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MOS0231

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The community I live in have been doing things together for a very long time. My great grandparents lived at the farm oner ech (catty corner) from our fields, and they had a community bldg where large things were processed, or large quantities of fruit were processed and canned. Sausage made, that sort of thing. The building and old huge pots are still there, a cousin lives in it. Even now, people get together to help. Just talked to our neighbor yesterday about a painting party to paint our add on. Food is always involved.
I think there is a difference between community and working in a group.
Take my Amish neighbors for example. They do not rely on each other for everything. Each has their own plot of land or farm. Each has their own business. They may buy or trade for somethings, eggs, milk, some veggies etc.
But when it comes to a big project, like putting up a home or barn, the whole community comes together and they put the house or barn up in a day. I have seen it twice. But at the end of the day, they go home to their own places.
My one neighbor, when first starting out, did not have much and did need some help from their community. Later as he became more established, he now has a cow, a goat, and chickens.
Before he got the cow, he needed his goat serviced to keep getting milk. We made a trade: I kept his doe in with my billy to get her knocked up for a few months to include hay and watering her, he gave me lumber from his mill.
 
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bigpaul

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I think post SHTF small units will be better, I know Americans think BIG but mostly land will be classified after SHTF by how much we can control and comfortably use. the more land someone has the more labour is needed to work it, to feed the increased work force more land is needed so its almost self perpetuating.
big animals and big fields of crops will be ancient history, we need to think smaller and be different post SHTF.
 

Amish Heart

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That is how it is here, MOS0231, where I live. People often mistake Amish areas as "communes", but they are not. Each family has the responsibility of their own family. People help out because it's the Christian thing to do. People barter, or give extra all the time. I have an overabundance of fresh eggs at the moment, and I could sell them, but choose to give them away to family and neighbors that don't have chickens. I was just told in conversation, that another family decides to feed extra eggs to cows instead of giving them to people, and it was said in a way that was not good. So, we're careful not to be that person. Since I am not Amish, we also will give rides to places, or pick up an item for someone when we are in the bigger town. Ordered items needed for the Amish schoolhouse on line when that was needed. And when I need something, it usually appears in some way. But I have to be careful what I say. Last week at Sunday supper I mentioned to my favorite cousin that we needed to call out the electrician again that did our add on because the light switch for the room also turned on the porch lights. The electrician came by early the next morning without us calling. My cousin, who is an old 70's ish amish woman, mention it to her son who is a contractor, who mentioned it to the electrician. We keep two freezers plugged in in one of our outbuildings that has electricity and they belong to our amish neighbors. In exchange we've gotten free help with projects, fresh ground beef and pork.
 

MOS0231

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I think post SHTF small units will be better, I know Americans think BIG but mostly land will be classified after SHTF by how much we can control and comfortably use. the more land someone has the more labour is needed to work it, to feed the increased work force more land is needed so its almost self perpetuating.
big animals and big fields of crops will be ancient history, we need to think smaller and be different post SHTF.
Americans may think big.
Preppers think practically.
They also put into practice practical application skills here and now, vs post-SHTF. Post-SHTF OJT may be a exercise in not only futility but fatality.
For example, I have the book Small Scale Grain Raising, by Gene Logsdon (RIP). Using that book, I have grown wheat, buck-wheat, and barley. Enough to feed my family for a year, perhaps some surplus. Like gardening, it requires some labor up front, then some maintenance, and then harvesting and processing. It is not that hard. And using a scythe is actually kinda fun.

Preppers all know in a EMP event the petro-chemical infrastructure and support may be a thing of the past. That new John Deere might become a big paper weight, or scrap. That 1950s single piston roto-tiller might still work, till the gas runs out.

I cannot eat grass (granted some North Koreans may beg to differ), so I use small, medium and large livestock to convert grass, tree leaves, weeds and even bark into protein. That requires land. Depending on the livestock, stocking rate of a paddock, the weather, dictates how much land I need. With proper fencing, livestock on pasture is actually fairly easy, low maintenance work. The goats are train to follow me around outside of their paddock. The cows, to a degree. Hogs, not so much. Hence heavy fencing. I have made rabbit tractors in the past. The make great lawn mowers, and I get meat at the end.

Does it take work, of course. Sometimes it is hot and intense labor. Then, many hands make light a fast work. That is where community comes in.
 

MOS0231

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That is how it is here, MOS0231, where I live. People often mistake Amish areas as "communes", but they are not. Each family has the responsibility of their own family. People help out because it's the Christian thing to do. People barter, or give extra all the time. I have an overabundance of fresh eggs at the moment, and I could sell them, but choose to give them away to family and neighbors that don't have chickens. I was just told in conversation, that another family decides to feed extra eggs to cows instead of giving them to people, and it was said in a way that was not good. So, we're careful not to be that person. Since I am not Amish, we also will give rides to places, or pick up an item for someone when we are in the bigger town. Ordered items needed for the Amish schoolhouse on line when that was needed. And when I need something, it usually appears in some way. But I have to be careful what I say. Last week at Sunday supper I mentioned to my favorite cousin that we needed to call out the electrician again that did our add on because the light switch for the room also turned on the porch lights. The electrician came by early the next morning without us calling. My cousin, who is an old 70's ish amish woman, mention it to her son who is a contractor, who mentioned it to the electrician. We keep two freezers plugged in in one of our outbuildings that has electricity and they belong to our amish neighbors. In exchange we've gotten free help with projects, fresh ground beef and pork.
What a great example.
Thank you for posting that.
 

bigpaul

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Americans may think big.
Preppers think practically.
They also put into practice practical application skills here and now, vs post-SHTF. Post-SHTF OJT may be a exercise in not only futility but fatality.
For example, I have the book Small Scale Grain Raising, by Gene Logsdon (RIP). Using that book, I have grown wheat, buck-wheat, and barley. Enough to feed my family for a year, perhaps some surplus. Like gardening, it requires some labor up front, then some maintenance, and then harvesting and processing. It is not that hard. And using a scythe is actually kinda fun.

Preppers all know in a EMP event the petro-chemical infrastructure and support may be a thing of the past. That new John Deere might become a big paper weight, or scrap. That 1950s single piston roto-tiller might still work, till the gas runs out.

I cannot eat grass (granted some North Koreans may beg to differ), so I use small, medium and large livestock to convert grass, tree leaves, weeds and even bark into protein. That requires land. Depending on the livestock, stocking rate of a paddock, the weather, dictates how much land I need. With proper fencing, livestock on pasture is actually fairly easy, low maintenance work. The goats are train to follow me around outside of their paddock. The cows, to a degree. Hogs, not so much. Hence heavy fencing. I have made rabbit tractors in the past. The make great lawn mowers, and I get meat at the end.

Does it take work, of course. Sometimes it is hot and intense labor. Then, many hands make light a fast work. That is where community comes in.
I agree with most of the above, however over here I cant see many preppers having cows, goats will give milk and will eat a lot of stuff a cow wont. most preppers here agree smaller animals are the way to go post SHTF. we dont have the wild predators you have in the US, the largest wild animal we have is a Red Deer and they are fairly shy.
most of this can be done on a small scale, family will supply the labour, no need for others. most communities will be decimated anyway WTSHTF .
 

Mountain Dragon

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@MOS0231
I agree with you about the practical thinking and i'm happy for you to having enough land and space.
Sometimes we europeans just don't have the space for it, myself by example. If you're living in an appartment you may got an balcony where you can plant some herbes for cooking. So we need to plan a bit different, store more conserved or dry food.
Myself, i always planned for an worst case scenario without electricity and internet. If there's any electric power around - LUXURY YEAH! If not - all fine.
OK, i'm living for rent in an old house without an stable electric system in the past (Partly renewed last year and now more stable...) I already was used to be between a few hours or an whole weekend without electric power. Was hard the first 2 times, after not anymore. Watching TV is nice by candlelight too... lmao.
 

Amish Heart

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Nothing wrong with thinking big in your community with animals, but it's important to grow your feed or have a feed grower you're trading with. I stick with lots of fowl...eggs and meat. My cousin does cows...milk and meat. We trade. He also grows certified organic grains..wheat, soy, oats. Not interested in the soy, but he gives me wheat and oats. The oats are unhulled, and I have no way to process them, but I do soak them for chicken feed. My grandpa's farm was right down the road. Born in 1900, and he raised all his grain and processed it for all his animals. Cows and sheep. Two of our neighbors raise sheep, and they are grass fed, not grain fed, so a good supply of stored, baled alfalfa is necessary when fresh grass is gone. That's what our large roundtop building is used for, alfalfa storage. And our back 15 acres is where alot is grown. We are thinking about getting a few goats, but mostly because our granddaughters want them, and I think it'd be a good animal for them to learn. They have the chicken, turkey, duck, guinea down. All the care of them, and even the butchering.
 

Dave2001

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While working as a travel nurse in the breadbasket, a man came in with his son who had gotten his arm caught in an auger. I had a new RN training with me. As soon as she saw the carnage, she blew chunks- couldn't even make it to the trash can. That was ok. It was the patient across the hall who saw this kid brought in screaming, losing blood at a ridiculous rate. He was screaming WHY?!? Why was he still laying there? After all, all he needed was a refill on a prescription.
ME, ME, ME, is only getting WORSE, WORSE, WORSE. And this time it was only over toilet paper.
I know your feeling, I have been involved with emergency services and first response for 43 years, it gets to you sometime!!!
 

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