Close Combat

[PhoenixPrepping]

IMHO I would make this suggestion about hand to hand combat...DON'T. I've taken several different types of karate, Tang soo do, and Muay Thai and when I was ina life or death situation in the Army do you know how much of it I used? Not a dam* bit of it. This isn't the movies or hollywood, it's real life. And in real life, the fastest, most brutal, most vicious SOB wins. Does it matter if you stab someone in the back when they aren't looking? Nope. Will having an honorable fight keep your family safe? Nope. One of my favorite quotes says, "If you find yourself in a fair fight, somebody screwed up."

Keep in mind, that you are going to be carrying gear and you will probally have your family with you. My suggestion would be to carry a crowbar with you for times when you ABSOLUTELY have no other choice than to get in close. There are titanium ones out there that will last longer than any of us and are reasonably priced. You can use it to beat someone to death, pry boards off, break chains, and even move heavy things that may be in your way.

Gah, I wish I could hold a seminar about this cause it would be so great and educational. Oh, fyi, don't swing for the head. It's a small target, and most people are kind of protective about it, even those who don't have much inside of it. Your better bet is to go for the joints. Kneecap someone and they aren't going to mess with you. Be fast, be dirty, be brutal, and MOST IMPORTANTLY DON'T STOP!!!!!! If you get them on the ground keep beating them until your sure they are dead or at least very incapacitated.

Sorry for so long a post, and for beating the dead horse, but I saw too many 'martial artist' get shot in the face or get stabbed to death to even think of people trying something like that. God it makes me shudder...

 

[Onisei]

I disagree, some degree of training is preferable to none. in order for hth training to be effective you have to have it ingrained into your muscle memory. however even a small amount of training can teach someone how to watch distance, read body language, how to keep up an active guard, etc. A crowbar is about my least favorite weapon due to the weight. it can take an incredibly long time to recover from a missed strike. a great tool but if it's for a weapon I'd rather have a walking cane than a crowbar. ymmv

 

[Kevin]

Multiple attackers I agree. As far as knowing the basics I love it. I think it's important to incorporate multiple things as well.

 

[old_anorak]

I worked at a forensic high security mental hospital for the criminally insane. That's where I learned a few tricks. Told a friend of mine about it and he, of course told me that he could whip me in no time flat because he's a cop and martial arts and blah, blah, blah. Things did not end well. He didn't whip me and I didn't whip him, but he did have new respect for my Bugsh*t Crazy B*tch approach. I've had to use it since then and ended up nearly charged with assault because of torsion and rupture of the testicles of the guy who grabbed me in the Wally World parking lot. I've told both of my girls, do anything you have to if someone puts their hands on you, if you're hurting, suck it up and go right back at them, fight as dirty as you can because your life may well depend on it. Don't ever pull the girl card and start bawling, get pissed, get crazy, and take some blood.

 

[PhoenixPrepping]

I disagree, some degree of training is preferable to none. in order for hth training to be effective you have to have it ingrained into your muscle memory. however even a small amount of training can teach someone how to watch distance, read body language, how to keep up an active guard, etc. A crowbar is about my least favorite weapon due to the weight. it can take an incredibly long time to recover from a missed strike. a great tool but if it's for a weapon I'd rather have a walking cane than a crowbar. ymmv

I understand what your saying, and I do agree with you. But here is why I have an issue with most H2H. Most places you go to are NOT what you need, even for a general idea. While training, you have to pull your punches and kicks and if you don't you can (and probally will be) told not to come back. Ever hear the saying of train how you fight? By going to these places you are training your muscles to pull your blows. And most of the techniques that are going to be useful (ie: throat punch, nut kick, knee strikes eye gouging etc etc) are not going to be ingrained in you AT ALL. So in actuality the training you get is going to train you just enough to think you know something and then get you seriously hurt or killed. Or worse, your wife and children killed or hurt. And from what I have seen most people are going to be loaded down with their gear, which will weigh anywhere from 40 pds on up, and that WILL hamper your ability to perform most of what you know, either by slowing you down, throwing you off balance, or just because the gear itself hampers you.

If you do decide to do H2H training then my suggestion is find a place that trains realistically. And by that I mean if you don't leave with a large amount of bruises, and feeling like you just got the sh*t kicked out of you then your in the wrong place. For H2H you HAVE to be able to take a hit. No if, ands or buts. You simulate a punch to the face, you have to experience it. So to train for a hit, you have to be hit. Find someplace that teaches boxing and go train there. Get in the ring and go three rounds getting the crap knocked out of you. That is realistic and is as good a H2H training as you could expect. And it teaches you all the things you listed Onisei.

As for the crowbar, mine isn't the traditional one I think your thinking of. Mine is more of a utility bar. Actually here is a pic of the one I bought.

It's 16 in long and I wrapped 550 cord around the bottom for a firm grip and left a loop so that I can wrap it around my wrist so I don't drop it or get it knocked away from me. And since it's titanium it's really light, about as much as a sword maybe a tad more.

Oh, and one last thing for H2H to always remember and hold near and dear to your heart... There is NO way to train for a kick to the crotch! (And yes, ladies are alomst as sensitive in that area as we are guys. Am I right ladies?)

 

[old_anorak]

We can be, but it just generally pisses me off worse and I'll shake it off and deal with what's at hand. That's just me and I'm not exactly a girlie girl. Oh the skinnier the woman, the worse it seems to hurt.

 

[Colt 1911]

I disagree, some degree of training is preferable to none. in order for hth training to be effective you have to have it ingrained into your muscle memory. however even a small amount of training can teach someone how to watch distance, read body language, how to keep up an active guard, etc. A crowbar is about my least favorite weapon due to the weight. it can take an incredibly long time to recover from a missed strike. a great tool but if it's for a weapon I'd rather have a walking cane than a crowbar. ymmv

I have to agree, I will take a broom stick cut to 3 ft over a crowbar, as for training any is better than none, Simple stuff like a eye poke can buy you time to get out. I not going to set there and exchange blows thats not my style. I have said it before, can't see, can't breath, can't stand = CAN'T FIGHT

 

[Onisei]

@phoenixprepping- we'll have to agree to disagree, perhaps my experiences are just different than yours. I don't think you have to hit someone hard enough to break a jaw in order to work on striking although you do need to train sincerely. For example when punching at a persons face you should punch through your target and not off to the side. There is a time for hard and soft training and any decent instructor knows the difference. I would however advise people to stay away from strip mall mcdojo belt factories. Striking to the eyes is a perfectly valid technique and my students train eye strikes using racquetball glasses so its not that those types of attacks aren't taught although caution should be taken.

 

[PhoenixPrepping]

Hehehe I think you just said what I was trying to say using a lot less words. Mcdojo LMFAOWROTFASTSOOTC!!!!!!! THOSE are exactly what I meant in my post. Not realistic AT ALL!

And our experiences might be different. My time in the Army was rather....violent....and it left it's mark. Most of the things I refer to are from what I've seen during that time. I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of an all out blitz of violence and mayhem for when SHTF. I tend to forget that the way I got wired isn't necessarily how others are wired.

Btw, what do you teach? I think I saw somewhere that you are a Sensei? My last Sensei was the one who asked me not to come back, but we were doing the hard training, just punches and kicks, no scoring, just going two minutes then breaking for a minute then going again. He said I was too aggressive and didn't want to train me anymore. ~shrug~

 

[Onisei]

I'm only a 4th Dan and I don't like the title Sensei lol my goal is to learn and teaching is only a part of my training. I train in Bujinkan budo taijutsu. We actually have a lot of soldiers who are instructors in my art. I also believe that it is crucial to train with modern weapons so I don't get hung up on the whole classical weapons thing. For example I like to apply sword principles to machete and stick fighting translates well to asp. And marksmanship in place of archery etc.

 

[PhoenixPrepping]

Well you know what they say, Stop learning start dying...

 

[Onisei]

Agreed

 

[PhoenixPrepping]

We can be, but it just generally pisses me off worse and I'll shake it off and deal with what's at hand. That's just me and I'm not exactly a girlie girl. Oh the skinnier the woman, the worse it seems to hurt.

Anorak remind me not ti piss you off unless I REALLY far away!!

 

[Roninsensei]

The rule is you fight how you train. If your always trying to score points or submit then that ends up being your focus. I've been in several combat zones and your right Phoenix most of the training out there ain't for S#!t... And it's gotten good friends killed.. But Onisei is right too.. Training the right way is great. The Bujinkan is OK for that. They have 9 different systems under one roof so there's diversity that you don't usually get from the McDojo's... I've been training for going on 35 years and teach old and new stuff depending on what the client needs. But the basics always apply Eyes Throat and Groin for the win... Oh ya psycho bitch style works pretty good as well... lol

 

[Clyde]

The rule is you fight how you train. If your always trying to score points or submit then that ends up being your focus. I've been in several combat zones and your right Phoenix most of the training out there ain't for S#!t... And it's gotten good friends killed.. But Onisei is right too.. Training the right way is great. The Bujinkan is OK for that. They have 9 different systems under one roof so there's diversity that you don't usually get from the McDojo's... I've been training for going on 35 years and teach old and new stuff depending on what the client needs. But the basics always apply Eyes Throat and Groin for the win... Oh ya psycho bitch style works pretty good as well... lol

I couldn't agree more "Eyes, Throat, and Groin for the win." You do have to practice like you play, as you will revert to your training in a stressful situation. For me sparring has some good uses, but point sparring is a waste of time unless it is your lively hood.

I have also found if you are quick and decisive with your first move against your opponent then more likely than not if your opponent has friends they will stand down.

 

[PhoenixPrepping]

@Roninsensei: Oh I totally agree. And I definately agree with Onisei as well. All I was trying to say in my original post about Don't do it, was that many people go to McDojo and think they can win a fight or survive with what they learn. Thats why I was advising against it. Going to a place where you can train how you are going to fight is a different ball game. And Eyes, throat, groin ftw!! And like Clysdale said your first move counts for a lot. It is also the follow up to your first move that drives it home. Don't stop just because you get the upper hand, or you'll lose the upper hand.

 

[old_anorak]

Awwwww.... Phoenix, I didn't know you cared.

I will say something about the psycho bitch style, men tend to get a little flustered when a woman doesn't back down with their initial blustering, so when the woman steps up and is all 'bring it jackass' she has the upper hand because we aren't supposed to do that. If she's quick enough and isn't afraid to carry on through, those few seconds gained may be what puts things in her favor.

 

[PhoenixPrepping]

Yup, thats me, just a regular care bear here. ~calls out in a high pitched voice that sounds like his testicles have been shredded~ CARE BEARS CARE!!!

Awwwww.... Phoenix, I didn't know you cared.

I will say something about the psycho bitch style, men tend to get a little flustered when a woman doesn't back down with their initial blustering, so when the woman steps up and is all 'bring it jackass' she has the upper hand because we aren't supposed to do that. If she's quick enough and isn't afraid to carry on through, those few seconds gained may be what puts things in her favor.

I totally agree. My girlfriend and I spar all the time, no pads, no hold bar, and let me tell you she is FAST!! Most females don't have the strength a male does (with a few exceptions of course) but are usually faster and smarter in a fight than most guys. Granted if a fight draws out the female would be at a disadvantage but a female who keeps her head can eyes, throat, groin a guy while he is still trying to intimidate her.

Lucky me I don't underestimate ANY female (not since I got my ### whipped by one half my size) Got to love learning experiences.

 

[old_anorak]

Life does tend to have a way of teaching lessons.

 

[PhoenixPrepping]

Life, and feisty little firecrackers that climbed me like a jungle gym and damn near choked me out...