Solar power. My first foray into it.

Doomsday Prepper Forums

Help Support Doomsday Prepper Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
The AGMs can be hard to recondition and may not last very long for solor power system, unless you convert them to a hybrid AGM/LAB device. How you maintain, discharge and charge your AGM makes a big difference. I do think some are good to have just for there cold cranking power as backups.
  • #1 Fully charge after each discharge. Estimated life: 6-9 Years

  • #2 Fully Recharge at least once a week and equalize once a month. Estimated life: 4-6 Years..

  • #3 Only recharge to 85% and equalize once a month. Estimated life: 2-4 years.

  • #4 Only charge to 85% and never equalize. Estimated life: 1 year.
How to turn AGM batts into a hybrid AGM/LAB device. if your AGM is dead you can try the following:

DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK, BE CAREFUL USE THE PROPER SAFETY PRECAUTIONS

1- pop the caps to expose the cells
2- go down to the local auto parts store and get some battery acid, they sell it in bulk sometimes.
3- take a small syringe and add 10 CC of acid to each cell.
4- wait a day for it to absorb the acid, then do it again.
5- do this each day until the mat does not absorb any more acid
6- drill a very small hole in the top of each cap to allow it to vent and replace the caps. make sure the battery is at zero volts.
7- REVERSE CHARGE THE BATTERY !!! yes that is what he said REVERSE CHARGE. this changes the lead plates. 10 minutes is a good estimate.
8- now drain it to zero with a load such as a resistor or dc bulb.
9- charge it with a regular charger that has a variable supply for current in the correct direction.

The fully charged resting voltage will be between 12.2 and 12.6 and it will behave like a standard LAB. water will have to be added peiodically as it will begin to offgass like a normal battery.

The AGM batteries may be converted, but what if the battery is Sulfated, your in trouble.
The only way I ever found to help the battery is make sure the battery voltage is zero. To do this you must use a supply you can dial in for current. The first thing is to test the battery to make sure it is at zero volts. By reversing the charge you can move the lead in the reverse direction, and you only want to do this for a very short time as the battery may heat and you want to keep this at a minimum, say 10 minutes. Then drain the battery to zero and charge again with a variable supply for current in the correct direction. Now we are talking about AGM cells here and not anything else. Be very careful when doing this, as this is done at your own risk.

You should be able to recover at least 55% of those useless batteries. This type of battery dries out and you cant do a thing with it. You can get it to work as we have done this at the shop. Make sure you drill a small hole in the caps that you pop off for the gases to escape.

A Sulfated Battery

How many times have you heard the expression, "The Battery Won't Take A Charge" or "The Battery Won't Hold A Charge?" More often than not, the culprit is hardened sulfate on the battery plates. Below we will attempt to explain what that means, what the causes are, and some measures to prevent the sulfate from permanently damaging your battery.

Let's look inside a battery cell. Basically, there are the positive plates, the negative plates, separators (to keep the plates apart), and electrolyte (sulfuric acid and water).

In normal use, battery plates are getting sulfated all the time. When a battery is being discharged the lead active material on the plates will react with the sulfate from the electrolyte forming a lead sulfate on the plates. When there is no lead active material and or sulfate from the electrolyte remaining the battery then is completely discharged. After a battery reaches this state, it must be recharged. During recharge, the lead sulfate is reconverted into lead active material and the sulfate returned to the electrolyte.

When the sulfate is removed from the electrolyte the specific gravity is reduced and the reverse takes place when the sulfate is returned to the electrolyte. This is why the state of charge can be determined with the use of a hydrometer.

If a battery is left standing in a discharged condition the lead sulfate will become hard and have a high electrical resistance. This is what is normally called a sulfated battery. The lead sulfate may become so hard that normal recharging will not break it down. Most charging sources, engine alternators and battery chargers, are voltage regulated. Their charging current is controlled by the battery's state of charge. During charging, battery voltage rises until it meets the charger's regulated voltage, lowering the current output along the way.

When hard sulfate is present, the battery shows a false voltage, higher than it's true voltage, fooling the voltage regulator into thinking that the battery is fully charged. This causes the charger to prematurely lower it's current output, leaving the battery discharged. Charging at a higher than normal voltage and low current may be necessary to break down the hardened sulfate.

Hardened sulfate also forms in a battery that is constantly being cycled in the middle of its capacity range (somewhere between 80% charged and 80% discharged), and is never recharged to 100%. Over time, a portion of the plate's active materials turns into hard sulfate. If the battery is continually cycled in this manner, it will lose more and more of its capacity until it no longer has enough capacity to perform the task for which it was intended. An equalizing charge, applied routinely every three to four weeks, should prevent the sulfate from hardening.

In both cases, the fact that the battery "won't take a charge" is a result of improper charging procedures which allowed the sulfate to harden. In most instances, it is possible to salvage a battery with hardened sulfate. The battery should be charged from an outside source at 2.6 to 2.7 - volts per cell and a low

current rate (approximately 5 Amps for small batteries and 10-Amps for larger ones) until the specific gravity of the electrolyte starts to rise. (This indicates that the sulfate is breaking down.) Be careful not to let the internal temperature of the battery rise above 125° F. If it does, turn the charger off and let the battery cool. Then, continue charging until each cell in the battery is brought up to full charge (nominal 1.265 specific gravity or higher).This time needed to complete this recharge depends on how long the battery has been discharged and how hard the sulfate has become.

The next time your batteries don't seem to be taking or holding a charge, check the specific gravity with a hydrometer. If all cells are low even after a long time on charge, chances are you've got some hardened sulfate that has accumulated on the plates. By following the instructions outlined above, the problem may be corrected.

 
Last edited:
AGMs are best maintained at a float voltage of around 13.5 volts (depending on the temperature). I have expensive smart chargers that keep the AGMs right at 13.5. I've been through a number of less expensive smart chargers that will not maintain the correct float voltage.
1- pop the caps to expose the cells
Pop the caps???
ea9d8f05-8ceb-4f50-9b5b-43c3dfe2fd04_1.3e4b8a9d2708887917fab84a2a61ec5a.jpeg
 
Last edited:
AGMs are best maintained at a float voltage of around 13.5 volts (depending on the temperature). I have expensive smart chargers that keep the AGMs right at 13.5. I've been through a number of less expensive smart chargers that will not maintain the correct float voltage.

Pop the caps???
ea9d8f05-8ceb-4f50-9b5b-43c3dfe2fd04_1.3e4b8a9d2708887917fab84a2a61ec5a.jpeg
Yeah, most all are sealed, dont have caps, you have to drill holes and put in caps to convert them. The float voltage is important or they wont last long, unless you completly discharge, then fully recharge.
 
AGMs charge faster, have a higher max discharge rate*, are less prone to sulfation, can be safely charged indoors, and have a lot less self discharge than other lead acid batteries. They are a bit more pricey but I think they are worth it. The indoor charging was really the deciding factor for me.

* Due to the fact that AGMs have a higher max discharge rate, even though they are deep cycle batteries, they can be used as automotive starting batteries. I was informed by an auto shop that the main reason people buy them for their cars is just because of the higher cold cranking amps than flooded lead acid batteries of the same size.
Thanks for the info Doc. I read about them a couple years ago but had kind of forgotten them. They were just barely more than the lead acid cost wise and with the no maintenance it is definitely a better battery. Longevity is comparable. Either way I already switched to them in my shopping cart on amazon. Thanks again, I’m always open to good ideas and input.
 
According to DieHard, their Advanced Gold AGM batteries last twice as long as their Gold flooded batteries.

I suppose it could vary with brand, And I suppose it's how you use it. They will take most kinds of abuse better than flooded. They don't like excessive heat or over voltage. But they handle cold, deep cycling, vibration, different orientations (upside down for instance) and sitting unused better than flooded batteries.
 
I got my Kill A Watt meter today. Amazon is awesome, two day free shipping.... anyways, it was only 21.00 and now I will see exactly what my specific appliances are actually pulling power wise. You can get a snap shot instantly, and it also records for whatever length of time you like. I am doing a twenty four hour period for the fridge and freezer each.
Right now with the compressor running I’m using 73watts. In between cycles it drops down to 12watts. The lights are LED inside the fridge and on the door so it pulls a little more each time you open it up. On average the compressor runs about 25% of the time, but that’s why I want a 24hr real time measurement for what I’m actually using so I can size the system for our needs. This thing is a neat little tool. You just plug it in and then plug your appliance into it. Really easy to use.
 
Well, my needs for the fridge are 1.2kwh and the freezer is .45kwh. I am going to at least double that amount and then triple it for no sun days, and then double that for not discharging the batteries more than fifty percent.
So, the math is; I need 1.57kwh just for the fridge and freezer. Double that to run lights and misc. other stuff, making 3.14kwh. Then multiply x3 for rainy days, making 9.42kwh. Then times 2 for not draining the batteries more than 50%. That makes 18.84kwh needed for a 24 hr period. This is a good bit more than is needed but I want to plan for the worse case. I will plug this into real products and the cost shortly and post it. I’m kinda scared for the battery costs already!
 
Looks like I will do fine with 2000AH artery storage. 10 200Amp Hour deep cell AGM batteries. Roughly $4000. Just for batteries. I should still be able to keep the whole system below 8,000. Once I finalize all the parts I will post them with actual costs and pictures. The regular power bill is looking better all the time! Other than the self sufficiency part I don’t see this as economical at all. As soon as the accountant gives us a final tally for last years taxes I will pull the trigger, but still have a little design work to do.
 
Looks like I will do fine with 2000AH artery storage. 10 200Amp Hour deep cell AGM batteries. Roughly $4000. Just for batteries. I should still be able to keep the whole system below 8,000. Once I finalize all the parts I will post them with actual costs and pictures. The regular power bill is looking better all the time! Other than the self sufficiency part I don’t see this as economical at all. As soon as the accountant gives us a final tally for last years taxes I will pull the trigger, but still have a little design work to do.
My battery bank cost $2600 (no tax and free shipping) for 8 each 6V 430AH batteries for 20,640 watt hours at 24 VDC. The engineer told me that if I need to add additional batteries that I'd have up to 1 year to add more if needed. He figured that I'd have plenty of power. I'm not too concerned as the generator will automatically start to cover any unexpected loads.
 
Last edited:
Got the battery bank connected to the inverter and the generator wired to the inverter today. I programed the battery charge controller, the remote battery moniter and the inverter power center too. Just have one connection left to make, from the AC side of the inverter to the cabin. I figured that I'd wait until the wife is home before I make the finial connection. Just in case I made a mistake and electrocute myself.
The programming was easier than I thought. Next step is to order the auto start for the generator.
It'll probably be around the end of May before I can get a cement truck and a crane up here to set the pole mount for the panels. If the timing is right the cement can be done at the time they pour the slab for the shop and foundation for the house.
 
having all those batteries lying around would put me off, (even if I was considering it, which I'm not) from a safety and storage point of view.
storage of anything is a problem in the UK if you have a "modern" house, anything built in the last 30 years +.
 
Last night I made the final electrical connections on my inverter, battery bank and generator. We're running everything on battery power now. I still need to run the generator about 5 hours a day for the next couple of days to charge and equalize the battery bank. Next I'll connect the auto start.
 
Been running the cabin on the battery bank and inverter for several weeks now. Everything is working even better than I expected. Until I get the solar panels up I still need to run the generator about every 3-5 days for about 6 hours to recharge the battery's.
An added plus, thanks to the 30% tax credit, we had zero federal tax liability for 2017. The tax credit covers everything to with installing an alternative energy system; construction costs, equipment costs, electrician, labor, wire and components.
Construction will start on the house and shop in two weeks. When they bring the excavator up to dig the foundation I'll have them dig the hole for the solar panel mount. I'm going with a single pole mount with 10 each 395 watt panels. I figure it'll take about 6 yards of concrete for the pole. Of course all of this cost will qualify for the 30% tax credit too.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top