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So just to clarify, and I asked first, you're saying it's OK for BILLIONS to die worldwide from preventable diseases to save the few who have bad reaction and die? Do you want to go back to the days before vaccines and antibiotics when epidemics killed Billions? Do you want to remove MEAT from all the stores and homes because every year a few people choke to death on it? How about cars? Look how any die on the roads. Are you spewing anti-car nonsense on car and travel forums?



Which diseases? You write like Marge, a paid writer for the alt meds. You make sure you remain VAGUE and never directly answer a question. Not all diseases depend on poor sanitation to spread. Did you look them up to see which ones they are? I'll give you the first two for free - Tetanus and Influenza. :) The site below is a typical alt med site. Only Typhoid fever would apply. The rest do not depend on sanitation. The cleanest home or neighborhood can house a person suffering from antibiotic resistant TB, or a virulent form of the flu, or one of the other contagious diseases. Odd you fail to mention that FACT every time. We don't live in a 3rd world Nation where sewerage is running down the streets and souring fly covered ducks and other meats are hung from hooks in shop windows. Good sanitation helps prevent 'some' disease but can't be compared to being vaccinated.



True immunity develops when vaccinated also. No, not 100% of those vaccinated will develop immunity, but almost all will.

Find a website not written by professional writers paid by the alt med fanatics. Find sites with information from the American Universities such as Vanderbilt in TN or Columbia in NYC. I guess you are so unaware of what vaccines can do that you don't know the rabies vaccine prevents rabies in vaccinated dogs and cats. Almost all will develop immunity. Did you know that? What do you think wiped out polio in people and distemper in dogs, panlukopenia in cats? None of these diseases were dropping in number because of modern toilets or cleaner kitchens. When I was a child kids around us in Brooklyn NY were getting polio and ending up in iron lungs and some died. Do you know that? Where were you and these quacks in the 1940s and 50s before we were all vaccinated? Not one of the children who were vaccinated with me developed polio. And no sewerage was running in the streets or public water pumps in those days.

When you're in a corner you refuse to address the issues being discussed, ignore them and come up with more alt med sites written by nobodies mostly and pro writers and paid shills.

You like to assume allot about me. Distemper BTW in dogs is not wiped out and you can take that from someone who is in the animal medical field. Did you know that that's why I originally began to question medicine. Seeing vets in multiple offices medicate an animal just so they can say something is wrong with it and make some money. After seeing cats come in DEAD 4 hours after vaccines. Dogs with grand-mal seizures a mere 10 minutes after vaccination. Even your pets vaccinations aren't 100% accurate but all vets and vet techs are taught in vet school is how to administer them correctly and the scare tactics used to make pet owners get them.

NO not all diseases need poor sanitation to spread but without GOOD sanitation such as hand washing diseases would be much more prevalent.

Chicken pox is not life threatening in most cases, just uncomfortable. Polio is an unfortunate virus and I have only begun my rescearch into it so I will honestly say I don't feel comfortable saying anything either way about it. Influenza again not fun but not deadly when treated with respect, fluids are the key here as well as staying well rested, the body will fight it. Almost all flue deaths are elderly or people who didn't take care of themselves while they were sick. Tetanus is a really great scare tactic for the vaccine industry and something that I DO know about, Tetanus in the US is rare and not because of the vaccine but because of would care. Tetanus can not live in an environment without oxygen, the spores are passed widely via soil and farm animal (mainly via feces to the soil) Really though to prevent tetanus basically clean the wound thoroughly and allow the wound to bleed freely at the time of injury which allows the wound to clean itself.

And actually I do advocate a change in the mean and dairy industry NO MORE HORMONES which are major killers, but really our body's don't need meat. Cars kill so car makers strive for safer cars, vaccine makers hide behind the government and make more money.
 
Ill just agree to disagree. All I can say is that I've cured myself of a blood infection overnight.

People do often spontaneously get over bacterial infections. I don't want others to be misled. And again, did you have the blood work done to see what kind of infection you believe you had? What bacteria was causing it?
 
Plus I'm not selling anything. The bacon I thought was total bs. I tried to dig the splinter out but it was too deep so I was willing to try anything. And as deep as it was, the next day it was out. Bacon pulls wood splinters.

You can work for the alt med sites with claims like these. They'll pay you good money for such claims and testimonials. :) I'm sure you autoclaved the bacon to kill any bacteria on it.......

Any fatty animal meat is supposed to work. And I can't back it up with a medical report since I refuse to go to a doctor for anything I can fix myself.

Of course you can't back it up, even with pictures you can take yourself. No alt med claims are ever backed up and it would be so easy to do. ;)
 
One quick point that should be mentioned. If there is a doomsday event. Modern medicine will be affected as well.

Indeed it will and many people will die. You will have, among other things, people "playing Dr" for various reasons. For ego. For power. For profit and the quacks will run rampant.

It would be wise to have a back up plan involving alternative medicine Know your herbs and what they do.

It doesn't matter what they can and can't do because they wont be any online hucksters selling them. Health Food stores will be closed. The seeds wont be available. Anything growing wild that is recognized will quickly be pushed to extinction.

It might be the difference between life and death someday. This is a prepping forum. Every discussion ends with a worst case scenario.

The worst case is going back to 1800's medicine when millions died of easily treatable and preventable diseases, infections, infestations..... even the American Indians realized modern medicine saved the lives the Medicine Man failed to heal. They've had medical clinics on the reservations ever since.
 
You like to assume allot about me.

I go by what you write and post here and going by that, there is no need to assume as you make yourself quite clear. You will say almost anything to push your alt med agenda.

Distemper BTW in dogs is not wiped out and you can take that from someone who is in the animal medical field.

I too worked in the animal medical field, for years, before switching over. When dogs are vaccinated against Distemper, they do not get it or if they do, it's so mild it quickly passes. I have NEVER seen any serious reaction in either cats or dogs to being vaccinated. Fatal or serious reactions are very rare so something is wrong with your story. I await the names of the clinics and vets involved so I can do my own research on these places you claim you worked.

Did you know that that's why I originally began to question medicine. Seeing vets in multiple offices medicate an animal just so they can say something is wrong with it and make some money.

So all these vets gave the cats and dogs some mysterious "get-sick-quick-medicine" right there in front of you and the owners to make the animal sick immediately so they could treat it? In multiple offices no less? Just how many job did you have in your 21 years? o_O Something is very wrong with your story. But let's push on. And you failed to report them? Then you are just as guilty. I saw some incompetent Vets in my day but none who did anything like that. Who are they and who did you report them to? Did you make sure they lost their license? If you can't provide that information then we have to assume you are LYING!

After seeing cats come in DEAD 4 hours after vaccines.

Again, I never saw anything like this. If the cat went into shock it would die rapidly without help, not in 4 hours. I'm sure you can prove these allegations by providing the names of these Vets and Animal Clinics who killed cats with vaccines. How many cats were killed and how many had no reaction to the vaccines? IOW, out of every 100 cats, how many died from being vaccinated? Since you reported these vets, you would have copies of this information as proof. I'm sure you can post that here as a jpg.

Dogs with grand-mal seizures a mere 10 minutes after vaccination. Even your pets vaccinations aren't 100% accurate but all vets and vet techs are taught in vet school is how to administer them correctly and the scare tactics used to make pet owners get them.

Again, I never saw anything like this. I'm sure you can prove these allegations, these TESTIMONIALS by providing the names of these Vets and Animal Clinics who gave these dogs seizures with vaccines. How many dogs seized and how many had no reaction to the vaccines? IOW, out of every 100 dogs vaccinated, how many seized? Since you reported these vets, you would have copies of this information also. What does "vaccinations aren't 100% accurate" mean? Accurate for what? Most animals vaccinated will be immunized.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1 2143&aid=961

NO not all diseases need poor sanitation to spread but without GOOD sanitation such as hand washing diseases would be much more prevalent.

You're talking about cat sand dogs now. Dogs and cats don't wash their hands. Panlucopena in cats is rare today due to so many being vaccinated. Washing hands does nothing for airborne disease. And using those hand cleaning wipes does what washing does when no sink and soap are available, so what's your problem?

Chicken pox is not life threatening in most cases, just uncomfortable. Polio is an unfortunate virus and I have only begun my rescearch into it so I will honestly say I don't feel comfortable saying anything either way about it.

Chicken Pox can indeed be one nasty viral disease. It can be more than uncomfortable. It can kill. It can also cause shingles years later with it's complications:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/chickenpox/DS00053/DSECTION=complications

Kids DIED and ended up in iron lungs when I was small. Some were left paralyzed and crippled. Yes, kids on my street and in my school. The numbers of children catching Polio were not dropping. Once we were all vaccinated in the 1950s, polio all but died out in NYC. Without the vaccine, the disease would have kept killing and crippling children. Cities all over the USA and world used the vaccine to all but wipe the disease out. It only exists in numbers where people don't vaccinate their children. Some children are immune from constant tiny exposures from an early age where polio is prevalent.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/polio/DS00572/DSECTION=complications

Influenza again not fun but not deadly when treated with respect, fluids are the key here as well as staying well rested, the body will fight it.

Sad that at age 21 you never heard of the flu pandemic of 1918 when about 20 to 50 million died. No one even knows the actual number of deaths. Any Flu can mutate and turn hot and deadly. Most people survive the Flus that are common today... but the elderly and very young and immune suppressed can still die. It can lead to opportunistic bacterial invaders. The flu that went around when I was a teenager killed hundreds of people in NYC tri-state area.

Almost all flue deaths are elderly or people who didn't take care of themselves while they were sick.

Where can I find that information? Google does not bring up anything even remotely suggesting that "almost all flue deaths are elderly or people who didn't take care of themselves while they were sick." Where the hell did you get THAT from? o_O

Tetanus is a really great scare tactic for the vaccine industry and something that I DO know about, Tetanus in the US is rare and not because of the vaccine but because of would care. Tetanus can not live in an environment without oxygen, the spores are passed widely via soil and farm animal (mainly via feces to the soil) Really though to prevent tetanus basically clean the wound thoroughly and allow the wound to bleed freely at the time of injury which allows the wound to clean itself.

You're WRONG again and giving bad information yet again. Tetanus spores thrive in low oxygen punctures.... they germinate and spread. You can die from this disease. You are giving out WRONG and poor advice that can kill people and their pet dogs and cats. I don't know what your motive can possible be. But you need to do a lot of research before you post.

http://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p4220.pdf

The bacteria usually enter the
human body through a puncture (in the presence of
anaerobic [low oxygen] conditions, the spores will
germinate).

And actually I do advocate a change in the mean and dairy industry NO MORE HORMONES which are major killers, but really our body's don't need meat. Cars kill so car makers strive for safer cars, vaccine makers hide behind the government and make more money.

Vaccine makers can't hide behind the Gov. to make more money. That's your fantasy and the silly claims of the alt med quacks who want to sell you their wares when you become sick. ;) Of course we don't need meat. That's nothing new and as for hormones, you can find organic raised beef and other meats.

Quacks you worship and never question hide and practice in Mexico and others hide behind websites selling useless cures to make billions a year..... they're safe from the law when they kill people or animals with their cures, potions, supplements, magic zappers and tell outright lies and give out WRONG information written by people like Marge.

And I notice you AGAIN refused to answer simple questions I asked you. You are just like the quacks on the quack sites. They too will not even attempt to answer the hard questions.

Lets try again with a simple disease you claim Drs can cure but will not so they can keep making money like the Quacks:

What do your alt meds SELL people with epilepsy that cures them? And remember, you said anyone who charges and doesn't CURE is only out to make money so recommend someone for my neighbor who can CURE him for FREE. If all you have is someone to cure him for MONEY, that's OK too. So tell me, what is the CURE for epilepsy?

Oh wait, that's one of the diseases the alt meds never came up with a CURE for, just like Lupus and the others you blame on Drs and the health care industry. ;)
 
WOW, great thread! I'm glad to see a balanced debate happening rather than the promotion of just one idea.

Just my two cents: the truth usually falls somewhere in the middle doesn't it?

alternative medical options will be important if SHTF, yes?
exposure is proven to train and develop the immune system, yes?
The young and the elderly are more vulnerable and need to take additional precautions to stay healthy, yes?
millions of lives have been saved since the implementation of vaccine programs, yes?

We have been told so many lies by the powers that be that many refuse to trust anything anymore. For what it's worth my family is vaccinated.
 

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