Bees

[Robinjopo1]

I'm looking at a out $400 for my start and I didn' think that was bad at all. I know not to expect much honey the first year. We pay $16 per quart for the honey we buy. So that will help offset some next year.

I basically want to help the environment and my gardens with the bees. If some little punk ### vandals ruin mine like the two instances in the news lately, I'll really ne mad then. $50k loss would be major.

 

[TexasFreedom]

I remember my first order. Only $500. 2 hive bodies & a couple of tools. I thought add a suit & I'm good to go! Cough, cough. It's an addiction! We have AA, NA, and BA (beekeepers anonymous).

I read about both of those cases. The one from a month ago in Iowa, a 12 year old and 13 year old have been arrested (juvi hall). I think it was 50 hives they knocked over & 500k bees froze to death. Two stupid kids did $60k in damage. That number may be a bit inflated ($1200/hive?), but I've also seen an individual pay $3k for one queen bee. Yes, one insect, three thousand dollars. If they lost special genetics, it could easily be a $60k loss. As usual, I've heard nothing about the families of those two kids. Were they raised by a mother and father in a loving home? Being kids, the BK could sue the parents of the two kids (if they have any money, or are they welfare leeches?). One interesting point, your homeowner's policy could actually cover the losses. Think about it, it's vandalism losses on your homestead property.

 

[Robinjopo1]

When it first happened, some were saying that they bet they did it for insurance.

They were proved wrong.

 

[TexasFreedom]

No way. For BK, to go and kill all your bees like this would be the same as a dog owner killing his pets. It's weird, but you get attached to them. One lady I know (they only had 1 hive) named her queen 'buttercup', and was always talking about Buttercup this & Buttercup that. Yes, there are crazy people out there, but I haven't seen that in the BK world as much. One or two hives out of 50? Sure, sometimes you have some weak hives or other issues that you need to cull them. But hives are easy enough to sell if you want out, why take this risk of getting caught? Nope.

 

[Robinjopo1]

It's 58 today so I'm scouting around for a place to put a hive or two. I read where the base should too down a bit in the front. It's very hard to find a level spot without rocks on our property. I've contacted another club and they are having a 3 day beginners seminar in March. Bad thing is it's all day for 3 days. Don't think I can do that. I'm the Saturday class, they are actually going to open a hive and add bees. I would love to see that.

 

[TexasFreedom]

Placements: Hive should be in a sunny spot. Ideally facing south (but not that important). Remember that off the entrance, there is a 'flight path' straight out, you don't want to be crossing that as they will get upset with you. And keep in mind there will be a "bee path" from their hive to their water source. Many people keep a chicken waterer (with rocks to prevent drowning) near the hive to minimize that (and keep in mind you'll be refilling it). Avoid a spot where they'll fly directly onto a neighbor's place (not sure how much land you have). And keep in mind that you'll be working the hive from behind, so have room to have things behind there. I also have something like a dog run panels around my hives to keep larger animals away from the hives. Cows will knock over hives. Even wild animals can cause issues. Again, prevention is well worth the cost.

Don't worry about the ground. You'll have the hive elevated, maybe 2' above ground level. You want it high enough that a skunk can't easily get to the entrance but not too high when you stack 4-5 boxes for you to reach. And on rocks is great, no worries about grass growing up & blocking the entrance. One thing I use are leg stands. It prevents ants from getting into the hive & chasing off the bees. I lost 2 colonies last year due to fire ants. Go on ebay, search for "bee ant barrier", $6 set of 4 legs. They work great.

Don't fret too much about the spot. You can move them later (ignore the 3ft/3 miles 'rule', there are easy ways to resolve that). But think about these things.

A class is great. Let me recommend a FREE option to get started.

Michael Bush presentation:

( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0Ci5Xs7UQNlD3qAkBg040Q , this bee club has a few good videos)

This one has 6 weeks of BK classes:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpLQ9Uo3isRaPGuqSYkVXcA/videos

Start HERE, with these. Learn some of the basics before you spend money. I'm not saying to not go to classes, hands-on is worth every penny times 10. But learn 'details' first so you can learn far more when you show up for a class.

 

[Robinjopo1]

You were right. Every BK tells a different story. I was told dappled sunlight. I am going to set it where it gets full morning sun but shade in afternoon.

I spoke to a local who said he would mentor me. He has nucs that he raised the entire colony including Italian queen. I was planning on using the chicken watering system because I do that with my chickens anyway. The wasp always go to my pool so I'm sure these would too. They usually just get a drink and leave since we don't bother them.

My plan is to get an extra deep (10) and a medium super to start with.

 

[TexasFreedom]

One thing to consider: with every answer you get, ask "why?". Not in a challenging way, but to understand the reasoning.

I'll answer. Full sun will give the hive full heat. Yes, that will overheat the hive in summer and they'll need more water and many bees trying to cool it. They'll even beard some. Perfect. I want the hive getting hot. (here's where you ask "But Why!?"). Simple. Varroa mites. They can't take higher temperatures but the bees can. In fact one company makes a heater that raises the hive to 106F for a few hours and it kills substantial numbers of varroa. Afternoon shade will significantly reduce that, and you may need to treat because you are lacking natural heat.

Note, all my hives are out in full sun, and I'm in Central Texas.

You have a pool. Ugh. Sure, a few wasps are no issue. When you have 200 bees coming 40 times a day to your pool, you'll think differently. There's another issue. Remember, everything to a bee is smell based. They love pool water. If you use clorine, one bee gets water there, goes back to the hive and tells the others the direction, and lets them smell the chlorine odor so they'll be able to smell it when they get closer. I don't know what they think of salt treated pool water. An option: get some "Pro Health" from Mann Lake. It has a real odor to it and it adds nutrients to the water. Put that in the chicken waterer so they can use that scent for finding it. You might even put a tablespoon or two of the water with pro-health on the entrance to the hive when you add the bees, let them smell it on day 1. And don't let it go dry.

 

[Robinjopo1]

One thing to consider: with every answer you get, ask "why?". Not in a challenging way, but to understand the reasoning.

I'll answer. Full sun will give the hive full heat. Yes, that will overheat the hive in summer and they'll need more water and many bees trying to cool it. They'll even beard some. Perfect. I want the hive getting hot. (here's where you ask "But Why!?"). Simple. Varroa mites. They can't take higher temperatures but the bees can. In fact one company makes a heater that raises the hive to 106F for a few hours and it kills substantial numbers of varroa. Afternoon shade will significantly reduce that, and you may need to treat because you are lacking natural heat.

Note, all my hives are out in full sun, and I'm in Central Texas.

You have a pool. Ugh. Sure, a few wasps are no issue. When you have 200 bees coming 40 times a day to your pool, you'll think differently. There's another issue. Remember, everything to a bee is smell based. They love pool water. If you use clorine, one bee gets water there, goes back to the hive and tells the others the direction, and lets them smell the chlorine odor so they'll be able to smell it when they get closer. I don't know what they think of salt treated pool water. An option: get some "Pro Health" from Mann Lake. It has a real odor to it and it adds nutrients to the water. Put that in the chicken waterer so they can use that scent for finding it. You might even put a tablespoon or two of the water with pro-health on the entrance to the hive when you add the bees, let them smell it on day 1. And don't let it go dry.

I don't use chlorine in my pool. 2 years ago we had a swarm for a few months and they would drink, but they didn't cause any problems. We tried the salt and oh my, the sweat bees were horrible. We use the ion generator now.

You have been such a wonderful help, but the wisest thing you have said is that each keeper has a different tale to tell

 

[TexasFreedom]

Glad to be of help. Most BK are very willing to help, unless maybe it's 2 big local competitors (or guys who just hate each other... I guess don't mention "Trump" or "Hillary" to any potential mentors!).

Ion generator sounds great. I know nothing about them, but I bet there is 1) no scent for the bees to key on 2) no salt to attract other bugs and 3) no offensive chlorine scent to you.

Until you get your bees, remember to ask your mentors/other group members that if you could come over when they are going to work, or even check their hives. Soon they should be checking to make sure none are 'light' (potential starve situation). But every time they go to their bee yard, see if you can join. You will learn tons just looking over their shoulder, handing them things, etc. They'll happily appreciate the help, very happily tell you everything they're doing and why, and appreciate you being there as their spouse "isn't into bees".

And watch one or two of those videos. Let me know what you think. Start with the last one, pick a video or two from the 6-week series. It covers lots of things in good detail. Pick which ones you want to learn first (you're not going to start making queens in year 1).

 

[Robinjopo1]

I've been watching the lazy beekeeper tips by Michael Bush. I'm rather worried about the weight. Don't understand why you can't take the frames out and not move the whole deep. He says he uses mediums, but all the others say start with deep 10s. Oh well, I do plan on buying a silly because I'm placing them too far from the house to carry . Which is whtbi thought you could just take out the frames, do the work they need them replace them.

 

[TexasFreedom]

A couple of points. As I said, I really like Michael Bush's commentaries & methods. Not everything he does in artic-zone Nebraska will work in Texas, but many do.

Keep in mind, MB is 50-something+ (me too). He likes mediums and 8 frame vs deeps and 10 frame for 1 reason: he doesn't want back surgery. Me too. A full 10 frame deep can weigh 100 lbs. I think MB has a table showing various weights. Compare that to a 8 frame medium, closer to 50 lbs. So when you are lifting off a deep super, 'pop' goes your back.

And there is a second reason. Keep in mind, everyone recommends having 2 hives. It's really important. When (not if) one hive gets weak (lost their queen, need workers, etc), you can take a frame or two from your strong hive to 'help' them. And I can vouch for this, it's like when you drop toast 85% of the time it lands butter-side down. Same thing with hives, you will always want to put a medium frame in a deep box or vice versa. When all of them are mediums, you are 100% certain that any frame can fit anywhere else (they are all mediums).

BTW, I think you had a typo, 'buying a silly'? When you are adding/removing from hives, you normally do a full box. Taking out the honey one frame at a time is difficult (you'll realize all the reasons when you try). You take out the full body, you replace it with an empty body. Less stress on the bees and on you among many other reasons.

 

[Robinjopo1]

Buying a dolly.. auto correct. Question. Can a nuc serve as a temp small hive in case I had to split before I could get another one. I'm finished asking questions tonight. I swear.

Oh, I will be 59 in 3 weeks. So I feel all the pain. Plus, I'm female and only weigh 118. I'm pretty strong though since I have to do all the gardening, fencing, etc .

Oh, I heard from the bee club in my county and they are rude compared to the adjoining county. Now I definitely know which one I want to join.

First impressions can make or break you

 

[TexasFreedom]

No problem, I'm usually up late.

A dolly will only help move it. You still have to LIFT the body off the hive and set it on the dolly. And a dolly won't help much here, a wheelbarrow might work better.

A nuc can work. If you have to split, you can do it a bunch of ways. Most nucs are 'deep', so that's not as helpful if you have medium frames. Now if you have a 2-body tall hive and need to split, each body can be separated. You'll need a 'top' and a 'bottom' for the second one, but a piece of cardboard or plywood would work in an emergency. You may need to shuffle frames to spread brood, but you have 2 bodies to arrange them in. You'll want to give each more space, but that's not needed immediately. I've got a few nuc bodies, but I've never used them.

PS: I just had a thought. Beekeeping is going to disappear. Think about the "Idiocracy" movie. People in coming generations will lack the intellect to be capable to keep bees. If they're eating tide pods now, they won't be able to do this... Very sad. Can you see with all the questions you have how complex this can be?

PPS: I just read a thread on another forum where a lady got bees, lost them the first winter. Second winter, lost a second hive. This is her third winter, and she's excited that her third colony is still alive. I don't want you to be doing what she has done, let's get it right on the first try.

 

[Robinjopo1]

No problem, I'm usually up late.

A dolly will only help move it. You still have to LIFT the body off the hive and set it on the dolly. And a dolly won't help much here, a wheelbarrow might work better.

A nuc can work. If you have to split, you can do it a bunch of ways. Most nucs are 'deep', so that's not as helpful if you have medium frames. Now if you have a 2-body tall hive and need to split, each body can be separated. You'll need a 'top' and a 'bottom' for the second one, but a piece of cardboard or plywood would work in an emergency. You may need to shuffle frames to spread brood, but you have 2 bodies to arrange them in. You'll want to give each more space, but that's not needed immediately. I've got a few nuc bodies, but I've never used them.

PS: I just had a thought. Beekeeping is going to disappear. Think about the "Idiocracy" movie. People in coming generations will lack the intellect to be capable to keep bees. If they're eating tide pods now, they won't be able to do this... Very sad. Can you see with all the questions you have how complex this can be?

PPS: I just read a thread on another forum where a lady got bees, lost them the first winter. Second winter, lost a second hive. This is her third winter, and she's excited that her third colony is still alive. I don't want you to be doing what she has done, let's get it right on the first try.

I totally agree. I want them to live even I I don' get any excess honey the first year. Which I probably won't.

 

[TexasFreedom]

Generally you should never take honey off the hive in the first year. There are exceptions, but that is 85% typical. The bees need to learn their region, build everything inside (comb), etc etc. Call it 'overhead'. That takes a fair bit of effort and energy which takes away from nectar/pollen collections.

 

[Robinjopo1]

Well, I placed my order today. I guess I'm official.

Talked to a local man who, along with others, have thousands of hives and they truck many of them out to Cali every year. He said they are doing avocados now, but doesnt do kiwi any more because they don' pay.

So is Cali running that low on bees that they have to ship them in from Tennessee. That's scary.

 

[TexasFreedom]

Not yet official! A friend got her boxes 2 years ago. And sadly they're still empty. But you may be close enough to hold your breath!

Moving hives is an industry in itself. A huge percentage of colonies move every few weeks to new customers. Avacados this week. Almonds next 3 weeks. Tomatoes after that... There is an East Coast 'circle' and a West Coast 'circle'. I can't remember, but something like 1/3rd or 1/2 of all hives go to CA for the almond crop. Almond makes some pollen but not much, but they pay really well, I think around $200 for a hive sitting there for 3 weeks. Keep in mind that moving hives is expensive, so it's not as profitable as it sounds (but it is good money).

Keep in mind, the more 'crop' the bees get from a plant the less it pays. 'Crop' meaning pollen/nectar. The idea is that if you are getting honey, that is supplemental to the cost of the bees sitting there. Most small BK are just local, no relocating of hives. But the 'big guys', with 10's of thousands of hives, they truck their colonies every week or two. But these big guys are also the ones losing 45+% of their colonies each year.

 

[Robinjopo1]

Not yet official! A friend got her boxes 2 years ago. And sadly they're still empty. But you may be close enough to hold your breath!

Moving hives is an industry in itself. A huge percentage of colonies move every few weeks to new customers. Avacados this week. Almonds next 3 weeks. Tomatoes after that... There is an East Coast 'circle' and a West Coast 'circle'. I can't remember, but something like 1/3rd or 1/2 of all hives go to CA for the almond crop. Almond makes some pollen but not much, but they pay really well, I think around $200 for a hive sitting there for 3 weeks. Keep in mind that moving hives is expensive, so it's not as profitable as it sounds (but it is good money).

Keep in mind, the more 'crop' the bees get from a plant the less it pays. 'Crop' meaning pollen/nectar. The idea is that if you are getting honey, that is supplemental to the cost of the bees sitting there. Most small BK are just local, no relocating of hives. But the 'big guys', with 10's of thousands of hives, they truck their colonies every week or two. But these big guys are also the ones losing 45+% of their colonies each year.

It seems like a lot of work taking them cross country. He said he would be out there until March then he woyld bring th3m home to do their work locally

 

[TexasFreedom]

Robin,

Most of the people who do this take truckloads, 18 wheelers. They can fit 400+ colonies on 1 truck. The almond crops pay $200+ per hive for a few weeks. That's $80k for 1 truck, not chump change. But they need manpower for loading and unloading, and they have to feed the bees sugar water because the almond trees don't supply any nectar, and they have losses. But $80k pays for a whole lot of that.

But, don't worry about that. You are getting hive #1 soon. You are not a trucker. You are not a commercial BK. Let's focus on getting YOUR hives started, surviving, and go from there.

Don't get too far ahead of yourself.