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OnTheFence

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Okay so if a gang of looters break into your house the you defend yourself with force. If scores of vagrants come asking for your supplies you give them a little or turn them away if there's too many.

But what if they won't go away? What if they hang outside the street just outside your house saying to hungry passers by "Hey you know this guy's got a year's worth of food and he's not giving it to any of us!", what if a mob of people start to gather in the public space just outside your house. What if that mob turns a few to dozens, to hundreds, what if once the desperate mob of hundreds of people all decide to rush you at the same time?

All reasons why I think bugging in in and urban or sub-urban environment is dodgy unless your very very discreet about your stores.
 

jimLE

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1st of all..never tell anyone thats not a preppaer of what you have
2nd.if you live in town or suburban area.plan at least 2 or 3 bug out routes.and bug out before that kind of situation starts.and before ppl find out you are there and have stuff they need and want.
3rd plan on a location to bug out to if you can..that way you have a good location untill you can bug out to a better location if you can..
 

Myrrph

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HAHA. If I have some of my community with me, I'll set up shop and start my little fiefdom
 

jimLE

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thats a good idea myrrph..but it's still a good idea to be out of town,and in the country.what if you were one of these folks on the street looking for food n water.and what ever else you can get.now what would you think of if you saw a group of folks carrying on doing this n that? i know id be thinking,they have what i need n want.i wonder if i can get that from them.now whats gonna happen to me if i try.chances are i'll get my self killed.might even kill one or two of them in the process while defending my self.now thier takeing what i have n draging my corpse to where ever for the wild life to eat..
 

Kenprep1979

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Okay so if a gang of looters break into your house the you defend yourself with force. If scores of vagrants come asking for your supplies you give them a little or turn them away if there's too many.

But what if they won't go away? What if they hang outside the street just outside your house saying to hungry passers by "Hey you know this guy's got a year's worth of food and he's not giving it to any of us!", what if a mob of people start to gather in the public space just outside your house. What if that mob turns a few to dozens, to hundreds, what if once the desperate mob of hundreds of people all decide to rush you at the same time?

All reasons why I think bugging in in and urban or sub-urban environment is dodgy unless your very very discreet about your stores.
Yea a grenade into the initial group of people would take care of that risk! lol jk i would never disclose my preps to an outsider or a passer byer so unless they actually get into the house and see it they will not know what i have.
 

Myrrph

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Jim: All you need is a group of people you "trust" and form a "founder" kinda community. with enough minions, starting a fiefdom is not that far away. In history, there are many examples of such people, especially after a few choice "examples" most people will fall into place.

But for my situation and country, thats likely to be unlikely but as the SAS motto goes, "Who DARES WINS" :)
 

Myrrph

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Yea a grenade into the initial group of people would take care of that risk! lol jk i would never disclose my preps to an outsider or a passer byer so unless they actually get into the house and see it they will not know what i have.
yes, I agree. Might wanna consider how to build pipe bombs. You _will_ run out of grenades. Pipe bombs you can make. But please be safe, they're highly illegal and highly dangerous. One wrong move and byebye hand if you're unlucky.
 

jimLE

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myrrph..a community of people is a great idea..but for where I'm located.I'm not seeing that happening in the immediate area I'm living.on account there's to many folks i cant trust to keep their mouth shut when needed..so I've been looking further out from where i live.especially people with enough land to do what we need to do,in the way of garden(s) and life stock as well as homes and any thing else we need
 

Myrrph

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Jim: Thats good. Well, better than me, I have no land! lol. I'll be depending on small troughs of soil to grow tomatoes, okra, chillis and some mint.

I will have to head 9 floors below me to grow potatoes. damn. I should do a whole section on my area and condition! Do we have a section for that? Under the introductions?
 

Danil54grl

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I live out of town and also on a dead end road so I don't think I will see a lot of people hanging around my house, fortunately. I am willing to help out some that could help me with garden or critters, but will have to be very cautious with "helping" others. At a point, some trying to enter will become desperate and that will have to be solved in a different way
 

OnTheFence

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In reply to those who are suggesting lobbing grenades and pipe-bombs at the menacing crowd legally gathering in the public space outside your house.

If you commit mass murder what are you going to do when the police come knocking?

I very much doubt the police will just disappear, if anything the police are far more prepped and organized than the average Joe. It's true that crime will be rampant,
and that people in the police force will probably not have received any salaries for a long time and have families at home starving.

Which is all the more reason they'll be itching to find an excuse to arrest preppers and take all their stuff.

Prepper lobbing pipe-bombs into crowds would seem like plenty excuse for the police to do just that.
 

jimLE

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well onthefence they aint refering to while there is law and order.thier refering to after tshtf situation where there is no law enforcement,and where things and people are lawless.
 
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OnTheFence

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Kind of as an absolutely last resort if you get rushed by a mob?

I guess the issue is there's a large grey area between law and lawlessness where the police still exist but are
totally incapable of handling the volume of crime that's happening everywhere.
 

jimLE

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got a scenario for ya onthefence.now some of us live in town,and some live in the country.so each person needs to go with where they live...lets say tshtf already happened.it's been 1 week after a total and complete economic collapse.stores are empty of food and water camping gear guns n ammo right along with every things else.you think the police will still be on duty and protecting us from other people.? i sure enough don't. their gonna be dead from doing their jobs.or they will be home protecting their family's from the hoards and gangs of people.to me that means ( I ) have to take the needed steps to protect my self and who ever else is here.that means taking the law into my hands to do whats right for me.and if that means shooting them,or blowing them up just to protect us just so we can live.then so be it.I'll do that.no i dont take any pride in that when it comes to killing a fellow human.but it's either them or me.i choose them.i was raised to do whats right.and if that means fending off law breakers who pose a threat.then so be it.
 

OnTheFence

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I still figure for those living in towns making a rapid getaway to a bug out location in the countryside makes a lot more sense than holing up with stores in a urban environment.

In the city things are going to be very complex during a disaster, there'll be police, military, relief workers etc., etc., scurrying all over the place. And there's a grey area between people breaking into your house and hanging around outside on public ground making menacing noises. You won't initially know whether it's the end of the world as we know it or whether order will be restored in a matter of months with those committing crime being brought to justice.

And what happens if it's not some random gang banger? What if its your unprepared friends, their unprepared friends and their families at your doorstep refusing to leave cause they have nowhere else to go?

I say if your in town leg it to a secret location that nobody knows about and leave all that mess behind.
 

Myrrph

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i think if we have situations like in the nat geo documentry Black Out and you are not pushed back into a situation, there is no need to worry about anti crowd defences. however, if somehow they come for you, would you really just sit there and let them take it all away?

Not everyone has a secret location with little people where you can survive. I know I don't, considering the island I live on/in is so tiny.
 

Gazrok

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Okay so if a gang of looters break into your house the you defend yourself with force.
Of course.

If scores of vagrants come asking for your supplies you give them a little or turn them away if there's too many.
If they are asking, vs. attacking, we attempt to broker trade deals. No such thing as a free lunch. But, they may have some things we want in trade for things they want.

But what if they won't go away? What if they hang outside the street just outside your house saying to hungry passers by "Hey you know this guy's got a year's worth of food and he's not giving it to any of us!",
Well, assuming this is in a SHTF scenario, the police, etc. are a non-issue in this case, so yeah, we're simply going to start shooting at such individuals. First, as a warning, second, to kill if they don't get the message.

what if a mob of people start to gather in the public space just outside your house. What if that mob turns a few to dozens, to hundreds, what if once the desperate mob of hundreds of people all decide to rush you at the same time?
Not an issue, see the above response. Would never get to this point.

All reasons why I think bugging in in and urban or sub-urban environment is dodgy unless your very very discreet about your stores.
Even in a rural setting, I wouldn't go about advertising it. Other than this board, I pretty much keep that conversation to close friends (most of whom would be coming here anyhow). OPSEC and all that.

Now, that all said, if an individual, or small family came to us in need, we would evaluate the situation, disarm them (if they had weapons), and give them the opportunity to trade (even if the trade is labor) for supplies, etc., but we'd also be very wary of it being a potential trap, etc. Trust will not be an easily earned commodity in a SHTF environment.
 

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