If there is a total economic and social collapse of society, how do we defend ourselves? Its all very well being a prepper now, but are we not going to end up with a situation where there are armed militias that will simply take over our resources? I have just purchased a small farm in Scotland. While I have resources at present, how would I stop others taking it over by force? If a gang turns up with guns, there is practically very little I can do about it. The situation is even worse here (and much of the world), as unlike the USA, we are legally prohibited from having guns. The criminals don’t care, as they have guns anyway. Even if I did have a gun, there is no way I could fight off a heavily armed militia on my own. It's a practical question and I wonder what we do about it? Do we try and form our own militias? Or do we abandon farming / land and live in the wilderness as hunter / gatherers?
How do we defend ourselves if society collapses?
- Thread starter tommydog
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Helen Back
A True Doomsday Prepper
Alot of people around the world hate on Americans who support our second amendment. They will see the value in it soon enough. Governments around the world have been infiltrated and are working to kill off their own people; people with no way to defend themselves.
Yours is a great question. I think you have to work with your neighbors on a defense plan. More importantly, being at a disadvantage, you need an alert system giving you time to prepare to initiate said defenses. I would think about things like poisoned goods in sight. Vacate, hide, while they eat them. Now you have guns. Make a new defense plan..
Yours is a great question. I think you have to work with your neighbors on a defense plan. More importantly, being at a disadvantage, you need an alert system giving you time to prepare to initiate said defenses. I would think about things like poisoned goods in sight. Vacate, hide, while they eat them. Now you have guns. Make a new defense plan..
Oddcaliber
A True Doomsday Prepper
I'm just 1 person but I'll defend my home until I'm out of target's or ammo. Which ever comes first.
We defend ourselves, one round at a time, so don't run out of ammo.
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I'd hate to live in a country that had been disarmed.
If at all possible I'd buy a black market gun consequences be damned.
The most recent case would be Venezuela. They confiscated the public's weapons and a short four years later they were shooting Venezuelan citizens in the streets.
Then you have Australia. They're being sent to covide camps and you have no recourse.
When a government wants to take away firearms from its citizens you can bet that government is planning to do something thats really going to piss off those citizens.
Which of course is why democrats want to take ours.
If at all possible I'd buy a black market gun consequences be damned.
The most recent case would be Venezuela. They confiscated the public's weapons and a short four years later they were shooting Venezuelan citizens in the streets.
Then you have Australia. They're being sent to covide camps and you have no recourse.
When a government wants to take away firearms from its citizens you can bet that government is planning to do something thats really going to piss off those citizens.
Which of course is why democrats want to take ours.
Arcticdude
Top Poster
Find yourself some weapons and ammo any way you can. If criminals have guns, then become a criminal and get some for yourself. Keep it hidden away until needed. Learn the skills to make booby traps for when the time comes.
I never could understand how a population would allow a government to disarm them, or why citizens willingly gave up their weapons. Resist and fight back anyway you can.
I never could understand how a population would allow a government to disarm them, or why citizens willingly gave up their weapons. Resist and fight back anyway you can.
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tmttactical
A True Doomsday Prepper
I do not know your situation, so I can't advise you on what you should do. I plan to do the "Alamo Defense" and will make any aggressors pay a huge price to take my place. Booby traps, hidden explosives, and any other methods needed to defend my home. Alarm systems are established, so I can prepare a warm welcoming to any aggressors. NOTE: I will not take prisoners'.
Schattentarn
A True Doomsday Prepper
I just ordered an AK 47 to go along with my AR 15.
Tommydog, it is easier than you think to legally get a shotgun in Scotland.
https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/shotgu...s-certificate/get-a-shotgun-certificate-32358
https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/shotgu...s-certificate/get-a-shotgun-certificate-32358
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The only drawback is the gov now knows you have a firearm.
Here in the states we have Armslist where you can buy a firearm and the gov will never know about your purchase as long as it's in state.
The two firearms in my avatar are both from Armslist and the gov has no record of them.
I don't think there will be large groups/militias out raiding preppers..... What does it take to have a group like that? For starters, a lack of ethics. When you group together people of questionable character, it is just a matter of time before they turn on each other.
But, lets say such groups did organize... They would have to be continuously on the move as they deplete the resources immediately available. These people are not producers, they are consumers. When there is nothing to consume, they will move on, and when they do move on and encounter ever decreasing resources, they will still turn on each other because that is their personality, that is what brought them together in the first place. I would be terrified to be a part of such a group.
It is far more likely that people will group together to produce what they need. This too has it's problems, and most of them are rooted in socialism. Your group has a doctor, a gardener, a defense contractor, a few hunter/trappers, a mechanic, and if you are lucky, a good scientist. Problem is, the doctor will not always be needed, a garden might be under snow, and there will always be people retaining the notion that their responsibility is well defined and that their presence as a part time consumer is invariably justified. I would like to believe that these uniquely skilled people will take on other tasks when their most notable skillset is not being utilized, but when you are the only one that knows how to remove a bullet - but there are presently no bullets to remove, it is easy to feel valuable enough to sit on your ###. Any group situation like this will default to some level of socialism. I would prefer to keep my location limited to the family and depend on hard work and bartering with locals doing the same. Being a witness to the shortcomings of the human psyche, I have completely abandoned the idea of active group prepping. Marauders thinking they will succeed long term will eventually grow hungry, and hungry people are physically weak, slow, and emotionally compromised.
But, lets say such groups did organize... They would have to be continuously on the move as they deplete the resources immediately available. These people are not producers, they are consumers. When there is nothing to consume, they will move on, and when they do move on and encounter ever decreasing resources, they will still turn on each other because that is their personality, that is what brought them together in the first place. I would be terrified to be a part of such a group.
It is far more likely that people will group together to produce what they need. This too has it's problems, and most of them are rooted in socialism. Your group has a doctor, a gardener, a defense contractor, a few hunter/trappers, a mechanic, and if you are lucky, a good scientist. Problem is, the doctor will not always be needed, a garden might be under snow, and there will always be people retaining the notion that their responsibility is well defined and that their presence as a part time consumer is invariably justified. I would like to believe that these uniquely skilled people will take on other tasks when their most notable skillset is not being utilized, but when you are the only one that knows how to remove a bullet - but there are presently no bullets to remove, it is easy to feel valuable enough to sit on your ###. Any group situation like this will default to some level of socialism. I would prefer to keep my location limited to the family and depend on hard work and bartering with locals doing the same. Being a witness to the shortcomings of the human psyche, I have completely abandoned the idea of active group prepping. Marauders thinking they will succeed long term will eventually grow hungry, and hungry people are physically weak, slow, and emotionally compromised.
Personally I don't think a shotgun is that great a weapon. In the UK you you are legally limited to a fixed magazine capacity of no more than three cartridges. Plus it shoots shot and not bullets. You are also limited by it's size. For self defense, I would much rather carry a handgun with a large round capacity. I hear you can get handguns that even shoot 30 rounds.
Its simply not worth it at this point in time. Getting caught with an illegal gun would probably result in 5 or 6 years in jail. There was a case of an elderly american priest who got a flight to the UK and accidentally packed his handgun. He ended up doing a few years in jail for an innocent mistake.
Its a shame that 3D metal printers are not affordable / practical for the consumer. You could have design plans ready and if things really deteriorated you could print a gun off in your own house. I know plans exist for plastic printers, but they are not very safe guns.
Shotguns and rifles are legal in the UK you just need to get a licence first. I'm not sure why this 'no guns' myth persists.
The OP could expand their group, if they have trusted neighbours who are in the same boat. I agree that booby traps and poison bait are a good idea.
If it does get to the point of militias, then a tactical retreat is likely better than a dead family.
The OP could expand their group, if they have trusted neighbours who are in the same boat. I agree that booby traps and poison bait are a good idea.
If it does get to the point of militias, then a tactical retreat is likely better than a dead family.
Arcticdude
Top Poster
Are you allowed to own black powder firearms where you are? If so you could get a couple .44 cal revolvers with extra cylinders that you can preload. I know its not the same as a 9 mm with a 17 rd magazine, but it would be better than nothing. Black powder guns worked fine in this country for a long time.
In the OP, you said you were legally prohibited from having guns. That is not true, especially if you are on a farm.
And the OP was in the context of defending a farm. I can perhaps forgive your lack of experience with firearms, so let me set you straight on some things. A shotgun is a much more effective home defense weapon than a handgun. A handgun is handy and easy to carry and conceal, but it takes a lot of training to be able to hit a person with it. And when you do hit someone, even in the chest, it is usually not a one-shot stop. There are many videos on the Internet of actual shootings with handguns, and rarely do the people that are hit even show any reaction at first. Firing more rounds with a handgun usually means hitting more things you didn't intend to hit.
That 3 round capacity in shotguns is often achieved by putting what is called a plug in the magazine of a shotgun that actually is designed for more rounds. To be "legal" the plug must be in place. But it can be quickly and easily removed in an emergency increasing your shotgun capacity.
In my community there will be no unions. I have seen workers sit idle because the fork lift drivers were on strike and the union rules said only fork lift operators can run fork lifts. Just because someone is a doctor does not mean they cant operate a hoe. Every one will need to multitask. I am reluctant to use poison and booby traps. As I have said before there are worse things than being killed. One of those is killing someone that you love. Guns have been a part of my life for as long as I have been alive. I can't imagine being disarmed or living somewhere where guns are illegal. As for ghost guns, or homemade guns The dims are trying to make an issue out of nothing. How many are actually being used to commit crimes? The media says an increase in them has been observed. That could mean if there was 1 last year and 2 this year the number had doubled. Never underestimate the power of a shot gun at close range. I have even shot a 6 inch group at 40 yards with fin stabilized discarding sabot slugs. I am sure there will be criminal gangs in cities at first, they will mostly fight among themselves, in cities. I strongly doubt they will hike up the mountains of Montana, taking constant sniper fire to steal a few ears of corn or a squash.
Oddcaliber
A True Doomsday Prepper
Agreed, gangs may be dumb but they are not totally stupid.
Perhaps the Op does not want the hassle of getting a licence - I can respect that. The lovers of red tape will have a vault of info on almost everything - including these screen shots.
May I suggest a decent bow of any type? I fully admit that this is not a great weapon against a militia armed with goodness only knows what, but a ranged weapon is better than none, right?
It takes time and space to get proficient with a bow and ALL bows have advantages and disadvantages when compared to each other. Example: a compound bow makes it easier for a newbie to hit a target and the % let down makes it easier to hold the sinew back for an extended time ... HOWEVER ... they are horrible if you get a derailment off the cams in a bug out (no bow press) type situation. A recurve bow can be put up and taken down very easily in the field with a simple lightweight tool ... HOWEVER ... they have zero let down and are seriously hard work on your shoulder joints over time AND you need instinctual shooting to be able to hit anything because of the offset on the riser. This takes a lot of practice ... shoulders ouch! Take my word for it. That said any bow with a decent draw weight can put a field tip through a target and still take plaster off the walls ... again, take my word for it please or your wife may go bats*!t lol I don't ever fire my other points and I hate to think what they can do. I never want to fire them either.
If you do not want a licence, may I humbly suggest any air rifle or air pistol? As long as the OP is over the age of 18 then they can legally purchase any air or spring pistol or rifle up to a .22 and certain poundage's in the outputs. Any good gun shop will be happy to advise you on any aspect of airgun ownership, maintenance and can point you to local ranges for tuition should this be required.
I never had any type of air weapon for many years. I knew absolutely nothing about them or their workings. There are videos on anti social media platforms that go into more detail than I can here and they may be worth a look. I now have numerous air weapons - no licence and all of them legal. Now if one type of my types of pistol can put a pellet in one side and out the other of an aluminium can, then I consider it to be a deterrent. I, personally, would not like to be hit by the pellet and this is why I do not recommend ever messing about with them in case of accident. It would blow a hole through a rat should I ever have that type of problem. My rifle on, the other hand, would manage problematic rabbits. I am being very careful here for reasons I hope are obvious.
Op you say you're up in Scotland. Do you have any decent slopes? Can you 'dam/pin/peg' up some felled tree trunks with a quick release peg? People don't fare well against tree trunks and it was an accident, right? Start thinking outside the box, friend.
May I suggest a decent bow of any type? I fully admit that this is not a great weapon against a militia armed with goodness only knows what, but a ranged weapon is better than none, right?
It takes time and space to get proficient with a bow and ALL bows have advantages and disadvantages when compared to each other. Example: a compound bow makes it easier for a newbie to hit a target and the % let down makes it easier to hold the sinew back for an extended time ... HOWEVER ... they are horrible if you get a derailment off the cams in a bug out (no bow press) type situation. A recurve bow can be put up and taken down very easily in the field with a simple lightweight tool ... HOWEVER ... they have zero let down and are seriously hard work on your shoulder joints over time AND you need instinctual shooting to be able to hit anything because of the offset on the riser. This takes a lot of practice ... shoulders ouch! Take my word for it. That said any bow with a decent draw weight can put a field tip through a target and still take plaster off the walls ... again, take my word for it please or your wife may go bats*!t lol I don't ever fire my other points and I hate to think what they can do. I never want to fire them either.
If you do not want a licence, may I humbly suggest any air rifle or air pistol? As long as the OP is over the age of 18 then they can legally purchase any air or spring pistol or rifle up to a .22 and certain poundage's in the outputs. Any good gun shop will be happy to advise you on any aspect of airgun ownership, maintenance and can point you to local ranges for tuition should this be required.
I never had any type of air weapon for many years. I knew absolutely nothing about them or their workings. There are videos on anti social media platforms that go into more detail than I can here and they may be worth a look. I now have numerous air weapons - no licence and all of them legal. Now if one type of my types of pistol can put a pellet in one side and out the other of an aluminium can, then I consider it to be a deterrent. I, personally, would not like to be hit by the pellet and this is why I do not recommend ever messing about with them in case of accident. It would blow a hole through a rat should I ever have that type of problem. My rifle on, the other hand, would manage problematic rabbits. I am being very careful here for reasons I hope are obvious.
Op you say you're up in Scotland. Do you have any decent slopes? Can you 'dam/pin/peg' up some felled tree trunks with a quick release peg? People don't fare well against tree trunks and it was an accident, right? Start thinking outside the box, friend.
an unplugged shotgun is totally legal - only illegal to a game warden and a hunting situation - one of the reasons why you want a dedicated defense shotgun vs a dedicated "real world" hunting one is the magazine tube >>> 1st thing you do prepping your arsenal for a SHTF situation is to unplugg everything that's in real world mode ....
if you research what you buy for a defense shotgun - you choose one with a factory extended magazine or available off-market - five shots from a standard unplugged shotgun is a good start - 10 is even better - 10+ is where you want to be with an autoloader ....
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