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bigpaul

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depends if there is any community left post SHTF to integrate with, maybe okay if you live in a farming/ranching community in the US, but in Britain not many of the community are employed in agriculture or have those sorts of skills.
 

bigpaul

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But bigpaul, most people aren't that stupid, they know they can't do everything by themselves. It's the ones who are stupid enough to think they can that will perish first.
is that aimed at me?? because I am not going to rely on anyone else who knows less than I do and who probably wont survive anyway.
 

Arcticdude

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Farming, ranching and growing and raising your own food can be very fragile. Example, this spring we had a cold snap with snow in May. It wiped out most of the blossoms on our fruit trees and we'll get very little fruit. The wasps wiped out most of our berry crop this year. A couple years ago the yellow jackets killed 2 of our bee hives. This year we have no grass for the cattle. After SHTF trading will become very important, actually it will be critical for survival.
 

bigpaul

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Farming, ranching and growing and raising your own food can be very fragile. Example, this spring we had a cold snap with snow in May. It wiped out most of the blossoms on our fruit trees and we'll get very little fruit. The wasps wiped out most of our berry crop this year. A couple years ago the yellow jackets killed 2 of our bee hives. This year we have no grass for the cattle. After SHTF trading will become very important, actually it will be critical for survival.
like I said before, good reason to live in a mild climate, moderation in everything.
my lifestyle post SHTF will be similar to the one I had when I lived off grid, thats why I know it is possible to live this way, I will NOT rely on other people for my survival especially in a post SHTF world without ROL.
other people are neither reliable or trustworthy and most do not have the basic skills to enable them to survive this way and it will be too late to learn them.
I am a realist and I know people are no good, the bad ones outnumber the good ones especially after a major catastrophe and given sod's/murphy's law I know which ones I'd end up with if I tried (so I wont).
 
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DrHenley

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is that aimed at me?? because I am not going to rely on anyone else who knows less than I do and who probably wont survive anyway.
Let me rephrase that...
The people who don't know anything about what it takes to survive, but are stupid enough to think they can do everything for themselves will be the first to perish.
There, that is not aimed in your direction now because I assume you know what it takes.
 

GaRp58

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Ignorance can kill just as easily as disease or a bullet.
Recognise that bigpaul? No matter how much you know, how much you prep, how much you are self-dependent...there is always the unknown factor which fulfills Murphys Law and we know that this is the factor of ignorance in only one little thing....be it water purification, food preparation, medicine, building or just going for a walk with the wrong shoes or clothing and getting surprised by a bad storm...not ignorance (lack of intelligence) but ignorance (lack of being able to see the future of things) and being kicked in the butt by Mr. Murphy himself...
 

Arcticdude

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Nobody is capable of having everything necessary for life after SHTF. Eventually trade will become necessary for long term survival. I'm talking about after our personal stores run low in 3, 5, 10 years after SHTF. Most everyone here can get by just fine for a year or two, but not for long term. Eventually shoes wear out, socks and clothing will rot away tools wear out or break, a couple years of bad crops and seeds will run low, hygiene products and medicines run out or go bad. The list is endless. No question about it, trade will be vital.
 

GaRp58

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Ditto, PERIOD!! The wanna-be survivalists will really be able to test their skills on surviving the cold/hot, water search, scavaging for food and fighting the wild animals without ammo only a spear or blow-gun...make a pair of moccasins or a pair of breaches from doe-skin...yeah, impress me...make a lasso from some stinging nettles and a David sling from your belt. Our worst nightmares will become reality if the S does not HTF...only the electricity goes out for half a year...lots will go absolutely ape-shit crazy without their beloved internet and Farcebook or Twitcher crap...I'm with bigpaul on the off-grid thing. I get up with the sun and go to bed with it too sometimes. Don't need my candles, batteries, petroleum lamps and solar lighting except in winter maybe.
 

Dracos

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The only thing I will really need to barter, if you can call it that, is mates for my grandchildren. If people are few and far between my grandkids are going to have to make choices. They need to have as many choices as possible. So as not to have inbreeding.
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Dracos

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Farming, ranching and growing and raising your own food can be very fragile. Example, this spring we had a cold snap with snow in May. It wiped out most of the blossoms on our fruit trees and we'll get very little fruit. The wasps wiped out most of our berry crop this year. A couple years ago the yellow jackets killed 2 of our bee hives. This year we have no grass for the cattle. After SHTF trading will become very important, actually it will be critical for survival.
I hate yellow jackets about the same as I hate grasshoppers.
 

Dracos

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The ugly little bastards (grasshoppers) are not content to eat their fill. They will get on a a plant and chew through through the stalk near the ground. Then the whole plant will fall over. I have one sunflower left. I tried planting two garlic plants with every tomato. Maybe it works or maybe I'm lucky.
 

bigpaul

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Nobody is capable of having everything necessary for life after SHTF. Eventually trade will become necessary for long term survival. I'm talking about after our personal stores run low in 3, 5, 10 years after SHTF. Most everyone here can get by just fine for a year or two, but not for long term. Eventually shoes wear out, socks and clothing will rot away tools wear out or break, a couple years of bad crops and seeds will run low, hygiene products and medicines run out or go bad. The list is endless. No question about it, trade will be vital.
the trouble with that argument is if YOUR supplies have run down and out in 3,5,10 years so will everyone else's!
I do not understand this attitude of expecting someone else to have things or skills we personally lack.
if someone cant repair or make new then they will have to learn to live without them. trying to live a modern life in a post apocalypse world is not going to be possible, adapting to the new "normal" is imperative, not doing so will mean failure, failure means death.
 
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Proud Prepper

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the trouble with that argument is if YOUR supplies have run down and out in 3,5,10 years so will everyone else's!
I do not understand this attitude of expecting someone else to have things or skills we personally lack.
if someone cant repair or make new then they will have to learn to live without them. trying to live a modern life in a post apocalypse world is not going to be possible, adapting to the new "normal" is imperative, not doing so will mean failure, failure means death.
The one key word that everyone should agree with is adapt, everyone must be able to adapt.
 

Dracos

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History repeats itself. Reading a journal from a distant ancestor (I don't know how many greats). I don't think he would have near as much trouble adapting to our time as I would to his. He was from Wales. He had some assets apparently and acquired land in Virginia. Now West Virginia. The year is about 1740. He had a blacksmith shop and apparently a foundry. I think he actually melted iron with coal and a bellows of some sort. I would love to be able to do that. His cash crops were cotton and tobacco. He also grew many crops for feeding the plantation. He owned cattle, pigs, sheep, and chickens. I'm not sure what sorgum is but apparently they made some sort of alcohol from it and distilled it on the property. There were trees and some sort of lumber operation. He also traveled somewhere to get salt peter. Probably to make a crude gunpowder. Horses were very important as was the skill of building wagons.
In the not to distant future I see us relearning what he knew. And maybe something else. What happened to him? As near as we can figure he took a ship back to Wales with a box of gold to bring his family to America. He was robbed and murdered and thrown overboard. His family inherited his holdings. My family still owns a small piece.
I would rather own a plantation than starve to death with a bug out bag. You need a large piece of land to make it without technology.
 

Arcticdude

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the trouble with that argument is if YOUR supplies have run down and out in 3,5,10 years so will everyone else's!
I do not understand this attitude of expecting someone else to have things or skills we personally lack.
if someone cant repair or make new then they will have to learn to live without them. trying to live a modern life in a post apocalypse world is not going to be possible, adapting to the new "normal" is imperative, not doing so will mean failure, failure means death.
We've had trade in this world since the beginning of time. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't happen again. Of course it will take time, and of course people will need to adept. Each place is different. I'm not concerned about what its going to be like in other areas. I'm only concerned about where my family is. I know that most people will want to live as normal a life as possible. Why wouldn't they? I prefer to be more optimistic than some.
 

bigpaul

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"Normal" life WTSHTF will not be normal, not the normal anyone knew before and trying to live a similar type of lifestyle after the collapse is doomed to failure.
trading may be possible in a functioning democracy but after a national or global catastrophe much of the trading material will be lost or destroyed, trading will not be possible or safe for many decades until some form of functioning community has arisen, until then it will be a case of looking after "number one".
this is my problem, survival post collapse will be different in Britain than it will in the US, conditions are different and people are different and trying to explain that to someone who dosent live here can result in misunderstandings.
 
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Amish Heart

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I think if you trade now in a very small community, that trading will be important and continue. But only in your community. Not outside trading, not at a big trading place or even in a farmer's market.
Our amish neighbor will be hosting church for their district on their farm in a few weeks. She brought me sweet corn and green beans and asked for 10 dz eggs for when it's church time for their lunch meal sandwiches. I do that now and I'd do it after SHTF.
 

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