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Arcticdude

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"Normal" life WTSHTF will not be normal, not the normal anyone knew before and trying to live a similar type of lifestyle after the collapse is doomed to failure.
trading may be possible in a functioning democracy but after a national or global catastrophe much of the trading material will be lost or destroyed, trading will not be possible or safe for many decades until some form of functioning community has arisen, until then it will be a case of looking after "number one".
this is my problem, survival post collapse will be different in Britain than it will in the US, conditions are different and people are different and trying to explain that to someone who dosent live here can result in misunderstandings.
I said "normal AS possible". A person could be living in a tent but they will still try living as best they can. Of course everything would be different. Thats a no-brainer. People will try to make the best life possible, which will eventually include trading. I think in many parts of the country trading will begin almost immediately. In many parts of the country people already do a lot of trading. Once the shock of a devastating SHTF is over people will start coming together for trading and mutual protection. They always have.
Not everyone are hermits and hates everyone else.
 

bigpaul

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I said "normal AS possible". A person could be living in a tent but they will still try living as best they can. Of course everything would be different. Thats a no-brainer. People will try to make the best life possible, which will eventually include trading. I think in many parts of the country trading will begin almost immediately. In many parts of the country people already do a lot of trading. Once the shock of a devastating SHTF is over people will start coming together for trading and mutual protection. They always have.
Not everyone are hermits and hates everyone else.
what people "will start coming together", most of the sheeple population will be dead or dying, there just wont be anyone near enough to trade with and most that survive will have just what they stand up in, no extras to trade with, nothing.
I've seen it so many times before, a national catastrophic event happens and people are left with nothing, most of them only survive because the red cross and other agencies fly in supplies which wont happen WTSHTF.
 
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bigpaul

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Now admit it bigpaul, a lot of this is wishful thinking. You've often said there are too many people on Earth. You WANT something to wipe out 90% of the population.
the earth is well past its carrying capacity, when something bad happens in the UK and imports arent possible we can only feed about 25% of the current population from the land mass available, its not a matter of wanting it to happen its inevitable.
its not wishful thinking its a simple fact.
its a case of stating the bleeding obvious and I dont know why some people cant see it, maybe its too awful for them to contemplate so they think it can never happen.
 

Amish Heart

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In the US, the Red Cross and FEMA take days and days to arrive. That is always a fact during tornado and hurricane season. I wouldn't count on them around the US. Count on your community and be ready to help
 

Amish Heart

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I always wondered why England didn't learn after the War. They were stuck in the same situation with most of their food being imported and had a bad time feeding their own, even nationalizing their people's own farms for production. So why go back to that same mess now?
 

bigpaul

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In the US, the Red Cross and FEMA take days and days to arrive. That is always a fact during tornado and hurricane season. I wouldn't count on them around the US. Count on your community and be ready to help
same over here, usually a case of too little too late.
 

bigpaul

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I always wondered why England didn't learn after the War. They were stuck in the same situation with most of their food being imported and had a bad time feeding their own, even nationalizing their people's own farms for production. So why go back to that same mess now?
I think globalism and big business got in the way.
of course in 1973 we joined the "common market" which morphed into the EU in the early 1990s. we were lied to by politicians...again and have only just managed to get out recently.
 

Amish Heart

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I don't get how globalism got in the way. Explain that. I know if America ever shut itself off, no import or export, we would do ok with our resources. I don't know that England is used to producing what they need, and they had to become capable of that during wartime. Is it because the population is too far gone compared to possible resources?
 

bigpaul

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well the Industrial Revolution started in Britain in the mid 1700s and we had factories all over the place, but over the 20th century we have turned into a service and financial nation only and lots of the old companies that made stuff have been sold off to foreign companies, many other commodities became too expensive to produce and it was easier to import stuff from "sweat" economies who could make it cheaper.
we are 61% self sufficient in food but unfortunately that is not enough to feed the ever growing population.
something has to give.
 

DrHenley

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its not wishful thinking its a simple fact.
its a case of stating the bleeding obvious and I dont know why some people cant see it, maybe its too awful for them to contemplate so they think it can never happen.
What I'm getting at bigpaul is that a COMPLETE lack of trade or barter will insure a rapid die-off. And that would be just fine by you.
A lot of people are stupid, I'll grant you, but they aren't THAT stupid.
 

bigpaul

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What I'm getting at bigpaul is that a COMPLETE lack of trade or barter will insure a rapid die-off. And that would be just fine by you.
A lot of people are stupid, I'll grant you, but they aren't THAT stupid.
there will be a rapid die off anyway post SHTF, here especially as we import so much stuff and that will cease WTSHTF. we dont have enough trades and skills, apart from computer skills, for enough people to survive to trade afterwards, it just wont happen.
maybe it will be different in the US, I dont know, but I know it wont happen here.
 

Amish Heart

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My original question is that England found themselves in deep doo doo in the 1940's wartime. Alot of the food was imported. Hitler was bombing, so not many boats with goods got in. Farmers were told what and how to produce, and if they didn't, their farms were nationalized by the govt. Still it was a squeek by. Canning was learned, growing of foods, rabbit and chicken raising. A huge crash course back then. So now...with more people, and England is still importing most of their food? Why didn't they learn? 80 yrs ago almost did them in with the supply chain cut off.
 

bigpaul

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My original question is that England found themselves in deep doo doo in the 1940's wartime. Alot of the food was imported. Hitler was bombing, so not many boats with goods got in. Farmers were told what and how to produce, and if they didn't, their farms were nationalized by the govt. Still it was a squeek by. Canning was learned, growing of foods, rabbit and chicken raising. A huge crash course back then. So now...with more people, and England is still importing most of their food? Why didn't they learn? 80 yrs ago almost did them in with the supply chain cut off.
yes and most of that war generation are now dead, my parents amongst them.
modern generations here are 4 times removed from the land and dont have a clue, most are stupid and have no idea how bad things are.
if they did the whole country would be preppers but we are in the 1% minority.
most people here think nothing bad will happen, the pandemic should have shaken them out of their composure but all they did was panic buy and bitch and moan, modern people are so stupid.
 
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M0del_31

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My original question is that England found themselves in deep doo doo in the 1940's wartime. Alot of the food was imported. Hitler was bombing, so not many boats with goods got in. Farmers were told what and how to produce, and if they didn't, their farms were nationalized by the govt. Still it was a squeek by. Canning was learned, growing of foods, rabbit and chicken raising. A huge crash course back then. So now...with more people, and England is still importing most of their food? Why didn't they learn? 80 yrs ago almost did them in with the supply chain cut off.
And by the end of the war, UK had worn out their dirt. Yields were falling and rationing was tight as ever. The UK has been unable to support itself in wartime since they quit running a wood boat navy.
 

Illini Warrior

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My original question is that England found themselves in deep doo doo in the 1940's wartime. Alot of the food was imported. Hitler was bombing, so not many boats with goods got in. Farmers were told what and how to produce, and if they didn't, their farms were nationalized by the govt. Still it was a squeek by. Canning was learned, growing of foods, rabbit and chicken raising. A huge crash course back then. So now...with more people, and England is still importing most of their food? Why didn't they learn? 80 yrs ago almost did them in with the supply chain cut off.
food rationing didn't end with WW2 and 1945 - because Britain's pre-War sources of food supply got crunched - rationing continued until the early 1950s - and it was almost worldwide in that post-war period ....
 

MOS0231

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I have read Bic lighters are good trade goods.

But, post-SHTF, I think steel and flint either modern types (e.g. Blast Matches) or the old style will eventually become the norm and a Bic lighter be more of a novelty.

I heat with wood, so lighting a fire in a confined space with one match is a daily event.
 

grayghost668

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trading and bartering,,, why are we talking about this???? many here think we will see a massive die off,possibly 75% or more,and people will spread out there will be some clusters but not many,,,,land homes and livestock abandoned and there for the taking,,,, it is not looting if the people are gone
 

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