crushed by elephant

[toexist]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...-elephant-felled-by-gunfire-collapses-on-him/

Now I don't see anything wrong with hunting for food obviously...as we all have to eat. However I don't see why anyone would need to hunt an elephant for sport. Elephants are far more intelligent and self aware than your average game. With that being said...it's unfortunate he lost his life.

 

[Mountain trapper]

View attachment 6995

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...-elephant-felled-by-gunfire-collapses-on-him/

Now I don't see anything wrong with hunting for food obviously...as we all have to eat. However I don't see why anyone would need to hunt an elephant for sport. Elephants are far more intelligent and self aware than your average game. With that being said...it's unfortunate he lost his life.

Poetic Justice I suppose. That elephant will provide a lot of meat to the villagers and needed cash. I personally have no desire to "hunt" an elephant, but it's up to each country to set their own game laws.
I agree with you that elephants are intelligent critters. About 10 years ago I was drinking beer in a bar in Thailand when a kid came in to the bar riding an elephant. That elephant could really put the beer away.....

 

[toexist]

Poetic Justice I suppose. That elephant will provide a lot of meat to the villagers and needed cash. I personally have no desire to "hunt" an elephant, but it's up to each country to set their own game laws.
I agree with you that elephants are intelligent critters. About 10 years ago I was drinking beer in a bar in Thailand when a kid came in to the bar riding an elephant. That elephant could really put the beer away.....

Yeah I agree that each country should have its own laws concerning wildlife. Hunting to feed is one thing. Hunting such a highly intelligent creature for sport as an Elephant should be illegal in my opinion.

 

[Dani]

Isn't it the same as for the countries who eat what we call pets. . . dogs, cats, horses,etc? Just because it would be cruel in our country doesn't mean that it hasn't been done in others for centuries. Would I? Not at this time, but never say never. Near where mom lived there was an oriental resteraunt that sold dog meat without the publics knowledge. Wasn't found out till health department did a surprise visit. But I agree with Article. . . poetic justice can be a beautiful thing.

 

[toexist]

Isn't it the same as for the countries who eat what we call pets. . . dogs, cats, horses,etc? Just because it would be cruel in our country doesn't mean that it hasn't been done in others for centuries. Would I? Not at this time, but never say never. Near where mom lived there was an oriental resteraunt that sold dog meat without the publics knowledge. Wasn't found out till health department did a surprise visit. But I agree with Article. . . poetic justice can be a beautiful thing.

It's like bullfighting in Spain. It's been going on LONG before the United States even existed. It's essentially part of their culture. That doesn't change the fact that it's cruel and unnecessary.

The Bulls are starved, partially blinded, placed in dark confined boxes just before being released to chaos only to be tortured and butchered for entertainments sake.

Now I don't proclaim to be emperor of the universe but that doesn't make it right. Causing unnecessary pain and suffering for sport or entertainment...especially to an advanced creature like an elephant is ridiculous in my opinion.

The only reason why it's permitted is because there is a lot of money involved.

 

[Dani]

There you are talking about cruelty to animals which I am totally against. I an talking about if an animal is killed for food purposes and not for the fun of it. There is a big difference. I don't agree with "sport" hunting although I know it is popular, my hunnys boss goes over to Africa to kill the exotic game there to bring home and keep as trophy mounts. The only reason I ever agree that an animal be killed is for food and when that is done, use every part of that animal as you can. All of ours have been brought up with love and care. . . I'm sure the heck not going to let any of their parts go to waste when they are processed. So if certain countries rely on a certain animal as a food source than so be it. If the elephant was killed to provide meat to a village than so be it, but if for the sport of hunting to just kill to be killed, shame on them, but they are not tortured.

 

[toexist]

There you are talking about cruelty to animals which I am totally against. I an talking about if an animal is killed for food purposes and not for the fun of it. There is a big difference. I don't agree with "sport" hunting although I know it is popular, my hunnys boss goes over to Africa to kill the exotic game there to bring home and keep as trophy mounts. The only reason I ever agree that an animal be killed is for food and when that is done, use every part of that animal as you can. All of ours have been brought up with love and care. . . I'm sure the heck not going to let any of their parts go to waste when they are processed. So if certain countries rely on a certain animal as a food source than so be it. If the elephant was killed to provide meat to a village than so be it, but if for the sport of hunting to just kill to be killed, shame on them, but they are not tortured.

I made it crystal clear that I don't have a problem with killing for food. Clearly we all need to eat. Trophy hunting elephants or bullfighting are hardly examples of fulfilling the need for food.

The only reason why I brought up bullfighting is because you brought up the cultural component. People eat dogs in China because it's another way to make a buck. In China they kill anything as long as it can be sold. The dollar comes first. That doesn't make it right is all I'm saying.

 

[jontte]

I call it poetic justice...or karma..

 

[Maverick]

A clean kill is not the same as torture as in bull fighting IMHO, I'm not a trophy hunter nor do I really approve of trophy hunting though as long as it's a clean kill and no waste of the meat than not much of a problem with me. Most legitimate guides in Africa are humane in the taking of game as in this Country. I for one won't hunt elephants nor game animals that is significantly depleted such as the elephants with that said, it's up to the Country to decide and hopefully they take conservation into account when issuing permits as many already do in Africa.

 

[Brent S]

I saw this article early this morning. After reading it I had the same emotions as most expresses here. I can't actually say I'm disturbed by his death as I think trophy hunting is wrong, espechially with intelligent animals. I'm sure those elephants left in the herd will mourn their lost members. I do hope the guides give the meat from these hunts to people and it dosent just go to waste.

 

[user 6493]

I do hunt but we were taught from a early age ,,,if you are not going to eat it don't kill it,,,,so most animals are safe with me my hunting is mainly deer and rabbit and to be honest I don't much care if I shoot anything ,I have got to the point I just like to see them

 

[Joe SA]

View attachment 6995

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...-elephant-felled-by-gunfire-collapses-on-him/

Now I don't see anything wrong with hunting for food obviously...as we all have to eat. However I don't see why anyone would need to hunt an elephant for sport. Elephants are far more intelligent and self aware than your average game. With that being said...it's unfortunate he lost his life.

The real sad truth is that if elephant population is not controlled they devastate the areas they are in, their old migration routes have been cut off by human development, a few years after 94 they stopped culling elephants in the Kruger it nearly wrecked the whole eco system, so if was not for our progress there would have been no need to hunt them for sport, till someone comes up with a better solution, this will remain a sad reality.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[Brent S]

The real sad truth is that if elephant population is not controlled they devastate the areas they are in, their old migration routes have been cut off by human development, a few years after 94 they stopped culling elephants in the Kruger it nearly wrecked the whole eco system, so if was not for our progress there would have been no need to hunt them for sport, till someone comes up with a better solution, this will remain a sad reality.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Just like the deer here, if not culled out by hunting and with no natural predators here anymore, they would starve to death if the population was left unchecked. Do you know if anyone eats the elephants meat?

 

[DrHenley]

Do you know if anyone eats the elephants meat?

Absolutely. Any time an elephant is killed legally, the meat goes to local villages.

Moral posturing aside...

Let's put this as succinctly as possible:

Allow sport hunting for elephants: deprive the poachers, feed villages and save the elephants.
Ban sport hunting for elephants: enable the poachers, starve villages, and doom the elephants to extinction.

Ivory bans have not stopped poachers or the black market ivory trade. All they accomplished was to drive up the price of ivory to the point where many government officials started taking bribes to help the poachers. When Kenya banned sport hunting, President Kenyatta's family was openly involved in the illegal ivory trade. Within 5 years of the ban, Kenya lost half it's elephant population, and they have been in decline ever since. The Northern White Rhino is now EXTINCT in the wild. The last small herd in Kenya had armed guards following it around 24 hours a day, and it still got wiped out. The Southern White Rhino, which can still be legally hunted, has had an INCREASE in population in the last ten years.

East Africa used to be a wildlife paradise. Now, thanks to the ban on sport hunting, if you want to see herds of elephants and rhinos, you have to go south.

 

[toexist]

I love the psychology behind the justification for trophy hunting. These are the same people whom claim to believe in Jesus and the afterlife.

"Yeah see by allowing me to down this here creature you are allowing me to save the universe."

Moral posturing huh. Who is weak here?

Some rich guy (more than likely with no combat experience) flys across the world with a $5,000 rifle to trophy a display of his manliness.

Your target: An almost extinct highly sophisticated creature whom has existed long before man. One whom exhibits the ability of forming strong social bonds and arguably indicators of mourning their dead.

You enter this animals domain and a murder it from afar as if this is some how an accomplishment. Then in order to justify this you claim that you're helping the order of things. As if you care. Moral posturing huh?

I don't need to fly across the world to kill an elephant to feel more capable or accomplished as a man.

 

[DrHenley]

Just the facts, ma'am...

 

[Maverick]

Modern Poachers caused more deaths and wasted meat than big game hunters in the last 60 or so years, two primary losses were/are the ivory trade (poaching) and habitat loss not big game hunting.

 

[toexist]

Just the facts, ma'am...

Those are your facts ma'am. If you trophy hunt, that's your right. Just be real about it. Don't try to sugar coat it for what it is.

Hunting deer for food and trophy hunting an elephant are two completely different things.

 

[toexist]

Modern Poachers caused more deaths and wasted meat than big game hunters in the last 60 or so years, two primary losses were/are the ivory trade (poaching) and habitat loss not big game hunting.

This is probably true and I'm not disputing this. However, two wrongs don't make a right.

In my eyes trophy hunting exotic endangered animals...particularly ones as advanced as an Elephant is WEAK. That is my opinion in the matter. Not that it makes any difference to trophy hunters.

 

[Maverick]

Do we start killing the humans to extend the current level of the elephants habitat? Once the animal begins to expand so does its habitat that will extend far into populated areas! Right now not much we can do except maintain what habitat is left and the only way is through conservation, we have to maintain a balance between animal and humans, I prefer we maintain through conservation and one way is using hunting permits as we do in this country for various games. I would prefer conservation over frenzy killing and that would be the case if the habitat were allowed to expand into local villages.

 

[toexist]

Do we start killing the humans to extend the current level of the elephants habitat? Once the animal begins to expand so does its habitat that will extend far into populated areas! Right now not much we can do except maintain what habitat is left and the only way is through conservation, we have to maintain a balance between animal and humans, I prefer we maintain through conservation and one way is using hunting permits as we do in this country for various games. I would prefer conservation over frenzy killing and that would be the case if the habitat were allowed to expand into local villages.

I respect you Maverick as well as your opinion however I don't agree with ur argument here. I don't for a moment buy into the argument that we need to kill elephants. Africa is a gigantic country and elephants were around long before we were.

Certainly I don't buy into the argument that people trophy hunt because they care about the habitat. The people I've met whom trophy hunt couldn't possibly give a flying rats tail about the animals nor the people of Africa.

These are people with big money whom are attempting to express their masculinity...most of which whom have never been in a fight in their entire life.

 

[Maverick]

I respect you Maverick as well as your opinion however I don't agree with ur argument here. I don't for a moment buy into the argument that we need to kill elephants. Africa is a gigantic country and elephants were around long before we were.

Certainly I don't buy into the argument that people trophy hunt because they care about the habitat. The people I've met whom trophy hunt couldn't possibly give a flying rats tail about the animals nor the people of Africa.

These are people with big money whom are attempting to express their masculinity...most of which whom have never been in a fight in their entire life.

Africa is big no doubt but not all of Africa would be eco friendly, though Africa has many many countries within the African continent that don't give a rats about the ban on ivory much less the elephant itself.

Out of 54 countries there are 36 or 37 countries that have small and large population of elephants, some countries treasure the animal while others only want the money from the tusk.

Their are many very large areas in Africa that's not suitable for elephants thus they follow the water and food and that's generally in the area they currently are populating, if they are allowed to multiply in these areas the food would be depleted forcing them to migrate out of the conservation zone right into the hands of poachers, if the food is gone it's not just the elephant that suffers but other animals that rely on the same food source. Over population is very destructive to all animal that populate the area (ecological imbalance)

If my post appears all over the board it probably is, I'm using my phone to type this on an app... it sucks *sigh

 

[toexist]

Africa is big no doubt but not all of Africa would be eco friendly, though Africa has many many countries within the African continent that don't give a rats about the ban on ivory much less the elephant itself.

Out of 54 countries there are 36 or 37 countries that have small and large population of elephants, some countries treasure the animal while others only want the money from the tusk.

Their are many very large areas in Africa that's not suitable for elephants thus they follow the water and food and that's generally in the area they currently are populating, if they are allowed to multiply in these areas the food would be depleted forcing them to migrate out of the conservation zone right into the hands of poachers, if the food is gone it's not just the elephant that suffers but other animals that rely on the same food source. Over population is very destructive to all animal that populate the area (ecological imbalance)

If my post appears all over the board it probably is, I'm using my phone to type this on an app... it sucks *sigh

I just don't agree that trophy hunting elephants is the answer.

 

[DrHenley]

Look at the dates on that chart....

Kenya, where the greatest herds of elephants were at one time, banned elephant hunting in 1973. That is when that precipitous decline in the elephant population began - after the ban.

 

[toexist]

 

[Brent S]

I could never kill an animal that's as intelligent as an elephant, period. With that being said, I am in favor of population control. If they over populate their habitat and run out of food to eat, dying of starvation is way worse than being killed quickly by a hunters shot. They are smart enough to go further distances for food as well, which puts them in conflict with people. That never ends well for the animal either. It is a crappy situation for the animals, but is the best thing going in the world we are in.

 

[Maverick]

@toexit
We must distinguish the deference between trophy hunting and conservation, I think the two are being treated as one in this conversation. As I said early in this thread, I'm not a fan of trophy hunting but I do support conservation. I've seen trophy hunters waste meat (not all) and only taking the head quite similar to poachers but both are legally treated differently, conservation is maintaining and controlling the habitat through legally controlled hunting in this case.

 

[DrHenley]

Some people just can't handle reality...

Is that your version of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "LA LA LA LA LA" when you can't handle the truth???

 

[toexist]

Okay so we have established that pretty much all of you are in agreement with my way thinking as it relates to "trophy hunting".

In law schools across America they teach that one can always argue both sides of an argument regardless of how ridiculous...in order to justify action. Even murderers try to justify their actions by claiming self defense or claiming victims of abuse.

I in no way agree with or support trophy hunting of endangered species...particularly those as advanced as an elephant.

I also believe that killing elephants as an answer to conservation (an already substantially diminished population) is ridiculous.

This thread is about a trophy hunter not a conservationist. To argue that most people whom trophy hunt are conservationists...is even more ridiculous than trophy hunting itself.

This is my philosophy on that matter. Some can and will feel differently...that is perfectly alright.

 

[Maverick]

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Okay so we have established that pretty much all of you are in agreement with my way thinking as it relates to "trophy hunting".

In law schools across America they teach that one can always argue both sides of an argument regardless of how ridiculous...in order to justify action. Even murderers try to justify their actions by claiming self defense or claiming victims of abuse.

I in no way agree with or support trophy hunting of endangered species...particularly those as advanced as an elephant.

I also believe that killing elephants as an answer to conservation (an already substantially diminished population) is ridiculous.

This thread is about a trophy hunter not a conservationist. To argue that most people whom trophy hunt are conservationists...is even more ridiculous than trophy hunting itself.

This is my philosophy on that matter. Some can and will feel differently...that is perfectly alright.

Having pictures taken with ones kill doesn't really say much other than success, I have many pictures taken with my kills and even posted some on here, I have 11 mounted heads through the house and office with many mounted antlers and several salmon, it doesn't constitute anything other than successful kills. For a while here I had for my avy of a picture of me skinning a nice buck that was just shy of a Boone and Crockett record.