my version of a bug in/out home

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jimLE

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this idea is a work in progress,when it comes to ideas...what do yall think of it?

my version of a bug in/out home
1st the property line...it needs to be filled in with trees,under brush and vines of the area of location.each one with thorns when possible.combine with post like you see in front of stores that has parking space there
2nd.come in 20-30 feet and install a tall fence line..(if it's affordable.)
3rd the home barn and other structures needs to be located where it wont be seen from any street back road or highway.
4th acerege.property not only needs to be large enough for the ppl to live on.it also needs to be large enough for streems,creeks,ponds and the needed wells.plus life stock to boot.5 achres for each cow
5th hopefully your already stocking up on foods..store bought and home canning alike.. gardens for the different vegetables.2 different types of same crop can cross pollinate.which means if you get one type of corn that's been genetically altered and another thats heirloom corn,they'll cross pollinate..rendering corn worthless for planting next season.
6th.a barn for horse's and their gear.plus feed for them and other life stock that needs feed as well as grazing grass during growing season.
7th.a source of power.solar,wind,and water.its just a matter of figuring out which one(s) works best for the area.then going with it.
8th..cars,van,trucks and tractors will eventually be worthless due to the shortage of parts.horses and wagons.and a way to build the wagons.
9th a blacksmith shop.it explains it self..
10th the number of ppl on property,within the community.there needs to be at least 40-50 ppl.and devided into groups.1 group for the gardens,1 group for security.1 group for construction,etc etc.
11th..a committy.the owner of said property.plus a even number of others.this way there'll be a odd number total.no stale mate on voteing in new laws n all.
12th.schooling for children.garage sales,library book sales.school sale if any.buy school learning books for each grade.and portable chalk boards,chalk.and something to erase with..the older the book is.the better the learning is..
13th..hunting teams..go out to the furthest points.and work their way in..this way the wild game will be close by during the winter months
14th.there's different areas of expertise..gardening..construction..livestock..water purification.teacher.doctors and nurses.dentist.landscaping..a people person whos good at bartering..security patrols..
 

Silent Bob

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Jim,

  • When you are talking trees, brush, vines are you talking like the hedgerows like in Normandy, France, which gave our infantry in World War 2 fits? Or are you thinking like the rows of hedges that run like the Kentucky Derby? Is the intent to be a barrier or just a soft dividing property line that serves as a temporary barrier for those who are refugees? Is this first line suppose to be a active defense line for your security to man? When you mean trees are you saying they are back from the hedges or actually in between? If I were the OPFOR, I'd love to use the advantage of the trees as an observation point, if your giving it to me on that line without a security detail to confront me, it would give me some leverage to observe you, if I can remain unnoticed, also great spot for trained sniper (not that I can speak as an authority on that subject, but possibly Westcoast, since he is SWAT, he may have attended sniper training. The new guy that posted on, who stated he was a scout/sniper might add to this theory.

  • 20-30 feet okay, unless your thinking kill zone or as secondary defense line, might want to move it back further if you decide its a defensive position. The fence I take it is 8 feet high with razor wire on top? I'd buy more and run razor wire on both sides to prevent someone trying to climb it. Also if your trying to create a kill zone between the hedges and your fence, I'd place IR monitoring systems every 100 feet or when you make the angle cuts back along your property line, tie the IR system to both an outdoor alarm, home computer and radio system, so that your teams can be warned. I just know the theory, not the expert in Signal, may consider using solar energy grid to support the alarm system. Might consider talking to anyone who works in oil or gas development in your area, they may use IR system to prevent theft on rigs...etc.

  • Okay, now are we talking Texas barn or New York Barn, Jim? Remember who your talking to? New York barn is 2-3 stories high, has high loft, also some good spots to observe from. Some New York ones look like Pennsylvania Amish ones, might want to ask Pottercounty...think if I remember right, he lives in PA, might be able to explain better than I, but the one I worked in as a kid in central New York had a second floor for placing square bails of hay, then their was like a dummy loft above that, more like a landing..that is where I took my girlfriend to watch the view. Okay, my boss didn't know that, but I loved the view. So if your saying that type of barn, its going to stick out like a church steeple. Speaking of church steeple, remember the advantage of height, you can place an observation position there, run a sniper or your primary security out of it, run heat up there, 12-24 hour manning, NVG's, your going to have a great early warning. Me, I am thinking if your not bugging out, I'd have something high up. Refugees are going to see the hedge and like kids are going to want to know what's behind it. Ever been to an amusement park when they are building the new ride, everyone including me, tries to take a peak. So why wouldn't they do the same under desperate situation, unless you place some warning signs on the outside hedges that violators will be executed (hang them up right after SHTF). I know I am going to get a ton of people shooting me down on that one...

  • Also, I'd get Roninsensei's feedback, but after seeing his pictures of his working dog biting his arm, I'd think of running a active man-dog team to circulate through your third line between the fence and the barn/compound. I use to work on military working dogs when I got retrained in the Air Force, I had to assist the Army vet docs, when Air Force was getting out of vet business. I volunteered to help, seemed interesting and met some great handlers. Been years, but when back over in Afghanistan, met some great teams over there. I saw the other day they just retired an Air Force working dog, the MWD saved not only his handler, but then later same day save the entire patrol. Pretty impressive and now he is retiring and going back to his original handler. But I can tell you, no offense, but I've read some threads from Roninsensei and nothing puts shivers up my spine than a determined handler and his dog...either way, if handler is good with his rifle, I lose, if handler doesn't get me, the dog will detain me long enough that handler will put me out of my misery. Either way, I lose again. I don't read the casualty counts on MWD's, guess I am a dog lover and don't want to know how many have gone up on suspected IED's. But I'd look at having one in your case, since you seem to be hunkering down on the farm.

  • All the other stuff, I have no clue, but agree, we'd be moving back to the 1800's, so those logistical bases all make sense. Blacksmith got it for the horses, what about a loom and a mill powered by water or steam plant? Sure you could make an old fashion steam boiler that could produce some limited energy and also heat the home in the winter? I have a small stone that I brought back from the East.

  • Okay do you have some linear pits made that can be built or reinforced with concrete bricks, or maybe consider since you have the land (store the resources and build them during the event). I can send you some basic plans of how to build them either out of concrete and reinforce them with sandbags. While they won't stop a determined RPG or 50 cal, they could hold up well against small caliber arms fire, reinforced with rebar and fill the inner with concrete...you'd have some good fighting holes. Did them into the ground and cammo them up with brush and netting, they would be really a bitch to the OPFOR. The other option is to make dummy ones up and make them look like the real ones and throw your enemy off his game plan. Also again, a great place for your sniper to hide around.

  • As far as water, I'd make sure I had control of it upstream, if not drill for the water table and cap her off. I will send those rain storage tank info as soon as we get the one built promise..but something to think about. Can't remember who I talked to about getting surplus fuel and water bladders to be placed on farm. Also a LP tank farm...you should have experience with that one.
Well I am bushed, maybe relook at your thread later after a few others put in their ideas. I've got a few more, just beat.




 

jimLE

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When you are talking trees, brush, vines are you talking like the hedgerows
im talking about the natural normal wild look right on the property line..and it doubles as a barrier of sorts..it might not stop everyone.but it'll at least slow them down enough where they might rethink things,or make a easier target.no hedges..what you normally see growing wild.if you have trees and other plants along the property line,and be leting it grow wild.then you have a natural wall for hideing the proprety that dont allow people to see every thing else.you mentioned useing trees for observing possible in comeing threats or what ever.pick a tree every few yards.clear a path on the property side,and out of view of roads.rig a laddder of sorts to where you'll be postioned at in the tree.

a fence 20-30 feet back from tree/property line has multi purposes.first it slows intruders even more..and like you pointed out.razor wire on top.plus having that much space between brush/property line and fence gives who ever working patrol plenty of room to do what ever is needed..and maybe have disguised gates ever so often as a form of escape from threats if needed.

as for barns.maybe some thing.but not as large

images (1).jpg


more tomorrow..its late

 

Silent Bob

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Jim

Okay I have a better understanding of what you want on the farm. Since I have lived both overseas and stateside, I get a bit swept away when someone starts placing words on paper. Hard to visualize. I get the barn idea, brother has something like it, not the side overhangs, but similar building concept. Yes and that is what I am eluding to, with a bit of modification you can actually build a loft up there. Are you thinking of a kit?

When I saw the picture before I left for my interview with a new prospect, I thought of the Mennonites who live up near Chickasha, Oklahoma. I met with them back in 2006, when we had the outbreak of wildfires along the North Texas and Oklahoma border. Anyway, about 30 good strapping young men came down with their tools and even one brought in a front end loader to help clear damaged fences lines for the cattle farmers, they stopped into our command post to ask if I knew of any other people who they could help. I've got a background with Mennonites because they all live now around my mom's home. Since she is in her 80's and my brother doesn't have the equipment to do snow removal on the scale that is needed in New York, their is a family that is just down the road from the home that does all the plowing, they also help her clean the brush, do odd and ends, for her. She pays them, but I am very lucky to have them help her. So when you sent that picture, not sure if you were planning to construct one, I thought of them, they told me they could build them in no time flat. Particularly if you had the material already on site. Just thought to help you. Its a pretty large undertaking, but one of necessity.

I'd ask Danil54grl what she thinks, but that is what I would be thinking of building for the long-haul sustainment project. Possibly Gazrok would have a suggestion, he's into farming too. He's mentioned farming a few times on his thead, not sure where he lives in Florida, but Panhandle area doesn't have barns like the picture and when they had a bad accident up on the North 75, right after the Florida Turnpike, on our last pilgrimage to Disneyworld, I had to take the back roads off from exit 329, can't remember the country road I used, but I passed tons of lovely horse farms, my daughter who at the time was 17, has loved horses, road for a while, so we made the stop from the roadside, just so she could enjoy them. I think even one had the miniature ponies, but I don't remember seeing barns with the Steeple design either. Lovely area though and it was a great nice off the intestate find.

Thanks for the clarification on the tree line issue. I wasn't sure how either on how that worked. If I were younger and lived outside the city...I'd opt of the hedgerow deal, I visited Normandy when I was stationed in England, figured I never get another chance to do so and was amazed at the thickness of the Bocage countryside, I made a mental note that if I would have made the drop with either the 101st and 82d, I would have hated the experience of being separated and fighting blind. Those hedgerows were worse than bunkers or pits, you just didn't have the right tools to get through them. Hence why I asked, you have the right theory though.

Yeah, I am thinking on the same thing when it comes to the fence, but am thinking more that it would be extended farther out from the property line, more as the last demarcation line for people who are considering placing their butts into my area.
 

Gazrok

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1st Property Line - Check! (at least on 3 sides, trees grow close enough together to prevent a vehicle passing through. There is then a perimeter fence along the treeline here that is 6' high in most places (8' high on the side without the trees). Where we don't have the trees, post SHTF, I'll be sinking fence posts to create those vehicle barriers you mentioned. We're also ensuring thorny vines grow along the fences.

2nd Fence Line - We have secondary, sometimes tertiary fencing, though this is only 4' high. Still, it presents a good kill-zone.

3rd - The home and garage are visible from the road, but not the two stables or hay storage building. The garden is also not visible from the road.

4th - Acreage. Our acreage is limited (and no cows...pigs and chickens are actually much easier and tighter to keep, as are rabbits). We use a well vs. streams or creeks.

5th - Garden/Food. Stocking up is good, but also growing your own, and using just heirloom seeds/plants. Remember to include water supply for crops in plans.

6th - Horses. Check! We even board others and have a small Tack Shop, along with the stables.

7th - Power. Lacking a bit here. Plan is to add two generators (diesel), and have 4 50 gallon reserve barrels to store (along with Stabil for refreshing). In addition, plan is to convert well to solar power. Will also be making use of smaller solar battery chargers. Lighting is all oil lamps without power, and stored lamp oil.

8th - Travel. We do have horses, but plan to use the trucks as long as we can. One truck can carry a ton of fuel (has a 150 gallon aux tank), so could use it for fuel siphon runs.

9th - Shop. My garage is slowly but surely being transformed into a workshop, including some eventual blacksmithing needs. I also keep a fair amount of no-tech tools (like hand drills, saws, etc.)

10th - People. We won't have 50, more like a dozen or so. But enough to cover vantage points while others sleep, and we have dogs to help as alerts as well as other security measures.

11th - I'd rethink the committee. Our structure is more of Leader with Advisors. Without an ultimate authority, quick action is difficult if not impossible.

12th - Schooling. Yeah, I've thought about this too. Granted, in a post SHTF world, this will be very different. But having some school books on the various subjects is a good idea. I'm a big fan of real books (vs. digital), and we already have quite a bit of books (most of them stored, as we simply don't have room to have them out).

13th - Hunting. We're relying more on animal husbandry and gardening. Hunting will mostly involve fishing in nearby water sources, or birds, snakes, frogs (the latter 3 wouldn't even require leaving the property! lol). Possums, raccoons, squirrel, etc. would be other game, as well as wild rabbits and boars.

14th - Skills. I'm already kind of a Jack of All Trades, but we do have some other skilled folks in our group, including a former EMT and a current cop. We're also big fans of cross-training too, so we don't have all the eggs in one basket.

Seems we have a lot of similar ideas! I figure I've got about 5 years until I've got the majority of preps mostly complete and self-sustaining. Have to budget both time and resources, while not at the expense of currently life, you know?

Other things to consider:

15th - Firing Positions. The house is concrete block, so at least there, we're pretty secure, but my plan is to make some "planters" which are actually concrete pillboxes (post SHTF, we'll just dig out the plants in them) in strategic spots along with safe passage to doors. These will allow sentries to have a safe place to watch the perimeter from. In addition, some firing positions in high places (such as roofs), are likewise a good plan (though may have to be added post SHTF).

16th - Building Supplies. Concrete blocks, nails, screws, hand tools, sandbags, fence posts, lumber, concrete mix, rebar, etc. is good to have too.

17th - Spare parts. As many as you can have, for things you use. Especially vehicles or generators.

18th - Medical Supplies. Try to stock up, and a medicinal herb garden is a plus. Our herb garden is for cooking herbs also (as most have cross uses). You can even grow poppies to make Morphine (post SHTF of course).
 

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