Stop The Bleeding

[Brent S]

A tournekett is the last resort and only for life saving times, as it can cause more damage. I did read something once where they used a tournekett for just a few minutes at a time while they got the bleeding under control. If there's lots of trauma and you can see an artery you can tie it off or even possibly cauterize it. I just hope I'm not the patient in this kind of case, because without modern medical care afterwards your odds from infection/and recovery later aren't great. I keep hearing that knowledge is one of the best preps anyone can do, and I can't stress enough to at least get some basic first aid training. Stay safe all.

 

[doc pops]

I agree that a TK is the last line of defence for bleeding. I also know that in surgery on a limb that a TK is pumped up and the trimmer starts. I was originally taught that the TK was the last line of defense. I also have with a lot of 18 series operator's, 18Ds, PJs, and ... and the theories have shifted a bit. The 68W still go the same route as the medics in the states or as the NREMTP practice. As far as tying an artery if it is fully severed be prepared to go on a fishing and cutting expedition, as I said in an earlier post an artery can withdraw over 6" making it hard to reach with out cutting and tracing the artery channel to find it, and you better be fast. As far as cauterization depending on the artery without a fire going a large one, or modern technology good luck. I have not seen any in whether sand box or in the back of an ambulance, pretty sure none of our fellow preppers have cauterization tool in there first aid kit. I know that the on and off again is not so good because once again most people have no sodium bicarbonate to go in there IV they may or may not have. So all of that bad stagnant blood is going to the heart now we are working on a patient with a bleeding?? and a MI. THE BEST PRACTISE IS , APPLY DIRECT PRESSURE, ELEVATION, PRESSURE POINTS , THEN A TK. As far as infection I got it and understand what you are saying. However if they bleed out, we have nothing to worry about except, body disposal.
During the civil war more people died from dysentery then infection even with the old SAW BONES. In the field now or later and depending on training, time in route to higher level of care, things will be not so good and there will be trial by fire for the medic or the person with the most medical training, first aid kit, or a pocket knife and the ware with all to do something.

Good luck, be safe, and God bless

 

[Danil54grl]

oh also i know 10 bucks isnt much but if you cannot afford it , cyanne pepper is a great clotting agent! amongst many other things. GOOGLE IT! lol

I have also heard about using flour and cobwebs to help start the clotting process, but until we reach the point that I can bring myself or a loved one to a know how doctor, I will just continue to educate myself as much as possible on what may come because I know my knowledge is very limited. I will have to check into the cayenne pepper thing. . . I normally grow this in the garden since I use it often

 

[doc pops]

Danil54grl, all of the above have been used. Cayenne pepper when used externally is a vasoconstrictor, with the exception if you put it in a non scented or neutral scent lotion can be used for a rub for muscle aches and pains. The ladder was told to me by a neuro surgeon. If taken internally will cause vasodiolation, and is reported to be life saving in an MI/heart attic. Back to cayenne pepper as a clotting agent.
During the civil war surgeon's used it to stop veinous as well as artery bleeding after surgery. With better results than using the hot iron, also less infection were reported. I think I saw an arrival on a web site called Go Beyond Organic in the past. I can't say positively how it works but it does. Sugar also works by osmonic pressure, and helps in the clotting cascade. Some times I wish we could use it in the field. For some reason I don't see our medical director getting on board with this any time soon.

Good Luck, be safe, and God bless

 

[Brent S]

I agree that a TK is the last line of defence for bleeding. I also know that in surgery on a limb that a TK is pumped up and the trimmer starts. I was originally taught that the TK was the last line of defense. I also have with a lot of 18 series operator's, 18Ds, PJs, and ... and the theories have shifted a bit. The 68W still go the same route as the medics in the states or as the NREMTP practice. As far as tying an artery if it is fully severed be prepared to go on a fishing and cutting expedition, as I said in an earlier post an artery can withdraw over 6" making it hard to reach with out cutting and tracing the artery channel to find it, and you better be fast. As far as cauterization depending on the artery without a fire going a large one, or modern technology good luck. I have not seen any in whether sand box or in the back of an ambulance, pretty sure none of our fellow preppers have cauterization tool in there first aid kit. I know that the on and off again is not so good because once again most people have no sodium bicarbonate to go in there IV they may or may not have. So all of that bad stagnant blood is going to the heart now we are working on a patient with a bleeding?? and a MI. THE BEST PRACTISE IS , APPLY DIRECT PRESSURE, ELEVATION, PRESSURE POINTS , THEN A TK. As far as infection I got it and understand what you are saying. However if they bleed out, we have nothing to worry about except, body disposal.
During the civil war more people died from dysentery then infection even with the old SAW BONES. In the field now or later and depending on training, time in route to higher level of care, things will be not so good and there will be trial by fire for the medic or the person with the most medical training, first aid kit, or a pocket knife and the ware with all to do something.

Good luck, be safe, and God bless

Lots of really good info, and your right, there's usually not a fire around with a hot poker at the ready during an accident. As a surgical tech I would see the same surgeries over and over, so repeating them would be easy. The problem is that's where you need a dr. so you know it's time to do the c section or appendectomy. Also, as you pointed out, most people don't have a bovie pen or someone to ask to run out and get a special tool or suture. I'm really glad I have some training to be of help, but let's hope I never need to practice it in the woods! Good luck to you.

 

[doc pops]

Lots of really good info, and your right, there's usually not a fire around with a hot poker at the ready during an accident. As a surgical tech I would see the same surgeries over and over, so repeating them would be easy. The problem is that's where you need a dr. so you know it's time to do the c section or appendectomy. Also, as you pointed out, most people don't have a bovie pen or someone to ask to run out and get a special tool or suture. I'm really glad I have some training to be of help, but let's hope I never need to practice it in the woods! Good luck to you.

Amen!!

 

[Gazrok]

BTW, I use "Wonderdust" as my clot aid. We keep it for the horses anyhow, but it works fine for us humans too.

 

[doc pops]

That's funny you say that! I just picked up some at cattle men's today, for my K-9 bag.

 

[ARMY127]

I agree that a TK is the last line of defence for bleeding. I also know that in surgery on a limb that a TK is pumped up and the trimmer starts. I was originally taught that the TK was the last line of defense. I also have with a lot of 18 series operator's, 18Ds, PJs, and ... and the theories have shifted a bit. The 68W still go the same route as the medics in the states or as the NREMTP practice. As far as tying an artery if it is fully severed be prepared to go on a fishing and cutting expedition, as I said in an earlier post an artery can withdraw over 6" making it hard to reach with out cutting and tracing the artery channel to find it, and you better be fast. As far as cauterization depending on the artery without a fire going a large one, or modern technology good luck. I have not seen any in whether sand box or in the back of an ambulance, pretty sure none of our fellow preppers have cauterization tool in there first aid kit. I know that the on and off again is not so good because once again most people have no sodium bicarbonate to go in there IV they may or may not have. So all of that bad stagnant blood is going to the heart now we are working on a patient with a bleeding?? and a MI. THE BEST PRACTISE IS , APPLY DIRECT PRESSURE, ELEVATION, PRESSURE POINTS , THEN A TK. As far as infection I got it and understand what you are saying. However if they bleed out, we have nothing to worry about except, body disposal.
During the civil war more people died from dysentery then infection even with the old SAW BONES. In the field now or later and depending on training, time in route to higher level of care, things will be not so good and there will be trial by fire for the medic or the person with the most medical training, first aid kit, or a pocket knife and the ware with all to do something.

Good luck, be safe, and God bless

Doc, I definitely agree with everything you are saying here and as a Crew Chief on UH-60's (Blackhawks) we have to be Combat Lifesaver trained and carry our own Combat Lifesaver bag with us when we fly, as we could be called to pick up casualties if no Dust Off (Medivac) chopper is/was available. I was also EMT trained as part of being a Firefighter before the Army (served 15 years until wounded 2009 Iraq). I think as far as first aid is concerned if you want to be prepared and be able to help your family and others if needed please take as much first aid/medical training as possible and take refresher courses to keep your training level up. Also read as many books as you can.

 

[doc pops]

Doc, I definitely agree with everything you are saying here and as a Crew Chief on UH-60's (Blackhawks) we have to be Combat Lifesaver trained and carry our own Combat Lifesaver bag with us when we fly, as we could be called to pick up casualties if no Dust Off (Medivac) chopper is/was available. I was also EMT trained as part of being a Firefighter before the Army (served 15 years until wounded 2009 Iraq). I think as far as first aid is concerned if you want to be prepared and be able to help your family and others if needed please take as much first aid/medical training as possible and take refresher courses to keep your training level up. Also read as many books as you can.

Thanks Army127, I still play doc every third day, and on two side jobs PRN... Right now I have been going over to a family friend who's a veterinarian and watching and reviewing with him, I have only worked on my own animals since 97 when I retired from the Army. Also take a class per semester towards my RN. Would like to get in the air as a RN.

Good luck, be safe, and God bless!

 

[Trapper]

An Israeli bandage is a piece of equipment no one carries. Wrap it on and direct pressure is held for you.
3 items we carry at work is quick clot, Israeli bandage and a CAT.