Brent S
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Don’t know why that posted the way it did.... the links work though.
Solar on a Budget... or am I chasing a unicorn?
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Brent S
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Brent S
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Thanks Doc.
Arcticdude
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I've got somewhere around $40 - 50,000 in the entire system. That includes the concrete (10 yards), excavation, crane time, 20'×8" sch 80 pipe for the panel mount, 10×10 foot building to house the generator, inverter, battery bank, 55 gallon fuel tank, tools, spare parts and a work area.
The auto start is just about the most important component in the system. I think it was only a couple hundred $$$. It's programmable through the inverter. I have mine set to start the generator when the battery bank drops below 24 volts and off at float or 4 hours. You would need a generator with an auto choke for it to operate, and electric start of course.
The way our system is designed and configured there's no way to tell that we're "off grid".
Arcticdude
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Brent. I forgot to add that my generator is in an insulated building, and I put 2 mufflers on the exhaust system. I can't hear it running from inside the house and can bearly hear it running when I'm outside. Usually it starts around 3 - 4 am.
Brent S
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My system is going to run my fridge, freezer and lights. I will watch the battery usage and decide if I want to add another circuit to it then. Even though I will use it daily and likely cut my electric bill down I’m mostly doing this as an emergency backup system. Even when I finish all three separate systems I don’t plan to disconnect from the grid, but hopefully won’t have a bill much over the 35.00 minimum charge. I agree that if you are off grid having the automatic generator is a must to keep the batteries charged during heavy loads and cloudy days. I am (just a little bit) wishing that I had done a whole system but just didn’t want to hit my savings that hard. Right now I am gearing up to retire completely and big expenses would delay that.
I know about wholesale solar, that's where I've gotten equipment before., thanks
Brent S
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tmttactical
A True Doomsday Prepper
Brent just a word of caution. I have read that it is advisable to have air vent in the room where the batteries are located and charged. There were comments about hydrogen gas being generated during the charge cycle. I have not checked this out, just thought I would pass it along for you to look into.
Air vent is good, but not necessarily to vent hydrogen. AGMs are sealed and safe to charge indoors. The only time they could vent hydrogen is if they got too hot and the safety valve opens. That should never happen in a climate controlled room. It could happen in a sealed room however, and that's where the air vent comes in.
tmttactical
A True Doomsday Prepper
Doc, thanks for the update and response. Too long ago to remember what type of batteries were being talked about. I was running a Solar cost analyst for junior and one article I read mentioned the hydrogen charging issue.
Brent S
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Definitely something worth considering. I got AGM batteries that are sealed so they don’t off gasses supposedly. However heat buildup is a concern for both batteries and the electronics. Before I set anything in the space under the stairwell I cut in two vent, one low and one high, and they are on opposite ends of the space. The high one vents to the front porch which has windows that stay open. I am hoping natural convection will move the heat out of the somewhat confined space everything is in. After monitoring the temperature I will add a small ventilation fan if needed. The whole point of producing electricity also encompasses conservative use of it too so I’m hoping to not need a fan.
AGM batteries should be in a ventilated space. Even though they are maintanace free and sealed,
But the “valve-regulated” part of the battery description refers to a vent. In the case of AGM, it’s a pressure-relief valve, usually opening between 1 and 2 psig. Charging too quickly produces hydrogen at a rate faster than it can be absorbed into the glass mat. If this occurs long enough, pressure will build inside the battery, and could force the valve to open.
When this occurs, you’re suddenly releasing the accumulated hydrogen into the battery compartment. So you still need a location that’s free of ignition sources, and open to the atmosphere to dissipate the gas.
But the “valve-regulated” part of the battery description refers to a vent. In the case of AGM, it’s a pressure-relief valve, usually opening between 1 and 2 psig. Charging too quickly produces hydrogen at a rate faster than it can be absorbed into the glass mat. If this occurs long enough, pressure will build inside the battery, and could force the valve to open.
When this occurs, you’re suddenly releasing the accumulated hydrogen into the battery compartment. So you still need a location that’s free of ignition sources, and open to the atmosphere to dissipate the gas.
Brent S
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You are correct that they still need to be vented but I read they don’t produce nearly as much hydrogen as regular Lead acid batteries. Here is to hoping my science experiment dosent blow up my house ! Lol
bigpaul
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that's one heck of an investment! I don't know anyone over here who would or could make that kind of a financial commitment.
Arcticdude
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I really didn't have much choice. We live several miles beyond the end of the power lines and are totally surrounded by National Forest (Federal lands). Even if I could get the permits to cross forest service lands with power lines the cost would far higher than going with solar.
bigpaul
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I have never understood this having to have power AT ANY COST, even if I wanted it that badly I just haven't got that kind of capital.
having power is just not at the top of my list, have lived without any kind of power in the past and will do so again if the power grid fails in the societal collapse, its just not that big a deal, for me anyway.
having power is just not at the top of my list, have lived without any kind of power in the past and will do so again if the power grid fails in the societal collapse, its just not that big a deal, for me anyway.
https://offgridham.com/2018/03/agm-batteries/
One of the more unique properties of AGM batteries is that their chemical process is recombinant. In conventional flooded batteries, hydrogen is pulled out of the electrolyte (which is mostly water). This breakdown is why flooded batteries occasionally need to be topped off with water and why the explosive hydrogen must be safely vented away. The AGM battery will recombine the hydrogen and oxygen to put water molecules back together inside the sealed system. The hydrogen that would otherwise be gassed out as an unwanted byproduct is effectively “recycled”. It’s a highly efficient process; over 99% of the hydrogen is recovered. This is how AGM batteries get away with never needing outside water added after they are sealed at the factory. They can literally make their own water.
AGM batteries have a safety valve that will release pressure if the battery becomes dangerously overheated but you may never get that far. They will generally show clear signs of their imminent death long before the valve gives way. If your battery feels excessively warm, develops a bulge on any side, or is making crackling/bubbling/ticking sounds, immediately disconnect it, let it stand for thirty minutes or so to stabilize, and discard it in an environmentally ethical manner. After you have cleared the trouble that caused the battery to fail (usually overcharging), go shopping for a new battery!
https://www.fiamm.com/fileadmin/user_upload/products/mobility/powerCUBE/Truck_AGM_folder_ENG.pdf
AGM TECHNOLOGY
AGM technology Blocking technology
The main feature that distinguishes an AGM battery from a traditional battery is the gas recombination
technology. For a traditional lead-acid battery the phase of charging is characterized by the dissociation of
water into hydrogen and oxygen. The two gasses leak from the caps, while the level of electrolyte inside the
battery decreases.
AGM uses instead the principle of recombination. Thanks to a special microporous separator (Absorbent
Glass Material), impregnated with a controlled quantity of electrolyte, the oxygen released from the positive
plate after the dissociation of water during charging, can migrate to the negative from which is xed and then
recombine with hydrogen, restoring the water that was dissociated. This establishes a closed electrochemical
cycle, without any gas emission and without water consumption
AGM batteries have a safety valve that will release pressure if the battery becomes dangerously overheated but you may never get that far. They will generally show clear signs of their imminent death long before the valve gives way. If your battery feels excessively warm, develops a bulge on any side, or is making crackling/bubbling/ticking sounds, immediately disconnect it, let it stand for thirty minutes or so to stabilize, and discard it in an environmentally ethical manner. After you have cleared the trouble that caused the battery to fail (usually overcharging), go shopping for a new battery!
https://www.fiamm.com/fileadmin/user_upload/products/mobility/powerCUBE/Truck_AGM_folder_ENG.pdf
AGM TECHNOLOGY
AGM technology Blocking technology
The main feature that distinguishes an AGM battery from a traditional battery is the gas recombination
technology. For a traditional lead-acid battery the phase of charging is characterized by the dissociation of
water into hydrogen and oxygen. The two gasses leak from the caps, while the level of electrolyte inside the
battery decreases.
AGM uses instead the principle of recombination. Thanks to a special microporous separator (Absorbent
Glass Material), impregnated with a controlled quantity of electrolyte, the oxygen released from the positive
plate after the dissociation of water during charging, can migrate to the negative from which is xed and then
recombine with hydrogen, restoring the water that was dissociated. This establishes a closed electrochemical
cycle, without any gas emission and without water consumption
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Arcticdude
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For me the simple answer is; I could afford it. I have to consider my wife's comfort too. I'm not going to make my wife live up here in the mountains without all the conveniences of town living. Electric is more of a necessity than a luxury too. My well is 650 feet deep, no electric no water.
Besides, I'm 63 years old and I want some conveniences too.
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