CPL. / CCW Class

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getnready

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Not sure where to post this but here goes.

Yesterday I took the concealed carry certification class here in Michigan and was shocked at the lack of discipline on the range! I thought I would cover all my bases and get my conceal carry permit although I my retired LEO statis supersedes it.
Ok I was in the military, a range master- for 17 years and I was shocked at how the range time was run for this class! The instructor whom I never met before asked me to help as range safety just on my word I was a state certified instructor for my department.
Some of these people had never shot a weapon before and they were taking this class just made me cringe. I heard they are not really regulated but really! The instructor was an NRA certified instructor that works in our local gun and archery store.

Is this the norm?
 

getnready

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Oh by the way we shot at a regular size sheet of paper stapled to those big 50 gallon plastic barrels outside in 30 degree weather!
 

Brent S

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I'm sure each class and instructor is different. Ive seen some really good teachers over the years, but there few and far in between. I got scuba certified by an ex seal. I though he was the biggest ### hole I ever met, as he was a tough SOB. Luckliy he was really thourough, and years later I had a problem in a cave dive, where his training kept me alive. Later on I took my wife to a local dive shop to get certified. The class was a complete joke. Basically they signed her off and tried to sell us some gear. The best advice I can give is talk to others that went thru the class/instruction before commiting to it.
 

Silent Earth

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One thing that did shock me when I lived briefly in the US ( remember I am pro gun ownership) was the apparent and appalling lack of training available AND taken up by many people. Indeed many people were taught how to load, unload and fire the weapon in the gun shop then simply let lose on society??? I quite simply did not get it. Surely even the most ardent PRO gun ownership supporter sees the need for skill at arms training for gun owners, it was amazing to see people with ZERO levels of safe gun handling skills at shows and on ranges. Pointing loaded guns at each other, keeping the finger on the trigger, not knowing safe stoppage drills, some folks proudly saying they NEVER cleaned their guns !!!!, walking down the range to check a target whilst others are still shooting, holding rifles by the magazines, putting the muzzle down into the dirt, people leaving loaded fire arms where infants can easily access them etc etc.

I absolutely 100% support the American right to own and bear arms and wish we had the same in the UK, but for HUGE numbers of Americans gun control and gun safety appear at best to be simple afterthoughts.
 

Gazrok

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Is this the norm?
Sadly, yep.

Many places though, are run by responsible gun owners/enthusiasts who take it seriously, but there are plenty of others who do not.
 

alabaster

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No, I beg to differ. It may be the norm to a slack-### joke of an instructor, but the bulk of us are absolutely not that way. First off, if he was overloaded with students, then he should have had an adjunct instructor step in to help him handle his students. I will sometimes bring in a female just to handle other female students who may be uncomfortable with having a stranger(Who happens to be a male) that close to them. I've also brought in another instructor for small classes when 2 or 3 are really in need of help and a couple are on point but mostly need the paper certification.

No matter what though, I absolutely do not, ever allow people to falter on basic safety rules. Not in the classroom where guns are always unloaded- Or on the range where they are often in an "Unknown" condition. Muzzle awareness, trigger finger discipline, and other safety rules are not at all up for negotiation. I'll quickly fail a student for lack of safety, but not usually for poor accuracy. That can usually be attained through dry fire and basic fundamentals, but lack of safety shows a disregard for the seriousness of the subject at hand. There's only 2 reasons to have a firearm mishap- You either don't know how to safely handle a firearm, or you don't care about safely handling a firearm. It really is that simple.

If you know of an instructor(Especially an NRA Instructor) that is not handling their duties safely and professionally, then report them. At least report the to the NRA, and consider reporting them to the range where they're teaching. The ranges usually assume that certified instructors INCREASE the safety of their ranges because they essentially have an extra Range Master on duty when they're there teaching. They will appreciate knowing that there is a supposedly "Knowledgable" person there that is leading others down a path of destruction in there facilities.

Firearms safety is not a joke, and anyone who is acting that way needs to get a reality check. You'll be doing everyone a favor, from their students to other gun enthusiasts, and last but certainly not least, for them.
 

WILD MAN

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The whole CCL thing is a scam, all it does is put your name on a list to make it easy for the gun grabbers when the time comes. I've said it before and I'll say it again " THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS YOUR CCL"
 

Gazrok

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I did add the caveat....

However, there are lots of little fly by night places that do these classes that are barely qualified to do so, or do so during gun shows, etc. that are more interested in how many they get money from, vs. quality training. They aren't the norm. But they are numerous.

The vast majority though, are taking it seriously, and have a lot at stake if they don't.
 

Clyde

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Not sure where to post this but here goes.

Yesterday I took the concealed carry certification class here in Michigan and was shocked at the lack of discipline on the range! I thought I would cover all my bases and get my conceal carry permit although I my retired LEO statis supersedes it.
Ok I was in the military, a range master- for 17 years and I was shocked at how the range time was run for this class! The instructor whom I never met before asked me to help as range safety just on my word I was a state certified instructor for my department.
Some of these people had never shot a weapon before and they were taking this class just made me cringe. I heard they are not really regulated but really! The instructor was an NRA certified instructor that works in our local gun and archery store.

Is this the norm?
That is disturbing on so many levels!
I know its not the norm here in california, because you damn near have to sleeping with the sheriff to get a ccw.
But for the brief time they were issuing them you had to have a class, and prove competence with a handgun.
 

Arcticdude

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Fortunately in my State a CCL isn't required to carry, concelled or open. I can't imagine asking permission from the government to carry the proper tools for protecting myself and my family.
 

Brent S

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Fortunately in my State a CCL isn't required to carry, concelled or open. I can't imagine asking permission from the government to carry the proper tools for protecting myself and my family.
I think you could carry in most states legally. The only problem is without the permit you're looking at a potential hassle if questioned by law enforcement. Even if arrested for it, a good lawyer could probably get the charges dropped, if you can afford one.
 

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