Off-side carry

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user 7650

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I have done extensive work in fields where I had to carry a firearm every day. One of the conversations that I routinely have with people was the conversation of knives while on duty. I’m not going to lie, it’s a pet peeve of mine when I see a knife on the right side of a right handed shooter. The common response when I ask these professionals why they carry a blade on their right side (if they don’t carry it as a simple tool) is that they carry the blade to get someone off them if someone is attempting to take their firearm. The obvious issue with this mindset is that if the knife is on the right side (the same side as the gun for most people if it’s a sidearm) then that hand will be busy maintaining positive control of the weapon. This means that the blade should be carried on the opposite side of the firearm (left side if you’re a right handed shooter) so that you can use the blade with your left hand to get them off you and then transition to your firearm immediately with your right. Practice drawing and using your blade on the offside to make this happen. The vast majority of these will be folders or spring assisted/ Emerson waves. Practice, practice, practice. You’re life may depend on it. This holds true for concealed carry as well in my opinion.

Let me know if you agree.
 
That makes sense for some. About the only time I carry a firearm is on the trap line. I have a fixed blade knife on the right side on my gun belt, same as the gun. It works for me. I'll never be in a situation where I'll be in a struggle with a bad guy where I need a gun and a knife. I also carry a Leatherman on my belt and a spring assist in my pocket.
 
That makes sense for some. About the only time I carry a firearm is on the trap line. I have a fixed blade knife on the right side on my gun belt, same as the gun. It works for me. I'll never be in a situation where I'll be in a struggle with a bad guy where I need a gun and a knife. I also carry a Leatherman on my belt and a spring assist in my pocket.
Never say never
 
I have done extensive work in fields where I had to carry a firearm every day. One of the conversations that I routinely have with people was the conversation of knives while on duty. I’m not going to lie, it’s a pet peeve of mine when I see a knife on the right side of a right handed shooter.
Why? Not all knives are planned to be weapons. Of course they can be, but who carries his daily knife for fighting in the first place.
The common response when I ask these professionals why they carry a blade on their right side (if they don’t carry it as a simple tool) is that they carry the blade to get someone off them if someone is attempting to take their firearm. The obvious issue with this mindset is that if the knife is on the right side (the same side as the gun for most people if it’s a sidearm) then that hand will be busy maintaining positive control of the weapon. This means that the blade should be carried on the opposite side of the firearm (left side if you’re a right handed shooter) so that you can use the blade with your left hand to get them off you and then transition to your firearm immediately with your right. Practice drawing and using your blade on the offside to make this happen.
Your explanation makes sense. That´s why I´ve got a dagger attached on my carrier, that I can reach easily with both hands.
The vast majority of these will be folders or spring assisted/ Emerson waves.
What about fixed blades? I like the Benchmade SOCP or the KCCEDGE S-Tac for example.
practice, practice, practice. You’re life may depend on it. This holds true for concealed carry as well in my opinion.

Let me know if you agree.
Training - that´s always the undervalued issue.
 
I carry a knife as a tool, on the right, because I am right handed. If I ever got in a fight over my gun, and have a free hand (to grab a knife from anywhere on my person), it would be so much easier and faster to just shove a finger into their eye socket or their trach.
 
I carry a knife as a tool, on the right, because I am right handed. If I ever got in a fight over my gun, and have a free hand (to grab a knife from anywhere on my person), it would be so much easier and faster to just shove a finger into their eye socket or their trach.
It´s easier to stab a piece of metal into sombody than sinking your own fingers through some strangers eyeballs.... I´m not saying, your technic won´t work. I know it does.
 
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Why? Not all knives are planned to be weapons. Of course they can be, but who carries his daily knife for fighting in the first place.

Your explanation makes sense. That´s why I´ve got a dagger attached on my carrier, that I can reach easily with both hands.

What about fixed blades? I like the Benchmade SOCP or the KCCEDGE S-Tac for example.

Training - that´s always the undervalued issue.
As to your first question, I addressed this.


I am glad that you agree, it’s always a pleasure to talk to like minded individuals.

I stated the “vast majority” would be folders as most people carry these; I never said no other blades were included in this train of thought. A fixed blade would operate on the same principle in my opinion. I, for example, carry a karambit on my kit on the left side. I prefer this style since it has a ring and I can immediately transition back to my rifle after creating space without worry of weapon retention with my blade. It’s a small knife, but more than capable.

I agree with your last comment. Training is always the most important prep.
 
I carry a knife as a tool, on the right, because I am right handed. If I ever got in a fight over my gun, and have a free hand (to grab a knife from anywhere on my person), it would be so much easier and faster to just shove a finger into their eye socket or their trach.
While an eye gouge is effective it is also not as easy to pull off as many people seem to believe. We, as human beings, have become very adept at protecting our face. Eyes are also a very small target, and in a high stress situation it can become difficult to do this as effectively as you might want to without getting harmed yourself.

Throughout history it’s been proven that weapons win fights. Over all, your rates of success ( and in this scenario rates of survival) go up dramatically when you are armed. A blade will create that space for you in an up close violent encounter better than your favorite finger. However, you should carry and do only what you’re comfortable with and what is of course legal and ethical.
 
While an eye gouge is effective it is also not as easy to pull off as many people seem to believe. We, as human beings, have become very adept at protecting our face. Eyes are also a very small target, and in a high stress situation it can become difficult to do this as effectively as you might want to without getting harmed yourself.

Throughout history it’s been proven that weapons win fights. Over all, your rates of success ( and in this scenario rates of survival) go up dramatically when you are armed. A blade will create that space for you in an up close violent encounter better than your favorite finger. However, you should carry and do only what you’re comfortable with and what is of course legal and ethical.

Well, in my neck of the woods, for now, my gun is carried concealed. MANY people here carry a folding blade in the pocket top, or waistband. The problem with those is you have to (in your scenario) fish it out, then get it open with one hand, all while fighting for your life (and gun) with one free hand. Low probability of success, compared to fighting for your gun, and trying to get to an eye, or a throat punch when you get a chance. Not sure your history, but I have a long history of college level sports, martial arts, and bouncing in some pretty seedy places. I have at least a thousand fights under my belt (including the octagon with other trained fighters). So, I have a pretty good idea of what actually works in a real life fight.

Now, if you are talking about a world WROL, yes, I would certainly have a fixed blade or two easily accessible for use as a weapon.

Of course, the BEST scenario is one where you don't have to fight for your gun, because you have great situational awareness, didn't let someone get too close, and aren't afraid to shoot someone in the face if you had to draw it to begin with. If someone gets the drop on you, it's kind of too late to be going for your gun. Then you have to fight to create distance, or end the threat another way.

Soooo many what ifs..

Edit: also, if they are "adept at protecting their face" during this fight over a gun, then they aren't really fighting for the gun anymore because they are protecting their face. I have met many people that tried to show me their "impossible to get out of hold", and I beat them every single time in a couple of seconds. They are so focused on their "move", they are shocked when I grab their junk. Real life is not the dojo, a cage fight, or a movie.
 
Well, in my neck of the woods, for now, my gun is carried concealed. MANY people here carry a folding blade in the pocket top, or waistband. The problem with those is you have to (in your scenario) fish it out, then get it open with one hand, all while fighting for your life (and gun) with one free hand. Low probability of success, compared to fighting for your gun, and trying to get to an eye, or a throat punch when you get a chance. Not sure your history, but I have a long history of college level sports, martial arts, and bouncing in some pretty seedy places. I have at least a thousand fights under my belt (including the octagon with other trained fighters). So, I have a pretty good idea of what actually works in a real life fight.

Now, if you are talking about a world WROL, yes, I would certainly have a fixed blade or two easily accessible for use as a weapon.

Of course, the BEST scenario is one where you don't have to fight for your gun, because you have great situational awareness, didn't let someone get too close, and aren't afraid to shoot someone in the face if you had to draw it to begin with. If someone gets the drop on you, it's kind of too late to be going for your gun. Then you have to fight to create distance, or end the threat another way.

Soooo many what ifs..

Edit: also, if they are "adept at protecting their face" during this fight over a gun, then they aren't really fighting for the gun anymore because they are protecting their face. I have met many people that tried to show me their "impossible to get out of hold", and I beat them every single time in a couple of seconds. They are so focused on their "move", they are shocked when I grab their junk. Real life is not the dojo, a cage fight, or a movie.
a clip blade can come out pretty fast with muscle memory. If the blade is deep in the pocket then you would be correct it would be a low probability of success. A thousand fights huh? I also have a history of bouncing, corrections, military, and private security contracting.

I guess we have different experiences with how people protect their face. For example, if I am going for your gun my face will be glued to that corresponding side of your body and there would be very very little space between us thus my face would be protected. I would also be controlling your hips glueing you to me. Space is the enemy with what my Intentions are. There is more than one way to protect the face.

I appreciate your opinion. Thank you for your insight.
 
When I EDCCW carried, it was accessible to my right hand. Usually tucked in my belly. only exception was when I carried my 9 under shoulder. Cant do that in the summer
Might have had a box cutter in anyone one of 3 pockets. My wallet was alway tucked away in the truck
I knew where my go to was. Not many people, including here, have actually pulled their weapon on someone. I have 3 times. Back when I was young thought I could scare them off, I did.
Never ever ever again. If I pull it, I shoot. I can claim the elder abuse card. I am grey enough.
 
As to your first question, I addressed this.


I am glad that you agree, it’s always a pleasure to talk to like minded individuals.

I stated the “vast majority” would be folders as most people carry these; I never said no other blades were included in this train of thought. A fixed blade would operate on the same principle in my opinion. I, for example, carry a karambit on my kit on the left side. I prefer this style since it has a ring and I can immediately transition back to my rifle after creating space without worry of weapon retention with my blade. It’s a small knife, but more than capable.

I agree with your last comment. Training is always the most important prep.
 
I favor a small fixed blade at my 11:30 along my waistline with the handle facing out from my body so that I can use my left hand to pull from the sheath while my right hand is busy either trying to pin the other guy’s hand that is going for my gun or I’m actually drawing the gun myself. This is what I’ve been using recently and it works great. A Cold Steel Safemaker 2 push dagger with a custom made sheath that allows for a horizontal carry, with the handle facing outward.

Incidentally, I also carry a small folder in my pocket (recently it’s been a Spyderco Dragonfly) for everyday cutting tasks. I’ve never been of the opinion that a folder was a great idea for self-defense use (even a waved one). I have a number of waved pocket knives and they can be finicky to deploy. Imagine having someone on top of you, bashing your head in and try to get that waved knife out of your pocket at the precise angle so that the small piece of protruding metal catches your seam pocket perfectly. Ummm, yeah. Another great knife is the Kbar TDI. I carry this one as well, same place at my 11:30. It’s very intuitive to just get your hand in front of you and feel for the handle.
 

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When I EDCCW carried, it was accessible to my right hand. Usually tucked in my belly. only exception was when I carried my 9 under shoulder. Cant do that in the summer
Might have had a box cutter in anyone one of 3 pockets. My wallet was alway tucked away in the truck
I knew where my go to was. Not many people, including here, have actually pulled their weapon on someone. I have 3 times. Back when I was young thought I could scare them off, I did.
Never ever ever again. If I pull it, I shoot. I can claim the elder abuse card. I am grey enough.
Grey hair comes with privileges my friend. 😅
 
I favor a small fixed blade at my 11:30 along my waistline with the handle facing out from my body so that I can use my left hand to pull from the sheath while my right hand is busy either trying to pin the other guy’s hand that is going for my gun or I’m actually drawing the gun myself. This is what I’ve been using recently and it works great. A Cold Steel Safemaker 2 push dagger with a custom made sheath that allows for a horizontal carry, with the handle facing outward.

Incidentally, I also carry a small folder in my pocket (recently it’s been a Spyderco Dragonfly) for everyday cutting tasks. I’ve never been of the opinion that a folder was a great idea for self-defense use (even a waved one). I have a number of waved pocket knives and they can be finicky to deploy. Imagine having someone on top of you, bashing your head in and try to get that waved knife out of your pocket at the precise angle so that the small piece of protruding metal catches your seam pocket perfectly. Ummm, yeah. Another great knife is the Kbar TDI. I carry this one as well, same place at my 11:30. It’s very intuitive to just get your hand in front of you and feel for the handle.
These are beautiful options. The 1130 carry position is ideal for small blades like this. I carry a CRKT spew in a similar way for EDC.

I have very seriously considered a punch knife (or push knife? I’m not sure the proper term sorry) like the one you have. Just haven’t went and got it because I’m concerned it might not be comfortable with the blade between my fingers. Once again I don’t have much experience with them; have you found this to be an issue?

Folders for sure have their drawbacks. I will agree with you on that point, especially on the ground. However, I think with training it is still a potential option. Just another tool on the tool belt so to speak.
 
These are beautiful options. The 1130 carry position is ideal for small blades like this. I carry a CRKT spew in a similar way for EDC.

I have very seriously considered a punch knife (or push knife? I’m not sure the proper term sorry) like the one you have. Just haven’t went and got it because I’m concerned it might not be comfortable with the blade between my fingers. Once again I don’t have much experience with them; have you found this to be an issue?

Folders for sure have their drawbacks. I will agree with you on that point, especially on the ground. However, I think with training it is still a potential option. Just another tool on the tool belt so to speak.
I have a few push daggers and you are right, some can be very uncomfortable. A couple of them I would really hesitate to punch something for fear of injuring my hand. This particular model (Cold Steel Safemaker 2) though is very comfortable, with a grippy rubber handle and good ergos. It really locks in and there is nowhere for it to go but where you strike with it. There is absolutely no way and assailant could get that knife out of your hand while you are making a fist. Also, they are a relative cheap. This one I paid about $30 for. I did have to have a custom made sheath for it to allow a horizontal carry but it was worth it. The stock sheath from Cold Steel is actually quite good but it only allows a vertical carry.

There is also a Safemaker 1 model which is significantly larger but it has the same great ergos and handle. Give one of those a shot if you are interested in trying out a push dagger. They are fairly cheap, very well constructed, with sharp double edges and quite good AUS8 steel. Of course, a push dagger is really a one trick pony (not a great EDC blade for anything else) but that’s all I want one for, to do some damage with my off hand to get some space between me and an attacker in order to draw my pistol.
 
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I have a few push daggers and you are right, some can be very uncomfortable. A couple of them I would really hesitate to punch something for fear of injuring my hand. This particular model (Cold Steel Safemaker 2) though is very comfortable, with a grippy rubber handle and good ergos. It really locks in and there is nowhere for it to go but where you strike with it. There is absolutely no way and assailant could get that knife out of your hand while you are making a fist. Also, they are a relative cheap. This one I paid about $30 for. I did have to have a custom made sheath for it to allow a horizontal carry but it was worth it. The stock sheath from Cold Steel is actually quite good but it only allows a vertical carry.

There is also a Safemaker 1 model which is significantly larger but it has the same great ergos and handle. Give one of those a shot if you are interested in trying out a push dagger. They are fairly cheap, very well constructed, with sharp double edges and quite good AUS8 steel. Of course, a push dagger is really a one trick pony (not a great EDC blade for anything else) but that’s all I want one for, to do some damage with my off hand to get some space between me and an attacker in order to draw my pistol.
Thank you very much for the advice. I might pick up one.
 
The knife is the quick deploy weapon because it can always be there right where I can reach it and deploy it with one motion, with the pistol I can't. No matter how hard I try I can't come up with a way to deploy the pistol from cover quickly enough for a face to face encounter.
The knife is on a pocket clip with my hand actually touching it when my arm is hanging by my side. With the knife I can deploy and slash the jugular before a face to face attacker knows what happened. If not the throat, it can cut an attacker's arm to the bone though heavy clothing. I skin deer with it, so I know what it can do....
I can't imagine using both at the same time. I don't have the dexterity or coordination for that. So it will be an either/or for me, not both at the same time.
TNHMXLg.gif
 
The knife is the quick deploy weapon because it can always be there right where I can reach it and deploy it with one motion, with the pistol I can't. No matter how hard I try I can't come up with a way to deploy the pistol from cover quickly enough for a face to face encounter.
The knife is on a pocket clip with my hand actually touching it when my arm is hanging by my side. With the knife I can deploy and slash the jugular before a face to face attacker knows what happened. If not the throat, it can cut an attacker's arm to the bone though heavy clothing. I skin deer with it, so I know what it can do....
I can't imagine using both at the same time. I don't have the dexterity or coordination for that. So it will be an either/or for me, not both at the same time.
TNHMXLg.gif
Thank you for your insight.
 

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