Vaccines

[user 7704]

I feel this is a prepper question.

If people are vaccinated, why does it bother them if others dont?

Th is is a serious question to which I do not know the answer.

I had all of the diseases and survived, but I did vaccinate my kids. So I'm not taking sides. I just really want an answer.

I have asked the people on Twitter who are complaining about the new measles and other outbreaks and the don't answer. Is it a dumb questions ?

 

[Proud Prepper]

I believe in the benefits of vaccines for life threatening diseases, but not to many given at the same time. They should be spaced out every few months over years. The none vaccinated should not be a concern for the vaccinated, no matter what bologna reason they give you.

 

[TexasFreedom]

Robin,

The pro-vaccine group feel that non-vaccinators ARE the problem. We are seeing small outbreaks here & there, & everyone 'panics'.

Reality is that many of these outbreaks, actually the majority, are started by foreigners, mostly illegals. PV (pro-vacciners) think that the 'start' would end there if 100% of people were vaccinated. But reality is many people who also get sick DID have the vaccination. They don't realize the vaccine is not a guarantee, and over time fades. But PV'ers blame non-vaccinated kids as the ones both starting the appearance of the illness as well as the primary propagators of the diseases.

Reality is that hygiene & knowledge & indoor plumbing have been 99% of the reason these diseases have faded. When you put the toilet next to the shallow water well, disease spreads. Washing hands have had a huge impact.

But the anger is because they need somebody to blame, and the media egg them on regarding this. Just like they hate Trump...

 

[KateMTx]

From a scientific perspective, it does matter. You may have heard the term "herd immunity;" a lot of people laugh at this concept but it is a real thing.

Imagine a group of one thousand people. Keep in mind that there are individuals who, for medical reasons, cannot receive vaccinations of for whom vaccinations are not effective - say for this purpose there are ten of these people in the group. Now consider if EVERYONE ELSE in this group has received the measles vaccinations. If the medically necessary unvaccinated only come into contact with other people in the group, what is the chance that they will get sick with measles? The answer is 0%, because there will be no one around to spread it.

Now imagine that there are also 100 other unvaccinated individuals in the group. They could received the vaccinations, but just don't. They, too, are mostly only in contact with people in the group. However, once in a while, they have contact with the "outside world." During once such contact, one of them is exposed to the measles virus. Then they go back to their group.

At this point, what is the chance that the people who cannot receive vaccinations may become ill? Remember that 1/10 of the population is susceptible to measles simply because they chose not to be vaccinated. If one of these people is exposed to the sick person, and becomes sick, and then passes it to the next one, the disease can spread around the community. The more sick people there are, the higher chance that another unvaccinated person will be around a sick person and thereby contract the illness.

If even 1/3 of those who chose not to get the vaccine got the disease, that would be 33/1000 or 3%. That is high enough that it could be very easy for any or even all of the medically unvaccinated to accidentally cross paths with an ill individual. Then a person who had no choice in the matter could become very sick, because someone else chose not to get the vaccine.

On the other hand, if the ONLY ones who were unvaccinated were those who could not be for medical reasons (10/1000), then even if ONE of those people became ill, the chance that they would come into contact with another such person would be very low and the risk that it would spread to ONE other individual, never mind ALL 10, would be very low. That is the concept of "herd immunity" and why it matters that everyone be vaccinated.

 

[user 7704]

People in my age group had measles, mumps, chicken pox, etc. It was just part of childhood.

I understand polio and rubella are really bad, but the others were just a week of inconvenience

 

[Maverick]

We had 50 cases of the measles since January 1st this year in just one county Southwest of me, spreading faster than anticipated, shutting down schools, emergency rooms etc..., almost all the measles are spread between young ones without MMR vaccination. This damn thing was eradicated from the US by the year 2000. I saw a report a little over a year ago 1 death per 300 from measles related pneumonia and/or encephalitis prior to 1995. The blame rest with folks coming into this Country not so much from citizens here, it really boils down to outsiders coming into this Country.

 

[DrHenley]

I got my immunity from having the measles.

 

[TexasFreedom]

Kate,

Your theory is flawed. You did not account for people who got vaccinated yet can still get the illness. You don't account for the people injured/killed by the vaccine. You assume the primary method of prevention is vaccines (it's not BTW).

Here's an example. One reason Ebola is so bad in Africa is that their traditions is to touch the dead. After a year, to dig them up & pass them around. Great way to spread Ebola.

Another example. There is no vaccine for the Black Plague. Yet 100's of millions died from it. But we have figured things out. Drink clean water. Cook your food and store it properly. Kill mice & rats. And it's not a problem in advanced nations which address all these issues.

 

[user 7704]

I got my immunity from having the measles.

Me too

 

[Maverick]

Ma would drag us kids over to who ever’s house just so us kids would catch that ****. I think a lot of kids around my age got immunity from the school of hard Knox, it was a fact of life.

 

[brandx]

I feel this is a prepper question.

If people are vaccinated, why does it bother them if others dont?

Th is is a serious question to which I do not know the answer.

I had all of the diseases and survived, but I did vaccinate my kids. So I'm not taking sides. I just really want an answer.

I have asked the people on Twitter who are complaining about the new measles and other outbreaks and the don't answer. Is it a dumb questions ?

My guess is that they don't like the waste of resources when it could have been prevented and the damage that could be done to kids that get sick. I really would hate to see a kid get polio, my preacher had polio as a kid and his legs were weak and atrophied, he eventually was in a wheelchair. To take that chance, I don't know. It is a huge decision and I think some parents just don't do their research.

 

[brandx]

Robin,

The pro-vaccine group feel that non-vaccinators ARE the problem. We are seeing small outbreaks here & there, & everyone 'panics'.

Reality is that many of these outbreaks, actually the majority, are started by foreigners, mostly illegals. PV (pro-vacciners) think that the 'start' would end there if 100% of people were vaccinated. But reality is many people who also get sick DID have the vaccination. They don't realize the vaccine is not a guarantee, and over time fades. But PV'ers blame non-vaccinated kids as the ones both starting the appearance of the illness as well as the primary propagators of the diseases.

Reality is that hygiene & knowledge & indoor plumbing have been 99% of the reason these diseases have faded. When you put the toilet next to the shallow water well, disease spreads. Washing hands have had a huge impact.

But the anger is because they need somebody to blame, and the media egg them on regarding this. Just like they hate Trump...

If that's the case then there shouldn't be any vaccines at all. What would happen then. Nothing?

 

[TexasFreedom]

brandx,

Measles is a big don't care. When your kid was healthy & strong, parents exposed their kids to it & they did just fine. Polio is a very different disease, you do not hear the same about that one. Don't confuse things.

 

[Maverick]

I feel this is a prepper question.

If people are vaccinated, why does it bother them if others dont?

Th is is a serious question to which I do not know the answer.

I had all of the diseases and survived, but I did vaccinate my kids. So I'm not taking sides. I just really want an answer.

I have asked the people on Twitter who are complaining about the new measles and other outbreaks and the don't answer. Is it a dumb questions ?

Their are slight risks not getting vaccinated and slight risk in getting vaccinated. Like you, I got it the hard way but my kids were vaccinated. People just don’t want to deal with it and prefer everyone get vaccinated, like society do-gooders (we know what’s best for you and your family) it’s a mentality thing brought on by propaganda in one way or another.

I’m on the fence and really don’t care what the parent does, it’ certainly not child abuse as some in the media has made it out to be!

 

[jontte]

don't compare measels with the black death,vaccinate your kids,sure you can contract it later in life,but it will very,very mild version of it.
as people travel in this modern world,you don't only bring back home nice souveniers like a bottle of scotch,you could bring something else too,with
a higher risk if you are un-vaccinated.

this year we've had prolly the best flu-shot in history here in my neck of woods,we've had 13 cases of patients sofar in need of intensive care related from
the flu and only one of those had gotten the flu-shot, unfortunately only 2 days before the patient was ferried to the hospital,so no time for immunity build up,
all others had refused the shot,some died.

 

[jontte]

and yes,in a prepper situation,some one un-vaccinated would not be welcomed near me.

 

[KateMTx]

Kate,

Your theory is flawed. You did not account for people who got vaccinated yet can still get the illness. You don't account for the people injured/killed by the vaccine. You assume the primary method of prevention is vaccines (it's not BTW).

Here's an example. One reason Ebola is so bad in Africa is that their traditions is to touch the dead. After a year, to dig them up & pass them around. Great way to spread Ebola.

Another example. There is no vaccine for the Black Plague. Yet 100's of millions died from it. But we have figured things out. Drink clean water. Cook your food and store it properly. Kill mice & rats. And it's not a problem in advanced nations which address all these issues.

You are right that there are some deadly, communicable diseases that there are no vaccines for. It does depend on the type of disease being discussed, and whether they are primarily spread from human to human or from the environment. The primary prevention for measles IS the vaccine. It spreads from human to human but there are no animal vectors for the virus currently in circulation. It is not spread by contaminated water or mice or rats, but only by currently infected humans. These diseases can be eradicated completely through vaccination (like smallpox). Another example of such a disease is polio.

Black plague and ebola are a different story because there ARE animal vectors. Diseases such as ebola and black plague are much more difficult to eradicate because they are also transmitted by animal vectors. Once they have been introduced to a particular human population, they can then spread person to person as well. This is why they are introducing an ebola vaccine to prevent the rapid human-to-human spread that can occur in densely populated areas. (BTW, ebola is a virus and only lives up to a couple weeks on corpses, so digging them up after a year would do nothing to spread the virus. They do have burial practices which involve washing the recently deceased corpse, which is a common way the virus is spread.) Fortunately, in the case of the black plague, the animal vector (the flea via the rat) is relatively easy to avoid with proper sanitation.

I did mention that there are those for whom vaccines are not effective. I included these in my "medically unvaccinated" because although they received the vaccine, they are still able to contract and transmit the disease. The higher the percentage of ineffective vaccines, the more likely it is that the disease will persist, despite widespread vaccination. However, this chance will still be lower than if NO ONE was vaccinated. As far as vaccine-related side-effects, the risk of these is far less than the risk of side effects from the disease itself; that's why we have vaccines.

TL;DR, epidemiology is a complex science and controlling diseases depends on many factors, vaccines being a small but important part of that.

 

[Brent S]

Flat out, vaccines are better for the whole group. As katx said, yes there are some risks, but they are lower than the risks from the disease. I believe the risks of complications from measles increase with age. There are battles that should be fought in life. Fighting against vaccines isn’t one of them.

 

[lonewolf]

and yes,in a prepper situation,some one un-vaccinated would not be welcomed near me.

no one, vaccinated or not, will be welcomed near me.
I had the polio vaccination when I was a kid and a couple of others.
I don't have the flu jab anymore, haven't for about 6 years or so, I just keep away from people, especially in flu season.