ask a lot of questions. I bet in a years time you can come along way from where you are now!
 

old_anorak

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Melissa you need to stop and breathe, you're running around like a chicken with it's head cut off. I'm not trying to be mean, I want you to sit down take a deep breath and just be still for a moment.

As Trapper advised, look at what will be the most realistic threat to you and your family at this moment in time. It isn't deadly nerve gas from Canada or North Korea, it's severe weather. Don't let other posters get you worked up about chemical warfare and other things like that. Yes, they can happen, but Mother Nature happens a hell of a lot more often.

If you are watching Doomsday Preppers and letting it get you worked up... STOP. Remember, these people are receiving a sizable chunk of change for coming off as survivalist nutjobs. Do you want your kid to remember you like that?

If you want to be prepared that's great, but do it in a way that will be beneficial to you and your family. Gas masks won't do diddly squat if you need tarps to put over the holes in your roof left by wind storms.

Let's look at this rationally, okay? You live in Ohio. You're threats that you face each year can be severe winters, severe spring and summer storms, as well as flooding. Begin there. Make sure you have what you need to shore up your existing home. The last thing you want to do is be a refugee on the road with a child. Store water, lots and lots of it. Use 2 liter soda bottles, they are easy enough to stack on their sides in a closet. Store canned foods as well as dried goods. Store basic staples to create meals from that your family will eat. Store things that will keep your child occupied and quiet. Store flashlights with batteries, candles, weather radio. Make sure you have good sturdy winter clothing, including boots for each of you.

Unless you live in the depths of hell in Cincinnati, plan to stay holed up for awhile. Let the idiots who plan to run for the hills go first, let them be the meat shield that will ultimately protect you and your family. If you live where you absolutely have to get out, do it before others get wind of what is going on. Have a place set up to go, don't just plan to hide and see what happens.

You want to can your own food and that's a good thing. The only preservative you need is sugar and salt. I've been doing this for most likely longer than you've been alive. There are some things that do not can well, things in oil, things with flour, a lot of rice, noodles, and a few others. If you follow the safety guidelines and do everything in a clean kitchen, your food will last for years, not just one or two, but YEARS. Keep them out of the sunlight and extreme temperatures. Know the signs of spoilage and never taste anything you suspect of being bad, burn the contents and bleach the jar.

There are some on this board who preach chemical warfare and nuclear disaster, the rest of us have our heads stuck in reality. It's up to you as to where you wish to be.
 

Trapper

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Anorak, very well said!
If this all seems to be way too much you need to take it from another perspective. Its like building a house. You can't pound the first nail until there is a plan firmly in front of you. Make that plan. Then work on the foundation to make things solid and build from there. You cant paint until the walls are framed and sheet rock is in and textured. Its the same with prepping. What are your immediate needs? Medications for yourself or family members? A weeks worth of water and food. Then go from there. Forget the chemical suits for now. I have been doing this for 15 years and still have not gotten my chemical suit yet...LOL.
 

WilliamAshley

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What is the best gas mask and coveralls and do they have any for toddler?

That is a really good qeustion. There are two factors. 1. how active do you plan to be? 2. would you like to be able to eat in it.

At the top of the line you more or less have space suits, however they are heavy and not something you will want to run aronud in, your mobility may be constricted etc..

IMO
you have three basic options
a civillian gas mask
a military gas mask
an industrial gas mask

If cost is not a factor on filters etc..



for the military mask I like the M52/GSR which is a british and special forces version of the M50 gas mask. These masks are newer they are not super rare and they are adapted for tactical use. The big benefit of these masks is that military gas masks often have drinking tubes.

You may want to take a look at what is being used by HAZMAT teams, the CDC, etc..
The truth is you don't want a gas mask for the top line stuff you will want a closed circuit rebreather that is pressurized.
However it is often more convienient to just use a gas mask.

It may come down to the shape of your head, different gas masks fit differently, and may have different types of filters available.

For myself I picked a relatively low cost mask with a standard nato 40mm filter attachment potential. I do not expect it to protect me in all incidences, I also have a secondary particle mask for particles that may not be protected, however it is pretty much spent and needs to be replaced.

One peice suits are best for a stationary situation.

For the stuff you mention something like this may be good if you don't plan on tactical operations during the incident.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Dupont-Tyche...LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c7095cfe6&_uhb=1

As far as childrens sizes this is more problematic for suits... there are child sized gas masks for instance the israeli gas mask.
older russian models exist also.. there are specific instances in which you will need to carefully pick your gas mask and this requires a little knowledge on how different materials react to different types of exposures. It is absolutely absolutely important to train your child how to use a gas mask properly and keep them safely stored where a todler does not have access to them, as they are not toys and can seriously injure people if used improperly.

here are some examples of tolders masks.



http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Soviet-russi...LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f26cca5ce&_uhb=1


http://www.ebay.ca/itm/NEW-Child-Ga...LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec100a87e&_uhb=1


http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Israeli-Yout...LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item257f167954&_uhb=1

You are best advised to contact companies directly about child sized suits such as Dupont, 3M and other chemical manufacturers. You best bet short of this is to get the smallest size available and tape down or roll over arms and leg portions to double it up by rolling up the parts properly then taping the ends.

There are lots of options...


none the less... look to what your militaries HAZMAT teams use as well as what the nuclear plant safety teams use


I would suggest looking into this in more detail before buying anything however without money constraints


Note this is what the US military is training with





You will note that most of the Terrorist reponse units have one peice type CBRN jump suits either with a gas mask such as the m52 type or a fully enclosed system as seen in the youtube video above.



You will be looking for the term OSHA LEVEL A in your suit but chances are you will probably settle for OSHA LEVEL B or class 2.


example

the video before this one was class 2.


This may be helpful
https://rdl.train.army.mil/catalog/...D-6BEAD5A8D6EF-1274315130406/4-02.7/chap5.htm


watch this


Other considerations are 1. are you within the lethal exposure area or outside it, if you are outside it then
 

Trapper

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Ashley,
From your post it seems you feel it is more probable that Ohio will be struck by a nuclear or chemical missile from Kim Jong Un than be struck from a tornado or Melissa loosing her job or how many other scenarios could be factored into this? So what are the odds what is going happen first? I would put my prepping $$ into anything but a chemical suit, especially if someone is just starting out.
 

sharkbait

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Ashley,
From your post it seems you feel it is more probable that Ohio will be struck by a nuclear or chemical missile from Kim Jong Un

Oh crap!I'm in Ohio too! I better get to working on that underground bunker,lol.I think William has been chewing on the wrong tree bark again.

Melissa,my home and property is basically one big prep and has been for years.We still do not own chem suits or gas mask.I have two kids including a toddler.I prep because I do believe things are going to get bad,however,a chem attack or fallout are way at the bottom of my long list of concerns.Take Anorak's and Trapper's advise,they are both giving you outstanding information.
 

WilliamAshley

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Oh crap!I'm in Ohio too! I better get to working on that underground bunker,lol.I think William has been chewing on the wrong tree bark again.

Melissa,my home and property is basically one big prep and has been for years.We still do not own chem suits or gas mask.I have two kids including a toddler.I prep because I do believe things are going to get bad,however,a chem attack or fallout are way at the bottom of my long list of concerns.Take Anorak's and Trapper's advise,they are both giving you outstanding information.
No there are hazmat situations in the US daily. Usually due to truck and train accidents. Also industrial sites sometimes sufer fires. Those are the standard risks, much like the chance of a nuclear plant failure is greater than a nuclear strike.

This is just common sense. Military equipment does not mean it can only be used for military defence. This is like saying a US ruckpack can only be used for war, sorry it is a backpack and it can be used like a civillian backpack. The same is true of gas masks.

As stated above, if the money is there you should get an OSHA class B system, unless you have someone to help you put your kit on, as stated though this was without monetary limits. My cheap solution is not the same as my expensive solution.

http://hazmat.globalincidentmap.com/map.php
Notice there are 4 hazmat incidences in Ohio on that map.. The Chlorine spill is probably the most dangerous of them. Having hidden drug labs in your neighbourhood can also pose a danger in event of a house fire, especially if it is high production meaning lots of stored chemicals. The chances of a better than industrial fire safety plan is unlikely in a drug op, bear in mind even industrial accidents fall out onto local neighbourhoods if you live near any chemical, agricultural, major industrial type plant, you are at an elevated risk of CBRN risks.

Accidents happen. None the less CBRN equipment is CBRN equipment as stated, the tactical consideration is what you need to consider.

Personally I want to leave an area effected by CBRN disaster.. not go into it.. or stay,... this is why I like the Military tactical stuff because I want my exposure to be as limited as possible and put as much distance as possible. Now if I had an air independent bunker I might stay if it was fully airtight.. but otherwise I want to get the hell out, and frankly tactical masks and clothing is best for that. If you don't think you will be able to flee quickly you will want a better system such as OSHA B rather than class 3 military masks because you will have a higher exposure level.

No where did I say anything about Ohio getting hit with Korean Nuclear weapons.. the opening poster asked for what to use for specific incidences that being chemical attack and my response was to that... you are mischaracterizing my response to the opening poster.

Now being able to defend against Russian or Chinese nuclear fallout could be an advantage to your chemical CBRN gear but frankly the response was gauged based upon the op not nuclear attack that is a whole different optimization. Frankly I would be more concerned about nuclear plant failure than nuclear weapons.
 

MelissaG

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I wasnt rushing i was asking for a opinion. you guys dont have to be mean! Sorry im new to this stuff!
 

Trapper

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Melissa, No one was trying to me be mean at all. From your post it seemed you felt desperate and wanted to get "Everything Now". You asked 6 questions in 2 sentences. That is why you got the response you did.

Prepping is a journey not a race! We don't want to see you make mistakes and waste time and money going the wrong direction. That's what we are here for. Let everyone here share their collective knowledge and support you. Over time it will save you countless hours and $$ that we had to learn the hard way. I am sure you have much to teach us as well and I for one look forward working with you!!
 

old_anorak

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I'm glad you came back Melissa. We weren't trying to be mean, please believe me. We all started somewhere and some of us got started with the absolute worst thing we could imagine happening and didn't stop to think of what happened on a regular basis in our own areas. I suppose you could say we were trying to help you from our own screw ups.

It's a scary thing to think about when you first start out and you have all of this information coming at you in overload. Best thing you can do is turn off the tv and think about what you need, really need to begin with.

1. Shelter. If you can stay in place for at least as long as it takes to let all the others hit the road and dissapate, you'll have one up on them. You'll be able to scavenge things that were left behind and if most of the riff raff are gone, where you are may be a good enough place to stay. Bugging out with a small child is hard at the best of times. If you do plan to leave, have a place to go and make sure that you and yours are welcome there. If you can leave early, do it. If you can't, hole up where you are and wait until the roads clear some if you can.

2. Water. There just isn't any way around this one. You have to have it. If you are in an apartment, one of the easiest ways to store it is in empty, clean 2 liter soda bottles. Lay them on their sides in the back of a closet and just stack them up. You can use empty juice bottles too. Don't use milk jugs, the plastic is different and will degrade in a short time and you will have a mess on your hands. As you can afford it, look into water filtering systems. You'll find them from hundreds of dollars down to $20 bucks.

3. Food. Don't get sucked into these companies that advertise freeze dried meals for a year in a 5 gallon bucket. Most of these meals do not have the caloric intake that you and your child will need to survive and thrive, not to mention some of them taste like something out of a cat box. For your bob, you can pick up Mountain House dried meals at Wal Mart in the camping section. The biggest thing is to store what you eat. Trying to change everyone's diet in the middle of an emergency is going to be met with tantrums, fights, crying and even more fun when adults have to change as well. If someone isn't used to eating beans and rice and then that is all they are faced with, they will pitch a fit that you just don't need with the world going to hell around you. Having comfort foods is important, especially with kids or if you don't have a way to cook for a few days. Canned spagetti-os, ravioli and soups can be eaten from the can unheated if need be.

4. Protection. Know your laws and get what you are comfortable with. If you choose a firearm, try to find a gun range where you can rent different models of handguns and long guns so you find what fits you the best. If you are smaller in stature and decide to go with shotguns and long guns, look at the youth models. That is what I've gone with because I'm short and I can get a better handle on these and not feel over-gunned.


Once again, no one was trying to be mean. We do have a member or two on here that will preach gloom and doom and do their best to cause trouble. If you have problems, please speak up and message a moderator. If you have questions, ask. You may not like the answers, but we're only trying to do the best by you and your child.
 

MelissaG

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I have alot
Weapons (Guns, Bow cross bow and traditional and hunting traps),
Tons of ammo and arrows and the kit to make our one arrows with enough to make up to 300+ more arrows, (ammo for protection, arrows for hunting)
Butchering kit,
stuff to make 8 hours candles and a few already made,
Solar panels,
water proof matches and regulars ones
MREs
bunch of car batteries,
water filtering system and life straws for bug out bags and purification tablets ,
Two big boxes of batteries of EVERY size,
Bunch of flash lights and head lamps.
Stuff to keep warm during the winter months and summer months to stay cool,
I have a full on medical kit even including things for surgery!
Meds and vitamins for 2 years! Anything from constapation to poison ivy creme to uti meds!
Non electric Dehydrator,
Paracord
Croval
Solar powered emergency radio
Stored those huge 5 gallon buckets of water
Tent
Stuff to board up windows
buckets with a toilet seat on them with the stuff to make it smell better
Israeli gas mask and filters (looking to up garde)
chemical suits (Looking to upgrade)
Shoe covers!
Stored gas
Rice
Flour
Suger
Pastas
And a bunch of caned foods
Plastic sheeting
tarps,
and so much more!

Only missing radios and stuff


I'm not so new at this been doing it for a year or so just want opinions from fellow preppers. im not JUST prepping for a chemical attack Im prepping for Naturals disasters, civil wars, economic downfalls But i have that stuff and i am prepping for riots and stuff when shit hits the fan I'm prepping for every SHTF SCENARIO because you don't know what will happen first!
 

old_anorak

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My apologies, from your first post, it seemed as though you'd just begun.

One thing that I would add would be clothing in varying sizes for your child as well as material and the supplies to make more.

I've had to wear gas masks and I break out in cold sweats and have panic attacks from claustrophobia that is nearly crippling, so I've not even looked at the gas masks.
 

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