Bartering goods: Precious metals or other products?

[Gettingreadymama]

WOW! I never new any of that! I agree I would not take "money" for any of my saved and stock goods! I would trade for goods I need and or for the "fee" to get into a group or camp!! Thank you for the education!

 

[DrHenley]

One thing you will have to ask about a convenient medium of exchange is how will you transport it? Are you going to have to carry it around in a wheelbarrow? Or will it fit in your pocket?

Since we don't know what the "cost" of items will be in the SHTF, let's use current prices (some items will be much more valuable in the SHTF than now)

Let's say we are going to need $750 worth of our medium of exchange. Let's look at $750 worth of each of the following items:

Guns
Ammunition
Cigarettes
Beans
Water
Gold

Guns: Well that's easy. A $750 pistol will fit in your pocket.

Ammunition: 25 boxes of Winchester White Box 9mm (100 rounds each). Not going to fit in a pocket! We'll need a strong bag for that much ammo.

Cigarettes: 150 packs of cigarettes. Getting close to needing a wheelbarrow....

Beans: 43 bags of beans at 20 pounds each. That's 860 pounds of beans. We're going to need a good wheelbarrow and a very strong back on this one.

Water: 862 one gallon cartons of water. A wheelbarrow ain't gonna cut it!

Gold: 5 1/10th ounce Gold Eagle coins. Not only will they fit in your pocket, they can easily slide into your wallet.

 

[Gettingreadymama]

One thing you will have to ask about a convenient medium of exchange is how will you transport it? Are you going to have to carry it around in a wheelbarrow? Or will it fit in your pocket?

Since we don't know what the "cost" of items will be in the SHTF, let's use current prices (some items will be much more valuable in the SHTF than now)

Let's say we are going to need $750 worth of our medium of exchange. Let's look at $750 worth of each of the following items:

Guns
Ammunition
Cigarettes
Beans
Water
Gold

Guns: Well that's easy. A $750 pistol will fit in your pocket.

Ammunition: 25 boxes of Winchester White Box 9mm (100 rounds each). Not going to fit in a pocket! We'll need a strong bag for that much ammo.

Cigarettes: 150 packs of cigarettes. Getting close to needing a wheelbarrow....

Beans: 43 bags of beans at 20 pounds each. That's 860 pounds of beans. We're going to need a good wheelbarrow and a very strong back on this one.

Water: 862 one gallon cartons of water. A wheelbarrow ain't gonna cut it!

Gold: 5 1/10th ounce Gold Eagle coins. Not only will they fit in your pocket, they can easily slide into your wallet.

View attachment 2028

So if myself and family showed up to your house/camp and we were in need of a place to stay or just help to get us back on our way would you only want gold coins? Or would you be more likely to want the antibiotics? fresh containers of waterproof matches? Spices? Seeds? Water tablets? Myself...I would go for the items I can use or that I can use for another fair trade to survive! I would NOT take coins/gold only because the surviving from day to day will at the front of my mind for a long while before the stage of the WANT for wealth is back! I mean if a family came to mine and needed help and all that they had (physical items) were coins/gold or any kind of currency that would do NOTHING to help my family nor the other family eat, stay warm, have medication, or even purify water!! Just saying

 

[Gazrok]

Guns
Ammunition
Cigarettes
Beans
Water
Gold

Problem is, to be valuable for exchange, it has to be AGREED upon by all. That's the problem with gold in this list. I do believe that even post SHTF, eventually, the gold standard will return. However, it will ONLY happen when things have settled down enough for folks to MAKE those agreements. Even then, I can't imagine it having the same purchasing power post SHTF than the equivalent value (today's prices) in goods. THAT is why I believe it is foolish to stockpile precious metals. You're going to spend more now, and get less later.

The ONLY way you make out, is assuming things don't go south, so that you can later exchange it for a higher value in the peaceful (relative) world we all still reside in. Over time, it has proven to be a decent investment, but so up and down.

 

[jimLE]

only way i'll use any gun(s) and/or ammo for trade.is if i feel and beleave the person(s) im dealing with WON'T come back to use that aginst me.even then.only way i'll use them for trade,is if i came across some extras some how...on account im going with what i need only..and as for food water and other items goes.only IF i have the extra that thier needing..pluse,i wont let anyone know i have it if i dont trust them enough

 

[Swen_in_ca]

Yet, another 'Can't eat silver or gold' debate amongst the prepper community.

I am one of the people who argue that PM's are not for after a collapse, but rather as it's happening and for rebuilding. I understand where Gazrok is coming from, but any liquid asset afterwards is better than nothing.

So because you didn't want to lose 1/2 of your value you didn't buy PM's. You can barter your food and supplies but the new local government wants your property taxes and they won't take physical goods or American Express. Because most people you trade with are in the same boat as you, you can't even come up with $500 in property taxes and lose the $200,000 property you have all your stuff stored on. The Sheriff comes in seizing the property and everything on it, divying up your food amongst themselves because all their superiors want is your property. So by not spending $1000 on PM's so you wouldn't lose $500, you are now out everything.

Almost all people that advocate PM's always say as the last prep item. Only after your other preps are in order. I don't have much, only 200 ounces of silver, but it's just another prep, not an investment.

The argument that PM's will be worthless in an Apocalyptic Scenario is absolutely true, however, with government the way it is and with the technology, equipment and supplies behind them, I really don't see WROL (Without Rule of Law) lasting forever, it might not be the law we want, but there will still be government/taxes.

Another thing to bare in mind is, as the economy is crashing, the government will still be in control making the use of money still viable. PM's should maintain their relative value against the fiat currency. So when hyperinflation (triple digit) hits, PM's will follow, allowing you to purchase things still. Not per say making money but it won't deteriorate as bad as your paper money.

Just my opinion, but I treat my Preps like an investment portfolio. As with any investment portfolio, you should diversify to try to cover as many scenarios as possible.

If you haven't already, I strongly suggest you read John Pugsley's, The Alpha Strategy. It isn't really a long read and the strategies are the last 40 pages. The first 59 deals with 1979 economics at the end of the 70's Recession, which you could skip, but still a good read.

He lays out what some see as the foundation of prepping. Basically:

1. Knowledge and education, specifically skills.
2. Tangible assets. Consumer Goods that you will use and can trade if need be.
3. Precious Metals.

 

[DrHenley]

So if myself and family showed up to your house/camp and we were in need of a place to stay or just help to get us back on our way would you only want gold coins? Or would you be more likely to want the antibiotics? fresh containers of waterproof matches? Spices? Seeds? Water tablets?

Who is saying anything about refusing other mediums of exchange? Not me. As I have already stated, I have taken eggs as payment for work before. I'll take anything I perceive to be of value, including gold coins.

Try this exercise: Whatever you think the ideal medium of exchange is, carry $300 worth of it with you everywhere you go.

BTW, I carry a couple of gold coins in my wallet, worth about $300, everywhere I go - Just to prove this point. I also carry 3 $100 bills. The gold coins take up less space than the 3 $100 bills.

 

[Swen_in_ca]

Same here. To get through the tough times I'll trade what I got and can get.

After having been in this type of debate countless times in the last 5 years, I'm starting to realize that the 'You can't eat gold' crowd is too polarized.

Every PM Prepper I know adds PM as just another prep. That's after they have their other preps in order. If you show me a person who only buys PM's, then I'll show you an investor who is speculating on PM's, but is not a prepper by definition.

But having Precious Metals gives you options throughout the collapse and during the rebuilding, that bartering only trade goods does not. Thinking that Gold or Silver will buy you what you need all the time is as wrong as thinking they won't be of some value afterwards.

IMO they will be one of the few forms of money that is convertible to the new monetary system.

 

[Gettingreadymama]

Yet, another 'Can't eat silver or gold' debate amongst the prepper community.

I am one of the people who argue that PM's are not for after a collapse, but rather as it's happening and for rebuilding. I understand where Gazrok is coming from, but any liquid asset afterwards is better than nothing.

So because you didn't want to lose 1/2 of your value you didn't buy PM's. You can barter your food and supplies but the new local government wants your property taxes and they won't take physical goods or American Express. Because most people you trade with are in the same boat as you, you can't even come up with $500 in property taxes and lose the $200,000 property you have all your stuff stored on. The Sheriff comes in seizing the property and everything on it, divying up your food amongst themselves because all their superiors want is your property. So by not spending $1000 on PM's so you wouldn't lose $500, you are now out everything.

Almost all people that advocate PM's always say as the last prep item. Only after your other preps are in order. I don't have much, only 200 ounces of silver, but it's just another prep, not an investment.

The argument that PM's will be worthless in an Apocalyptic Scenario is absolutely true, however, with government the way it is and with the technology, equipment and supplies behind them, I really don't see WROL (Without Rule of Law) lasting forever, it might not be the law we want, but there will still be government/taxes.

Another thing to bare in mind is, as the economy is crashing, the government will still be in control making the use of money still viable. PM's should maintain their relative value against the fiat currency. So when hyperinflation (triple digit) hits, PM's will follow, allowing you to purchase things still. Not per say making money but it won't deteriorate as bad as your paper money.

Just my opinion, but I treat my Preps like an investment portfolio. As with any investment portfolio, you should diversify to try to cover as many scenarios as possible.

If you haven't already, I strongly suggest you read John Pugsley's, The Alpha Strategy. It isn't really a long read and the strategies are the last 40 pages. The first 59 deals with 1979 economics at the end of the 70's Recession, which you could skip, but still a good read.

He lays out what some see as the foundation of prepping. Basically:

1. Knowledge and education, specifically skills.
2. Tangible assets. Consumer Goods that you will use and can trade if need be.
3. Precious Metals.

We are among the families that live paycheck to paycheck and when it comes to prepping my thoughts are to

Same here. To get through the tough times I'll trade what I got and can get.

After having been in this type of debate countless times in the last 5 years, I'm starting to realize that the 'You can't eat gold' crowd is too polarized.

Every PM Prepper I know adds PM as just another prep. That's after they have their other preps in order. If you show me a person who only buys PM's, then I'll show you an investor who is speculating on PM's, but is not a prepper by definition.

But having Precious Metals gives you options throughout the collapse and during the rebuilding, that bartering only trade goods does not. Thinking that Gold or Silver will buy you what you need all the time is as wrong as thinking they won't be of some value afterwards.

IMO they will be one of the few forms of money that is convertible to the new monetary system.

That is to say that there is a government left to collect the taxes! When you consider the worse case all of the top people will be sent to one of many locations with provisions to last for a long time while the rest of us struggle to survive!! So with that said, coins and PM's are items that could be useless!!! Besides when you go out to find items needed to live I am sure that there will be many to find!

 

[Swen_in_ca]

I'm not saying it is a must have, but it's just one more item in your preps to cover different scenarios.

I really don't believe that government is just going to roll over and go away, just my opinion. Some form of control and taxes have been with us since the dawn of time and unless it's really the biblical Apocalypse it's not going to go away. If it is a biblical Apocalypse and you believe in the Tribulation, control and taxes will come in a different form afterwards.

I'm just saying that PM's are a good hedge against other contingencies, if you have the resources to do them.

I know all about living paycheck to paycheck, trust me.

 

[Gettingreadymama]

I'm not saying it is a must have, but it's just one more item in your preps to cover different scenarios.

I really don't believe that government is just going to roll over and go away, just my opinion. Some form of control and taxes have been with us since the dawn of time and unless it's really the biblical Apocalypse it's not going to go away. If it is a biblical Apocalypse and you believe in the Tribulation, control and taxes will come in a different form afterwards.

I'm just saying that PM's are a good hedge against other contingencies, if you have the resources to do them.

I know all about living paycheck to paycheck, trust me.

I do understand what you are saying. But the way I look at things if we are still able to work, shop, and get things that we NEED and Want then its not that bad!! Lost our house in the Housing bust NOT A BIG DEAL compared to no food, no water, no electric, mass riots, and so on!! For that is what I am prepping for!!! Trust me the government will go away to a bunker that would blow your mind and with the elements that bad they will stay there for a LONG WHILE!!! THAT WHY THEY WERE BUILT!

 

[DrHenley]

I believe that some States will reassert their sovereignty in the SHTF. Maybe not secession in the legal sense, but they will take the bull by the horns and do what is necessary for the protection of their citizens. Roving gangs will not last long in these states because the people and governments will simply not put up with it.

My BOL is in one of those states...

 

[ccarter_84]

I prep bulk tobacco like this

not this brand but whatever brand the local smoke shop carries. It's $12 a bag and with a little work can be kept fresh for years. In a shtf situation seeing that's it's loose it can be traded by the gram or ounce.

 

[Myrrph]

i still believe that sooner or later there will be a need for currency of sorts. its just easier.

I don't smoke so I won't need smokes. I won't know what guns will be available coz they aren't legal here. I know that I have xbow darts which I will try to use to hunt and using other currently legal means as deterrents. I've been exploring NERF (yes yes, laugh at us ... we have strict weapons and other stuff laws here) as a deterrent. The darts modified hurt alot and with a little work, with pins and stuff, become good deterrents.

but there will be a time where you come up with me with something, say, oh, clothes? which I won't need ... or fish? which I won't need too (I am intending the fish myself) maybe seeds? but if you want like my extra xbow for a pack of seeds? REALLY ?

no way in hell am I trading a small number of items for my extra crossbow.

 

[DrHenley]

It will be a multi-tiered system, with the medium of exchange based on which tier you are in.

Chump change: 22 Ammunition, Seeds, Cigarettes, Rice, Beans, Water, Coffee, Lead.
Small change: Centerfire Ammunition, Batteries, Fuel, Liquor, Silver.
Big ticket items: Guns, Vehicles, Generators, Gold.

I don't think people will be buying rice with gold. Nor will will they be buying vehicles with rice.
The value of guns and ammunition will vary greatly depending on two factors:

Were they legal before the SHTF? In this part of the U.S. there will be more than ample supply. In some parts of the U.S. and other countries, the supply may be very short.

Are they "legal" after the SHTF? In other words, will you be shot on sight just because you have a gun.

 

[69Powerwagon]

I put all my extra money in guns and ammo. Guns simply do not lose value, even if society keeps teetering along like it has the guns will only gain in value. In a total SHTF situation a gun and some ammo will be worth almost any big ticket item you want to trade for with someone else. For everyday barter a skill like brewing and distilling would come in handy.

 

[Potter County Man]

In Matthew, Jesus said - 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE'

Now I don't know about you, but my mom died about 3 years ago, I would give $100 for one loaf of her bread right about now.

Just imagine how much a loaf of bread would be worth to you after about 3 years of not having any!
Even in the time of Cleopatra, they had bakers and bread.
Cleopatra is credited with inventing Toast, actually she didn't actually bake the bread, she just requested it for her meal because she liked eating it, - technically bakers have been burning bread - (toast) for thousands of years - and that is your fun fact for today.

Unless you have a way to grow and process grains and make your own yeast, eventually you will run out of one or the other and then you will run out of bread..

When the Peasants were starving in the time of Queen Marie Antoinette - she said if they did not have enough to eat, let them eat cake. At that time, the ingredients to bake cake were even more expensive then the ingredients to bake bread.
When the Peasants captured the royal family, they said, we have the baker and we have the bakers wife and soon we shall have some bread!

The people weren't asking for money - since there was not any inventory in the stores in sufficient enough quanity to feed everyone, they were in fact asking for something to eat!

 

[69Powerwagon]

Unless you have a way to grow and process grains and make your own yeast, eventually you will run out of one or the other and then you will run out of bread..

I don't know how easy or hard it is to grow or process grains, but I do know you can keep a strain of yeast you like going if you have access to a cool dry place for keeping sourdough bread.

 

[Gettingreadymama]

I don't know how easy or hard it is to grow or process grains, but I do know you can keep a strain of yeast you like going if you have access to a cool dry place for keeping sourdough bread.

That is good information! Thank you

 

[Myrrph]

yup and apparently for yeast, as long as you keep adding dough, it'll multiply. Coz yeast is essentially a form of bacteria ... i think.