Radiation - How to guard against it.
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Our friend and lawyer used to live in the shadow of a nuclear power plant. Like, no kidding, in the fall when all the leaves fell off the trees, you could see the cooling tower.
Many of her neighbors worked at the plant.
They have a vested personal interest in the plant not melting down.
Many of her neighbors worked at the plant.
They have a vested personal interest in the plant not melting down.
Schattentarn
A True Doomsday Prepper
I am a bit worried about a nuclear leak event and prevailing winds bringing it to me. A gas mask might be a temporary fix. So I am looking at Russian masks. The American models are just face masks and you have to shave off your beard to make them work. They are dependent on an additional covering going over your head. The Russian masks just go over your head. They also come with modern American M40 filters. Here is a view of that mask (a cheap one).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Soviet-Rus...493844?hash=item421f829814:g:xswAAOSwojdbPg7o
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Soviet-Rus...493844?hash=item421f829814:g:xswAAOSwojdbPg7o
In dealing with radiation remember T, D, S, T being the length of time you are exposed to it, D is the distance you are from the source, And S being the type of shielding you have available or used, These 3 items determine the amount of damage to you from an exposure!!! YOU dont want to glow in the dark!!!!
I acyually have a fallout shelter built in 1962 at my house and its fully equiped!!RADS/HR are so much easier to calculate than curies/millisieverts/Sieverts/Grays/ megabecqueres. Cruddy metric system! USA USA USA (I jest)
Also remember the gas masks have different types of filters for different types of threats, they are NOT one filter fits all!!
Back in the 1970's me and a like minded friend, discovered an abandoned copper mine while hunting. It was about 6 miles from any paved road and a mile and a half from any drivable road. Then a difficult hike up a steep mountain. Upon observation we found there was a zig-zag mule trail going around and down the mountain. It went straight back in, being about 9 feet high and 6 feet wide, cut and blasted for about 120 feet. Then it turned left and right. the right turn ended at a small room. The left opened up into a huge gallery, about 10 feet wide and 12 feet high and 30 feet long. At the end of that room was a short left and a short right and another small room about 6 feet by 8 feet and 7 feet high. A trip to the courthouse showed this claim and several others on the same mountain had been patented in 1908. No assay work had been documented after 1912. So it was our property as much as anyone else. We set about to make the perfect fallout shelter and bug out location. For several years we stocked this place. Carrying food and water and guns and ammo to this remote place. When it was full we made it look as if the door had caved in.
30 years go by. My son asked me to take him to this shelter that I had spoken of. "OK" We did the drive and the hike and found... almost nothing, The bears had denned there, the rats had feasted there, and peed and pooped there. The guns had rusted. The ammo had been soaked and been made useless. Nothing of any use at all except a bottle of Everclear. My son drove us home.
30 years go by. My son asked me to take him to this shelter that I had spoken of. "OK" We did the drive and the hike and found... almost nothing, The bears had denned there, the rats had feasted there, and peed and pooped there. The guns had rusted. The ammo had been soaked and been made useless. Nothing of any use at all except a bottle of Everclear. My son drove us home.
To quote U.S. Army BGen A. McAuliffe, "NUTS!"
Schattentarn
A True Doomsday Prepper
They will take a NATO M40 filter. I bought two of these.
US Army Issue NBC C2 M40 & M40A1 Gas Mask Filter Sealed in Metal Tin NOS | eBay
Trihonda
Active Member
Back in the 80's, My dad was passionate about surviving a nuclear war. he was a civil instructor (for the military), teaching post nuclear detonation survival. He knew where where bombs would fall, blast radius size, what radiation, and how to build a shelter. He was a prodigy, and absolutely brilliant... But he could never apply himself or focus (ADHD?). Anyway, his passion to spread the word about survival led to his creating a role playing game called "Survive". I just found all his old manuscripts (printed on old library word processors, lol). I had it transcribed to modern documents, and am now in the process of testing the game for modern distribution. Why give this background? Because I'm going to copy and paste the RADEF section (not edited or updated from what my dad wrote in the 80's). This was my dad's life work, and is for entertainment purposes only. Use this info at your own risk, but my dad did know his stuff...
APPENDIX A: PRINCIPLES OF RADIOLOGICAL DEFENSE (RADEF)
Fallout radiation is one of the least understood hazards that will be faced following any nuclear exchange. Fallout radiation is not a gas. Fallout comes from the tons of earth, rock, and concrete vaporized in a nuclear surface burst. The vaporized material is carried upward as the fireball rises to form the toroidal “mushroom” cloud. Churned and mixed with the 80 or so radioactive isotopes produced in the nuclear fission of the warhead (the fusion portion is “clean”), this material cools and condenses first into molten globs, and then particles, ranging in size from fine sand to small marbles. The isotopes within these particles give off the radiation that is so hazardous.
Each of the 80 odd isotopes gives off one of three types of radiation. Alpha particles are very low energy, and are only a threat if the fallout particle is inhaled or ingested. Beta particles are of a slightly higher level of energy, and can also cause “Beta burns” from fallout in contact with the skin. Gamma rays are very high energy, and very penetrating. A Gamma ray can pass through the entire body, destroying or damaging many of the cells it contacts. Enough exposure to Gamma radiation will kill enough cells to make a person ill for weeks. A larger exposure can kill or leave one disabled for months or even years.
Each of the isotopes mixed up in the fallout particles decays (loses radioactivity) at it’s own rate. The time it takes for any given isotope to lose half its radioactivity is the “half-life” of that isotope. The isotopes with the shortest half lives will emit radiation at a much higher rate, and those with the longest will emit at lower rates, thus being far less of a threat unless ingested or inhaled. Since the rough distribution of isotopes and their decay rates are known, an overall decay curve can be determined. This curve is expressed in the “Seven-Ten Rule”; For every SEVENFOLD increase in TIME, there will be a TENFOLD decrease in the rate at which radiation will be emitted. Thus, if the rate at H+1 hour was 250 rad per hour, then at H+7 hours, the rate would be 25 rad per hour, at H+49 hours (2 days) it would be 2.5 rad per hour, and at 2 weeks the rate would be down to .25 rad per hour. At this rate (.25 rad per hour) emergence from a shelter may be safely accomplished wearing a respiratory filter or gas mask and clothing to prevent contact with the skin (an anticontamination “RAD” suit). At this point, the job of rebuilding civilization can begin.
Protection from fallout (until TIME has reduced the hazard) can be provided by either MASS or DISTANCE (or a combination of BOTH). MASS attenuates (lessons) radiation because a Gamma ray must “spend” energy to get through. The thickness of any shielding material that will only allow half of the exposure is called the “half thickness” (HT) of that material. For example, one HT will allow half the radiation through, a second HT will allow only half of THAT radiation, a third HT will only allow half of the radiation that passes through the second, and so on. Thus, one HT gives a Protection Factor (PF) of two; two HT gives a PF of four; three HT will yield a PF of eight; four HT gives PF-16, and so on. Each additional HT of any material added to the shielding will DOUBLE the PF that is provided. (See PF table at the end of this appendix).
Distance attenuates radiation of all kinds according to the inverse square law. If the intensity of any radiation at any given base distance from its source is know, the intensity at any multiple of that base will be 1 over (fractional) the square of that multiple. The standard RADEF base distance is 3 feet, this at 6 feet (multiple of 2) there would be 1/3x3 or 1/9; at 12 feet (multiple of 4) intensity would be 1/4x4 of 1/16 of base. A chart showing the distances at which PF is achieved is as follows:
INSERT: Half Thickness Charts.
APPENDIX A: PRINCIPLES OF RADIOLOGICAL DEFENSE (RADEF)
Fallout radiation is one of the least understood hazards that will be faced following any nuclear exchange. Fallout radiation is not a gas. Fallout comes from the tons of earth, rock, and concrete vaporized in a nuclear surface burst. The vaporized material is carried upward as the fireball rises to form the toroidal “mushroom” cloud. Churned and mixed with the 80 or so radioactive isotopes produced in the nuclear fission of the warhead (the fusion portion is “clean”), this material cools and condenses first into molten globs, and then particles, ranging in size from fine sand to small marbles. The isotopes within these particles give off the radiation that is so hazardous.
Each of the 80 odd isotopes gives off one of three types of radiation. Alpha particles are very low energy, and are only a threat if the fallout particle is inhaled or ingested. Beta particles are of a slightly higher level of energy, and can also cause “Beta burns” from fallout in contact with the skin. Gamma rays are very high energy, and very penetrating. A Gamma ray can pass through the entire body, destroying or damaging many of the cells it contacts. Enough exposure to Gamma radiation will kill enough cells to make a person ill for weeks. A larger exposure can kill or leave one disabled for months or even years.
Each of the isotopes mixed up in the fallout particles decays (loses radioactivity) at it’s own rate. The time it takes for any given isotope to lose half its radioactivity is the “half-life” of that isotope. The isotopes with the shortest half lives will emit radiation at a much higher rate, and those with the longest will emit at lower rates, thus being far less of a threat unless ingested or inhaled. Since the rough distribution of isotopes and their decay rates are known, an overall decay curve can be determined. This curve is expressed in the “Seven-Ten Rule”; For every SEVENFOLD increase in TIME, there will be a TENFOLD decrease in the rate at which radiation will be emitted. Thus, if the rate at H+1 hour was 250 rad per hour, then at H+7 hours, the rate would be 25 rad per hour, at H+49 hours (2 days) it would be 2.5 rad per hour, and at 2 weeks the rate would be down to .25 rad per hour. At this rate (.25 rad per hour) emergence from a shelter may be safely accomplished wearing a respiratory filter or gas mask and clothing to prevent contact with the skin (an anticontamination “RAD” suit). At this point, the job of rebuilding civilization can begin.
Protection from fallout (until TIME has reduced the hazard) can be provided by either MASS or DISTANCE (or a combination of BOTH). MASS attenuates (lessons) radiation because a Gamma ray must “spend” energy to get through. The thickness of any shielding material that will only allow half of the exposure is called the “half thickness” (HT) of that material. For example, one HT will allow half the radiation through, a second HT will allow only half of THAT radiation, a third HT will only allow half of the radiation that passes through the second, and so on. Thus, one HT gives a Protection Factor (PF) of two; two HT gives a PF of four; three HT will yield a PF of eight; four HT gives PF-16, and so on. Each additional HT of any material added to the shielding will DOUBLE the PF that is provided. (See PF table at the end of this appendix).
Distance attenuates radiation of all kinds according to the inverse square law. If the intensity of any radiation at any given base distance from its source is know, the intensity at any multiple of that base will be 1 over (fractional) the square of that multiple. The standard RADEF base distance is 3 feet, this at 6 feet (multiple of 2) there would be 1/3x3 or 1/9; at 12 feet (multiple of 4) intensity would be 1/4x4 of 1/16 of base. A chart showing the distances at which PF is achieved is as follows:
INSERT: Half Thickness Charts.
bigpaul
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I do not see the point in surviving a nuclear incident if the fallout eradicates all the natural flora and fauna, kills all the animals and makes the soil acid and unusable, the fallout from Chernobyl reached Wales and Welsh lamb was unsellable. whats the point in surviving a blast if you then die of starvation once your stockpile is used up.
Hey, ok. I concede. After extensive research of scholarly text, I was able to find that we are able to test objects at an obscene 3 million rads (cockroaches bacteria, etc...). "Most commercial electronics can survive radiation levels in silicon of at least 500 to 1000 rads. Some commercial devices can survive levels higher than that but you’re just never sure when it’s going to lose functionality unless detailed testing has been done in advance. The most radiation-hardened electronics can survive levels of radiation that are hundreds of thousands of times greater than what a human can survive, more than a million rads,"says Dan Fleetwood, an expert in radiation-resistant devices at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee.
I 'm guessing semiconductors' were also on that list too. But, I do still worry about the waste that is still stored on all those sites and what would become of it if a plant took a hit...
Below is a pretty cool article from AMERICAN ENTOMOLOGIST • Fall 2001 on Radiation experiments on different lifeforms.
https://academic.oup.com/ae/article/47/3/132/2389590
The odds are not 0. Something in all us makes us not want to give up. About two hundred and two million years ago, last Tuesday, There was a great extinction call the Permian. It was caused by volcanoes. About 90% of life was wiped out. Ten million years later life was starting to come back. Even in a worst case nuclear war, pockets of humanity and even technology may survive. Never give up!
Arcticdude
Top Poster
If that mine was patented in 1908 then someone was granted a deed to the land. If it was an un-patented mine, and the owner didn't keep up on the annual assessment work, then it could be open to filling a new claim.
bigpaul
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I dont think I can wait 10 million years for my next meal! ROTFLMAO.
Trihonda
Active Member
I could be wrong, and I’m only going off what my dad used to profess (he WAS the expert), but he made it sound viable to grow food/livestock post nuclear event. This was assuming full scale attacks on all major cities, etc.
my dad used to indicate that after two weeks, it’s possible to emerge from a fallout shelter and roam around without danger (so long as you used some PPE for a time). You also needed to factor in local weather patterns (west to east winds) and avoid blast zones and anything downwind, for quite some time. but this was maybe 10-20 miles or so downwind. I’ll have to study up on my dads game manuscripts, as he laid it out in more detail.
some of the recommendations he used to espouse were green houses, and staying upwind.
i‘m in the camp of survival no matter what. I certainly hope we never face a nuclear war, as it’s probably the worst case shit show we could face. But I’m doing whatever I can to survive.
bigpaul
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I'm also in that same camp, in fact I always say I will be last man standing.
but after Chernobyl and even today 30 odd years later there is still radioactivity in parts of Britain where the fallout contaminated the ground.
but after Chernobyl and even today 30 odd years later there is still radioactivity in parts of Britain where the fallout contaminated the ground.
Trihonda
Active Member
I wonder if there is some reason Chernobyl caused so many long term issues? Is a nuclear plant meltdown worse than a nuclear warhead detonation? I honestly dont know. I should read up on Japans recovery after Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Have they have such long term issues with growing crops? I know there was a lot of radiation related cancers and such, but then the populace had no idea how to defend or protect the,selves from fallout. i know what I’ll be doing today... research.
bigpaul
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well the area around Chernobyl is still contaminated and people are still banned from living there.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki have I think been rebuilt and people are living there.
so on that basis I am assuming there IS a difference between a nuclear missile and a power plant explosion.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki have I think been rebuilt and people are living there.
so on that basis I am assuming there IS a difference between a nuclear missile and a power plant explosion.
Trihonda
Active Member
ya, feels like a power plant would have FAR more radioactive material than a warhead...
