The Fall of Hospitals

[Helen Back]

Vaccination decreased the rates of elderly patients hospitalized and dying.

Also, I posted this before:

Did anyone notice this, from England's Chief Medical Officer? Look at the stats for over 50.

Hospital admissions over 50: 69% are vaccinated
Deaths over 50: 70% are vaccinated

but hurry up and go get your vaccines..... Pass

Chris Whitty warns of ‘very sick’ Covid patients as he urges people to get a jab (yahoo.com)

 

[DrJenner]

@Helen Back
This article is missing context. Fact is most people in the UK have been vaccinated. Vaccine is not as effective against the Delta variant. You can view the explanation of the data here:
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/...-variant-technical-briefing-published-by-phe/
This doesn’t mean the vaccine is not stopping people being hospitalised, but it’s not 100%. If the vaccine didn’t work at all, we’d expect the same proportion of those who are vaccinated to be admitted. So, if 75% of the population is fully vaccinated we would expect 75% of those in hospital to have been fully vaccinated if the vaccine isn’t working. The fact only 34.9% of those in hospital have been fully vaccinated means that the vaccines are working, even against the Delta agent. It is not as good as the protection against previous variants but vaccines are still preventing serious disease and deaths.

 

[DrJenner]

Also, I posted this before:

Did anyone notice this, from England's Chief Medical Officer? Look at the stats for over 50.

Hospital admissions over 50: 69% are vaccinated
Deaths over 50: 70% are vaccinated

but hurry up and go get your vaccines..... Pass

Chris Whitty warns of ‘very sick’ Covid patients as he urges people to get a jab (yahoo.com)

His comments came as new figures showed that 55% people in hospital with the Delta variant – which is dominant in the UK – have not been jabbed.

The data from Public Health England (PHE) also shows that 74% of people under 50 in hospital with the variant had not been vaccinated.

Almost two thirds of people in the same age group who died in England with the Delta variant were not vaccinated against the virus, the figures show.

The UK’s vaccine programme has so far seen around three-quarters of adults in the UK double-jabbed.

Of the 113 deaths of people under 50, 72 (64%) were unvaccinated, 11 (10%) had received one jab and 27 (24%) had received both.

Of the 3,173 people aged 50 or over admitted to hospital in England up to the middle of this month who were either confirmed or likely to have had the Delta variant, 989 (31%) were not jabbed.

A total of 318 (10%) had received one dose of vaccine and 1,838 (58%) had received two.

Most of the 4,112 people aged under 50 had not had a jab, making up 3,044 (74%) of the total.

A total of 631 (15%) had received one dose of vaccine and 366 (9%) had received both doses.


So 3/4 of adults have been vaccinated, and yes there are breakthrough infections. No one is saying there hasn't been. I have seen 80 year olds with co-morbidities double vaccinated and are dying anyway. Look at Colin Powell.
Even with trials on tens of thousands of people, the absolute risk reductions in Covid-19 vaccine trials are teensy-tiny—a reduction in the risk of getting severe Covid of just 1.2% for Moderna and a scant 0.84% for Pfizer. “One of the main reasons why absolute risk reduction is not shown is because of the numbers. If you say, ‘It’s 95% effective’—wow!” says Piero Olliaro, an infectious disease researcher at the University of Oxford’s Centre for Tropical Medicine and Global Health and one of the authors of the Lancet Microbe article. “But if your absolute risk reduction is like 0.8% or whatever it was, so what?”
You could also, of course, calculate the absolute risk reduction. That’s simply the difference in risk for someone in the treatment group versus someone in the control group. Here’s an example: Say you have 100 people who don’t get a vaccine, and you find that 10 of them catch the disease. So the baseline risk of getting it is 10%. And suppose that 100 other people get the vaccine, and only one of these gets sick. Their risk is 1%. The absolute risk reduction (ARR) is then just 9% (10% minus 1%), because the risk was already pretty low. But the relative risk reduction (RRR) is 90%—that reduction of 9% divided by the baseline risk of 10%.
The key here, though, is that absolute risk reduction does change according to how at-risk the groups of people were in the first place. This pandemic has widely varying risks across populations, and those change over time. (For example, viral variants change how infectious Covid can be, and young people’s risk of severe illness and death has changed as social policies and infection rates have fluctuated. It’s a hard problem!)

 

[Proud Prepper]

@Helen Back
This article is missing context. Fact is most people in the UK have been vaccinated. Vaccine is not as effective against the Delta variant. You can view the explanation of the data here:
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/...-variant-technical-briefing-published-by-phe/
This doesn’t mean the vaccine is not stopping people being hospitalised, but it’s not 100%. If the vaccine didn’t work at all, we’d expect the same proportion of those who are vaccinated to be admitted. So, if 75% of the population is fully vaccinated we would expect 75% of those in hospital to have been fully vaccinated if the vaccine isn’t working. The fact only 34.9% of those in hospital have been fully vaccinated means that the vaccines are working, even against the Delta agent. It is not as good as the protection against previous variants but vaccines are still preventing serious disease and deaths.

What happens when you add the vaccinated deaths that are due to side effects of the shots, that are not covid breakthrough cases? Then does the vaccine shots save more than they don't compared to other prophalactics?

 

[Proud Prepper]

The numbers have been manipulated by people and organizations that's have been proven to have lied and manipulated data in the recent past. Why should you believe them? They keep gaslighting, changing definitions of the science, deleting data and lieing even under oath. All this has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt and even confirmed by there own agencies, yet its ignored by the msm and its sycophants.

His comments came as new figures showed that 55% people in hospital with the Delta variant – which is dominant in the UK – have not been jabbed.

The data from Public Health England (PHE) also shows that 74% of people under 50 in hospital with the variant had not been vaccinated.

Almost two thirds of people in the same age group who died in England with the Delta variant were not vaccinated against the virus, the figures show.

The UK’s vaccine programme has so far seen around three-quarters of adults in the UK double-jabbed.

Of the 113 deaths of people under 50, 72 (64%) were unvaccinated, 11 (10%) had received one jab and 27 (24%) had received both.

Of the 3,173 people aged 50 or over admitted to hospital in England up to the middle of this month who were either confirmed or likely to have had the Delta variant, 989 (31%) were not jabbed.

A total of 318 (10%) had received one dose of vaccine and 1,838 (58%) had received two.

Most of the 4,112 people aged under 50 had not had a jab, making up 3,044 (74%) of the total.

A total of 631 (15%) had received one dose of vaccine and 366 (9%) had received both doses.


So 3/4 of adults have been vaccinated, and yes there are breakthrough infections. No one is saying there hasn't been. I have seen 80 year olds with co-morbidities double vaccinated and are dying anyway. Look at Colin Powell.
Even with trials on tens of thousands of people, the absolute risk reductions in Covid-19 vaccine trials are teensy-tiny—a reduction in the risk of getting severe Covid of just 1.2% for Moderna and a scant 0.84% for Pfizer. “One of the main reasons why absolute risk reduction is not shown is because of the numbers. If you say, ‘It’s 95% effective’—wow!” says Piero Olliaro, an infectious disease researcher at the University of Oxford’s Centre for Tropical Medicine and Global Health and one of the authors of the Lancet Microbe article. “But if your absolute risk reduction is like 0.8% or whatever it was, so what?”
You could also, of course, calculate the absolute risk reduction. That’s simply the difference in risk for someone in the treatment group versus someone in the control group. Here’s an example: Say you have 100 people who don’t get a vaccine, and you find that 10 of them catch the disease. So the baseline risk of getting it is 10%. And suppose that 100 other people get the vaccine, and only one of these gets sick. Their risk is 1%. The absolute risk reduction (ARR) is then just 9% (10% minus 1%), because the risk was already pretty low. But the relative risk reduction (RRR) is 90%—that reduction of 9% divided by the baseline risk of 10%.
The key here, though, is that absolute risk reduction does change according to how at-risk the groups of people were in the first place. This pandemic has widely varying risks across populations, and those change over time. (For example, viral variants change how infectious Covid can be, and young people’s risk of severe illness and death has changed as social policies and infection rates have fluctuated. It’s a hard problem!)

 

[Proud Prepper]

His comments came as new figures showed that 55% people in hospital with the Delta variant – which is dominant in the UK – have not been jabbed.

The data from Public Health England (PHE) also shows that 74% of people under 50 in hospital with the variant had not been vaccinated.

Almost two thirds of people in the same age group who died in England with the Delta variant were not vaccinated against the virus, the figures show.

The UK’s vaccine programme has so far seen around three-quarters of adults in the UK double-jabbed.

Of the 113 deaths of people under 50, 72 (64%) were unvaccinated, 11 (10%) had received one jab and 27 (24%) had received both.

Of the 3,173 people aged 50 or over admitted to hospital in England up to the middle of this month who were either confirmed or likely to have had the Delta variant, 989 (31%) were not jabbed.

A total of 318 (10%) had received one dose of vaccine and 1,838 (58%) had received two.

Most of the 4,112 people aged under 50 had not had a jab, making up 3,044 (74%) of the total.

A total of 631 (15%) had received one dose of vaccine and 366 (9%) had received both doses.


So 3/4 of adults have been vaccinated, and yes there are breakthrough infections. No one is saying there hasn't been. I have seen 80 year olds with co-morbidities double vaccinated and are dying anyway. Look at Colin Powell.
Even with trials on tens of thousands of people, the absolute risk reductions in Covid-19 vaccine trials are teensy-tiny—a reduction in the risk of getting severe Covid of just 1.2% for Moderna and a scant 0.84% for Pfizer. “One of the main reasons why absolute risk reduction is not shown is because of the numbers. If you say, ‘It’s 95% effective’—wow!” says Piero Olliaro, an infectious disease researcher at the University of Oxford’s Centre for Tropical Medicine and Global Health and one of the authors of the Lancet Microbe article. “But if your absolute risk reduction is like 0.8% or whatever it was, so what?”
You could also, of course, calculate the absolute risk reduction. That’s simply the difference in risk for someone in the treatment group versus someone in the control group. Here’s an example: Say you have 100 people who don’t get a vaccine, and you find that 10 of them catch the disease. So the baseline risk of getting it is 10%. And suppose that 100 other people get the vaccine, and only one of these gets sick. Their risk is 1%. The absolute risk reduction (ARR) is then just 9% (10% minus 1%), because the risk was already pretty low. But the relative risk reduction (RRR) is 90%—that reduction of 9% divided by the baseline risk of 10%.
The key here, though, is that absolute risk reduction does change according to how at-risk the groups of people were in the first place. This pandemic has widely varying risks across populations, and those change over time. (For example, viral variants change how infectious Covid can be, and young people’s risk of severe illness and death has changed as social policies and infection rates have fluctuated. It’s a hard problem!)

Copying propaganda from PANO and the WHO has zero credability. I know you believe them completely. That doesn't help us discover the truth of what's really going on.

 

[ban1985]

Do you know what is striking Dr.Jenner ?
There are here more and more obituaries of people who died around 40 years, but rather striking against the last few years. Practically all of them say "sudden cardiac arrest", "stroke" and "after a short severe illness".
Yes, there has always been that I know, but since I read these ads much in the region, I also notice that there are more than normal.

In addition, many people are currently because of pneumonia in the hospital, at the time it is not yet so cold and rainy, but there are many people coughing around that you hear and see every day.

 

[DrJenner]

Do you know what is striking Dr.Jenner ?
There are here more and more obituaries of people who died around 40 years, but rather striking against the last few years. Practically all of them say "sudden cardiac arrest", "stroke" and "after a short severe illness".
Yes, there has always been that I know, but since I read these ads much in the region, I also notice that there are more than normal.

In addition, many people are currently because of pneumonia in the hospital, at the time it is not yet so cold and rainy, but there are many people coughing around that you hear and see every day.

You are correct.
This virus causes clots, ischemic strokes, weakens your lungs and causes you to be more susceptible to pneumonia.
Had a 40 yo this week growing “mold” in his sputum culture that had been infected with COVID.
We are seeing a higher incidence of post Covid complications.

 

[DrJenner]

Copying propaganda from PANO and the WHO has zero credability. I know you believe them completely. That doesn't help us discover the truth of what's really going on.

It’s not “propaganda” from WHO.
data is aggregated at the state level and then given to federal agencies (set up by Trump).
Where would you suggest we get this data you are speaking about, especially related to vaccine deaths as I’m just not seeing that. (And please don’t say VAERS- I can make up anything I want and post it there)- the point of VAERS was to allow reporting by individuals so that it was accessible to research and investigators.

“Irum Zaidi, a top aide to White House Coronavirus Task Force Coordinator Deborah Birx, chaired the meeting. Zaidi lifted her mask slightly to be heard and delivered a fait accompli: Birx, who was not present, had pulled the plug on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDC's) system for collecting hospital data and turned much of the responsibility over to a private contractor, Pittsburgh-based TeleTracking Technologies Inc., a hospital data management company. The reason: CDC had not met Birx's demand that hospitals report 100% of their COVID-19 data every day.

According to two officials in the meeting, one CDC staffer left and immediately began to sob, saying, "I refuse to do this. I cannot work with people like this. It is so toxic." That person soon resigned from the pandemic data team, sources say.

Other CDC staffers considered the decision arbitrary and destructive. "Anyone who knows the data supply chain in the U.S. knows [getting all the data daily] is impossible" during a pandemic, says one high-level expert at CDC. And they considered Birx's imperative unnecessary because staffers with decades of experience could confidently estimate missing numbers from partial data.”
https://www.science.org/content/article/inside-story-how-trumps-covid-19-coordinator-undermined-cdc

 

[ban1985]

You are correct.
This virus causes clots, ischemic strokes, weakens your lungs and causes you to be more susceptible to pneumonia.
Had a 40 yo this week growing “mold” in his sputum culture that had been infected with COVID.
We are seeing a higher incidence of post Covid complications.

Thank you for your honest statement, I appreciate it very much.

What I find alarming is that our politicians and doctors here do not care, you do not care, unless the hospitals are full of patients again even if they are double vaccinated, but then of course people like me have to pay for it.
Even the priests here, corrupted by the Pope, do not notice that you give people in their prime the last blessing under the earth.
I am aware that every vaccination and every drug can have side effects, but if it starts now I don't want to know how many people get sick in the wet and cold November, December and January.

In our hospitals, the staff is already running away, either burnout or it is enough for you because of political restrictions or poor working conditions, we have on 8.5 million inhabitants still good 800 IPS beds, which is a nothing and we are probably heading for a nasty winter where many will remain on the line.

It will be interesting to see how this will continue, I expect anything, either our health system will go down or our government will start a civil war, either way, all those who are in a bad way will no longer receive help, and our politicians will pay for it one day.

 

[DrJenner]

,all those who are in a bad way will no longer receive help,

actually, @ban1985 i do care, very much, and you hit the nail on the head here. This worries me. Those who need help won’t get it.

 

[DrJenner]

@ban1985
I don’t believe the vaccine is the end all- unlike some.
I think it’s a tool in our arsenal and is helpful to avoid hospitalizations but is not the cure.
Something needs to change and this goes back to my original reason for posting this thread- the current trajectory is not sustainable.

 

[ban1985]

To the government, ordinary people are insignificant, we have long been in a two-class society, and the powerful play us off against each other.
If one of the people becomes too powerful and a danger to the government, he will be eliminated, either to prison or under the earth, whether you live in Russia, USA or Europe, it will always be like this.

 

[ban1985]

The vaccine is well on its way to filling the hospitals with other diseases. Israel is already attuning its population to the 4 dose, I think if you really think about it you have to say 4 doses for such a short time that is not good, not good for the body, and above all it does not show that the vaccine is good.

I am not a vaccine opponent, but from my point of view this vaccine is of almost no use from the new mutations and is bad for the natural immune system.
I know two people, one 24 year old, the other 29 year old, both of whom have been top fit for 5 years, go to the finesse center a lot and have very good physical consistency, were sick for two or three days at most once a year, almost no lost work.
Both got vaccinated in the spring, both have been coughing around since July and are now on sick leave a lot and look really shitty. Doctors can't find anything, no clues and can't explain anything, that worries me a little ...

 

[Helen Back]

You are correct.
This virus causes clots, ischemic strokes, weakens your lungs and causes you to be more susceptible to pneumonia.
Had a 40 yo this week growing “mold” in his sputum culture that had been infected with COVID.
We are seeing a higher incidence of post Covid complications.

With all due respect... I ask because I truly want to hear your opinion; not to attack.

So, if the virus causes these problems resulting in death, why do the governments want EVERYONE to get it? What is the natural infection rate, vs the 70-80% they have currently caused?
Why are we pushing covid on kids?

England’s Chief Medical Officer admits to deliberate mass infection of millions of children
England’s Chief Medical Officer admits to deliberate mass infection of millions of children - World Socialist Web Site (wsws.org)




So, is the "expert" you cited earlier to rebut my posting by the PHE, calling the PHE incompetent, or liars?

 

[bigpaul]

in the UK not only do we have the Delta variant but now we have the Delta + variant, neither of which are affected by the vaccine(if anything is).

 

[DrJenner]

This was what I was trying to find.
Chief medical officer cited wrong statistic and everyone ran with it.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-492214263305

 

[ban1985]

Was he pressured to correct his statement?
It may be a mistake on his part, but at this time I would not be surprised by pressure.
Our government has decided that vaccine breakthroughs will NOT be published statistically as they have been until now and that they will not publish how many double vaccinated people have received a positive PCR test.

Why is this done? Quite simply, one can say at the end there are only unvaccinated persons in the hospitals and can pull so us unvaccinated the rope still more closely around the neck.

 

[Mountain Dragon]

Never trust statistics that you have not falsified yourself

 

[DrJenner]

@Helen Back that headline implies the chief medical officer of the UK deliberately infected children which is not true when you read the article (in fact the opposite is true and it speaks against the government)

“At this stage, the government was still speaking in terms of “herd immunity”, through the murderous policy of mass infection, bringing an eventual end to transmission. It now pursues the same policy while admitting the extremely infectious Delta variant and waning immunity renders herd immunity impossible. Johnson’s winter autumn/winter strategy is based on the acceptance that COVID-19 is “endemic” and will remain so.

Whitty confirmed this approach on Wednesday, saying, “because immunity wanes, we’re not going to see a situation where this just sort of stops at a certain point.” Highlighting the fraud of the Johnson government’s focus on vaccination to the exclusion of all public health measures, Whitty added, “I don’t think we should assume that either having had an infection or having been vaccinated provides full long-term protection.” This leaves the door wide open to the development of even more infectious, dangerous and/or vaccine-resistant variants.”

“Every infection of a child is an act of violence carried out by the ruling class. Pfizer reported in March that a study of 2,260 children aged 12–15 found its vaccine was 100 percent effective in preventing COVID-19. Had schools been closed as part of a programme of workplace closures, rigorous testing and tracing, strict safety measures in essential industries and vaccination, tens of thousands of Long COVID cases, thousands of hospitalisations, and scores of deaths among children could have been prevented.

Precisely this policy is necessary to avert the next tidal wave of infections and suffering already underway. The biggest obstacle to its implementation is not scientific knowledge or technical skill but the treachery of the trade unions and the Labour Party, complicit at every stage of the reopening of schools and the economy. The National Education Union, the largest education union in Europe, responded to the DfE figures with a call for the education minister to report more details of COVID infections to help the union and the government “do everything we can collectively to ensure that as many young people as possible continue to learn on site”.