Is anyone in a position to collaborate on a steam engine for electricity generation?

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I have been researching various ways to generate electricity which are sustainable under the worst conditions. Life will change too much for me without electricity. Therefore, I need to be able to make it.

Reluctantly, I have settled on steam.

Wood gasification - dirty, noisy generator (plus future replacement parts issues)
Stirling Engine - too large to be practical (perhaps a small unit driven by steam could be used to produce refrigeration)
Hydro - no moving water near me
Solar - too many panels needed, plus maintenance and replacement issues
Wind - not enough reliable wind near me

While steam has its issues, it is also extremely well-researched and documented.

If anyone wants to discuss actual physical designs, I'd love to collaborate. I have a complete machine shop and 30 years experience in engineering.
 
I'll definitely be following this thread :) !!!

I've wanted to do this for years, unfortunately, the closest I came to owning a lathe, covid struck and the company canceled my order right when I needed the money more. I have Solidworks and a long-forgotten certification in mechanical drafting, so I'd be happy to try helping with the drawings, if needed. Do you have ideas on size, torque, HP, etc. There are a few proven steam valve and governor designs out there on the web... Oiling the engine is something I never looked into, but assume it would use a drip oiler like a hit and miss.. What plans do you have so far?
 
So far my focus is on the size of the boiler, and more importantly, the ability to service and inspect it regularly.

I was going to use plates (I happen to have) and cut out the diameter of the boiler in each plate and then stack each plate until my boiler volume is achieved. Then, using an axial bolting arrangement, compress/bolt them together.

I was going to make the boiler and engine a matched pair -- so no need for excess boiler steam storage. My volume demand will be just the engine.

My engine design is currently two Chevy 350 pistons and a cylinder sleeve made for them. These are cheap, producable in an emergency, but currently readily available. The pistons would be arranged back-to-back for a double-acting engine.

The valve is essentially a reduced-size version of the engine driven out of phase by the flywheel.

I was going to design the boiler to incorporate the flue of a small rocket stove.

I was targeting a pressure of about 250 PSI, power output goal is 20 HP. The pistons are about 12 inches in area, so each push would be about 3,000 lbs. I also want to keep the RPMs down as low as possible for many reasons.

Recovery of the steam is important since I intend to purify the water supplied to the boiler. However, oil separation is an issue. I figured the governor could just be whatever the latest centripetal governor design is.
 
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Disclaimer: I'm no expert, this is a rough estimate only.

You should need about 64 strokes per minute, or 32RPM for a dual acting piston (assuming a 3.48" stroke per chevy sleeve) with the boiler chugging away at 407°F (to get the 250psi) with about 167,000BTU/hr fuel energy going into the boiler (assuming 60% fuel efficiency and a few other assumptions) to make it (20HP) work.

Not sure if you ever worked around steam that temperature before, but in case you have not, you couldn't pass your hand through a steam leak fast enough not to get SEVERE burns, not to mention that kind of steam pressure can cut you like a hot knife if focused into a jet. Steam burns SUCK! I still have scars from a 350°F system :)

Honestly, I would ditch the little piston for a bigger one (or add more pistons) and make something that can achieve that same HP with significantly less steam pressure/temperature. That kind of pressure is not something you want to play with unless you have been through a few boiler classes, have no kids living there, and have balls the size of Texas!

Edit: Not to mention, that temperature is the theoretical minimum. The piping, valve body and cylinder/piston will be cooling it and you don't want it condensing as it is doing work, so add a little more "scary" to that math... Also, good luck finding an oil that tolerates that temperature! That kind of steam is typically used for driving a turbine, not a piston.
 
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Caterpillar pistons and sleeves can be had at 6 and 8 inch diameters, but they're much more expensive. And less readily available. I started looking at the Chevy pistons simply because of their availability, familiarity, and cost.

When I was investigating Stirling engines, the smallest piston I was considering was 8 inch. Recently, the cost of stock has gone through the roof and many sizes aren't readily available. This is what turned me toward the car pistons and sleeves. (Plus, the match-fit machining is already done, and you could easily have 30 spares laying around without emptying your wallet.)

But I totally agree with you on the pressure. I'd prefer a max of 100 PSI or so. To compensate for using the higher pressure (due to the reduced piston size), I was thinking of "just in time" steam -- meaning a very small capacity boiler. The steam must be produced at the rate of the engine anyway, so why not minimize storage volume. Also, the crater in the backyard would be smaller. (I figured an excess of relief valves along with regular maintenance would help keep it safe.)

Personally, I wouldn't run it completely unattended. Also, batteries would be charging anytime the engine is running (until they go bad). 20HP is the goal largely because of my TIG welder -- but anything above 5HP would be at least enough to run my lathes, mills, perform thin-metal welding, operate various power tools, LED lights, etc. And while 5HP is acceptable, I'd prefer 10HP because of the rating of my 3-phase converter.

I have been working in semi-dangerous environments for many years and make safety a huge priority. The dangers you cite were the reasons I stayed away from steam. I spent 6 months trying to concoct a Stirling engine (using data from everywhere). But to really get the thing to work you need to have 4 pistons (if using a Beta design like Ford and Philips built), or you need a massive double-acting piston like Robert Stirling's 1847 patent describes. Further, hydrogen or helium is the prefered gas with many atmospheres of pressure, etc. etc. Nothing comes easy.

Also, I was thinking the boiler and the engine are within inches of one another. I have read a few things which talk about the loss from the boiler to the engine. Since this is a matched-set, I don't see any need for a great physical separation between the two. I'd prefer to put it all on a single frame with appropriate isolation for vibrations.

Lastly, the oiling would be injected between the back-to-back pistons such that they see oil in the same manner they see if from a gas engine. However, oil is bound to get around the piston rings and contaminate the steam. Initially, the steam will be vented and lost. Hopefully it can perform one or two final jobs before being exhausted. That said, I hope to recover and condense it as a second project.

Sorry this is so disconnected -- random thoughts. I was also planning to have the engine heated from the same rocket stove. Perhaps even route a flue around it or through it to minimize differences between the steam temp and the engine temp. This likely means an overall reduction in steam temperature.

So the design is currently at the push-pull stage where all things are being considered, with safety, maintenance, reproducibility, cost, and effectiveness -- in that order as the goals in my mind.

BTW, having said all that with the vehicle pistons -- I can certainly make these items instead. But getting a sleeve and piston from a high-production vehicle means that the materials are matched not only physically, but also thermally. And datasheets are available for them.

Finally, I did consider more pistons, but this complicates maintenance, reproducibility and cost. That's why I looked at the higher pressure. As you know, everything's a trade-off.
 
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That pressure would put the temperature in the 320°F range, which is much safer! Still makes skin peel with the briefest of contact though...

Deaeration is a common practice with boiler systems. Are you going to be removing the dissolved gasses like oxygen and CO2 from the supply water so it is not corrosive to the engine and boiler? Will there be an easy means to perform a routine blowdown? Dissolved solids like calcium bicarbonate, when heated, decompose to the carbonate (which is far less soluble in water) and scale will build up over time (releasing more CO2 in the process). Constant Steam deaeration of the supply water tank and blowdown to replace the cruddy water are things you will certainly want to incorporate to extend the system's expected lifespan.

With respect to the boiler itself, have you decided on a fire tube or water tube design (water tube being much safer and better for "on-demand" purposes)?

While you decide on a piston, here is a formula that should help. HP=PLAN/33,000 where P=psi, L=stroke length in feet (i screwed up and used inches in my first reply, so that result was wrong), A=piston surface area in square inches, and N=number of double strokes (rotations) per minute. For a double acting piston, the formula changes to HP=2*PLAN/33,000. It isn't quite 2x because of the lost surface area of the connecting rod on one side, but close enough. Solving for 5HP @100psi, keeping the stroke and piston size the same, the RPM would be 237 (if I am doing it right this time lol).
 
With respect to all of the things you mention regarding the water input, the short answer is no.

I'm figuring that the boiler must be easily disassembled (by using a plate design), and, it's only used a few hours a day.

I was planning on dealing with the issues you bring up by increasing maintenance. When I listed my design goals, I forgot to include one of the most critical requirements in my mind -- it must be sustainable under the worst of conditions. This precludes some types of water treatment and perhaps other "luxuries" well-known in the art.

Originally I wanted to use a tube system much like the power plants do, but it seems to me if I generate only the steam required to motivate the matched engine, an old-fashioned simpler design can be employed. I have a lot of steel plate at 1" thick, and by cutting the bore of the boiler into them I can stack them to create a boiler cylinder. The wall thickness would be well over 2 inches. The weakness would surely be in the axial bolting arrangement instead of the cylinder. Further, the distance between the boiler and the engine will be as short as possible and possibly only the distance that a valve between them would occupy.

I have a couple of surface grinders and can flatten these plates to within a couple of tenths with very little effort -- after the mill hogs out the bores and drills the bolt holes.

The tube design is highly attractive, of course. But it represents a significantly greater build time and effort. I also think disassembly would be severely hindered making inspections and repair much more difficult.

Another consideration for the engine is to purchase castings and machine the final unit in my shop. A few places offer some possibilities:
https://mikebrownsolutions.com/20hpse.htmhttps://www.reliablesteam.com/new/engines.php?iid=EN07http://www.greensteamengine.com/
And there are others.
 
I'm a big fan of hobbies, every man needs one, but I'll stick with solar on this one. I've run the numbers and it's amazing how little power you actually need for a comfortable modern life. 5kVA does it easily, and that includes A/C.

Good luck with the project.
 
Or have stifling humidity which lasts for months.

I have solar panels. But they don't last forever and aren't easily repaired.

Besides, where's the fun in buying when you can build it instead !?!
 
If I may, during my time in the Navy I was a Boiler Technician. We operated 600 psi and 1200psi boilers. First off I see no way how a Boiler can be dissembled easily for transportation. Every time you put it back together you have to check it for leaks in the steam drum and all its tubes before you can operate it. Second the Navy used steam turbines for the generators. More efficient and cheaper. I do understand your concept but you would be better off having a stationary power plant than a mobile one. They do require maintenance that is somewhat unique to a steam plant. PM me if you want more details.
 
There was no intention to make this portable.

I looked at turbines but they are precision builds and require precision balance. Of course they are more efficient, but in my opinion, not practical for the backyard.

Because this concept is being designed to only serve a known-size engine of a known-output, the boiler was going to be matched to it. Also, it would be a simple design much like that of the 19th century.

The current idea is simply to provide boiler volume about twice the volume of the engine, and produce steam at the same rate as the engine consumes it. If the rate of steam production is greater, excess will be exhausted via a relief valve. If it's less, the stove output will be increased.

The boiler itself must be inspectable, easily cleaned, and easily repaired. Therefore, a tube design is not practical.

There is a guy who builds Stanley Steamer boilers which are impressive, but practically impossible to service or inspect. But its concept of a low volume boiler with "just-in-time" steam inspired me.

The Stanley uses 600PSI, but I don't want to go that high. I'm trying for 100PSI, but may have to either change the piston size, or increase pressure to obtain my goal of 20HP -- as MNwr786 showed with his calculations.
 
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This is something I researched long long ago. The biggest thing I learned was to avoid traditional boilers as too dangerous and expensive. The recommendation was for a flash boiler. This is where you use tubing as your "containment vessel" and make steam only as needed.

Something to look closer at is ORC engines or "Organic Rankine Cycle". This is essentially a steam engine that uses a refrigerant as its working fluid. Said refrigerant can also be butane or propane (in a well sealed system of course!). The beauty of this is that you can use an automotive AC scroll compressor as your "engine" or "engines".

Search "organic rankine cycle" and or "scroll expander".
 
I agree. The flash boiler is what I've been refering to as "just-in-time" steam. The Stanley Steamer from 1910's is a great example of this. No reported explosions in their entire history. Bryan Boilers are also a great design. They still make them today.

I have seen the ORC engines. But since my personal primary requirement is being able to maintain and repair under the worst conditions, "exotic" engines are out for me.
 
I have seen the ORC engines. But since my personal primary requirement is being able to maintain and repair under the worst conditions, "exotic" engines are out for me.

Actually, other than the working fluid, there is nothing "exotic" about them. Go to any junk yard and you can find a scroll compressor from a car. The only real modification needed is to remove the check valve that prevents them from running as an expander. The only part that can go bad is the seal at the bottom of the scrolls. If you are a good enough machinist to build a steam engine then you should be able to eliminate these (with a loss of efficiency) by grinding the tolerances closer and possibly even running with steam. On the other hand the "refrigerant" allows it to run at MUCH lower pressures and temperatures.

The only real downside in the worst case scenario is the working fluid most likely being flammable. To me though there is no more danger than with a steam explosion. In fact even this could be eliminated with using R-134a. Get a "tap valve" and a vacuum pump though and if it is even necessary you could recover refrigerant from scrap or unused AC units, cars, or refrigerators.

Dont forget that there are other issues with steam that you wouldnt have here. There is corrosion, scale, and other contaminates that may in relatively short order plug up or otherwise cause your steam engine to be inoperative. Ask a boiler operator how much maintenance goes into a steam system because of this. Being a closed system, ORC would not have this issue.
 
Metallurgy has advanced by leaps and bounds in the last few years. Especially new powder metallurgy stainless steels incorporating high levels of nitrogen for corrosion resistance. Not too long ago if you wanted a dive knife for salt water diving, you had to compromise on the other qualities of the steel in order to get sufficient corrosion resistance. Not anymore.

I would guess that with state of the art stainless steels you could build a bulletproof boiler of conventional design.
 
Metallurgy has advanced by leaps and bounds in the last few years. Especially new powder metallurgy stainless steels incorporating high levels of nitrogen for corrosion resistance. Not too long ago if you wanted a dive knife for salt water diving, you had to compromise on the other qualities of the steel in order to get sufficient corrosion resistance. Not anymore.

I would guess that with state of the art stainless steels you could build a bulletproof boiler of conventional design.

Im sure you could, just like Lee Iacocca said years ago though, "I can build a car that will last 500,000 miles.....but would you want to pay for it?". Dont get me wrong, I have a great love and nostalgia for steam engines. They are on the other hand maintenance and operationally intensive compared to the alternatives. Diesel for instance will run on just about any oil fuel. Way back when I was all into steam. From there I moved to gasoline because I learned how to make alcohol. Then I got involved with Diesel. My 6hp "Listeroid" will turn a 5k generator head on just about any oil (straight used vegetable oil, used (heated) motor oil, anything comparable) once warmed up. Im even looking at decomposing plastics to recover oil (take a look on youtube). Im sure we'll never run out of scrap plastic or even tires. All of this is why I havnt proceeded past the experimental and test stage with ORC.

If someone wants to do steam, Im all for it and wish them the VERY best of luck. In my experience though with those same technological changes and solutions you mention there are a whole lot better options these days even under the most dire of circumstances.
 
I have 400 acres of oak trees. Even an inefficient steam engine still has negligible fuel costs with an inexhaustible fuel supply. (they grow faster than I can use them)
So yeah, I'll pay a helluva lot more up front for that car if I never have to buy fuel for it!
 

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