Bartering goods: Precious metals or other products?

[DrHenley]

i watched a doomsday prepper show one time.where a father n son casted some rounds after the dad had gone out n colleted some whights that was used to balance car tires.they melted it down,then cleaned out the crud debree n all.then casted the rounds

What you need for smelting wheel weights is a cast iron pot (not too big!) and an outdoor burner of some sort. My gas grill has a side burner which is what I use.

You need a ladle that is either slotted or has a narrow spout for separating the crud from the lead.

Fill the pot with wheel weights and fire up the burner. After a while you'll have a sea of molten lead with crud floating in it. The hard part is scooping out the crud without wasting too much lead. You need to keep stirring the pot and you need to flux it with beeswax or rosin. Try to stay upwind of the pot, as there will be some unhealthy fumes.

Then pour the lead into an ingot mold. I use a cast iron cornbread pan for an ingot mold.

 

[jimLE]

my dad use to do that..but he used the lead for lead whights for lefting whights (working out)

 

[Myrrph]

I think the important thing to note is that when you try to barter and there is nothing in common mutually, there will be a need for some form of currency.

but some of you are correct. for the immediate future after the SHTF, gold will have almost no value. So if you are a supply prepper, might be good to trade your extras for gold. It'll be valuable after it stabilizes.

 

[Gazrok]

Even after stabilization though, it will be a LONG time before it gets to the value of what it was before things went to hell....

Bet I could buy a lot more trading cigarettes, booze, or food items.

 

[jimLE]

yeah.i bet i could get a gallon of water with a cartin of smokes before i get it with gold/silver or some other metal after tshtf happens.


lets say you have 2 pounds of gold or silver coins.and you come to me for some food n water for a day or two.do you think and/or beleave i'll acept the gold? no i wont.id rather go with some thing i'll need right then n there,or later on..be it for personal use or trade later on.

 

[Myrrph]

think the argument is that as a supply prepper and you have a ton and a half of prepping supplies, the extras can be traded for gold or silver.

I'm thinking longer term here. Initially selling your extra supplies or grown supplies could make you the big honcho in the new world and you can slowly build your kingdom from there. Of course, if we have one of those Waterworld kinda SHTF scenarios then we're all screwed.

 

[BerettaFan]

Right or wrong ... here's what I have done. It pretty much says what I think gold and silver will be worth after SHTF. I turned my silver into $$$$$ (yes ... I had silver quarters ... dimes, etc.) I then ... used the $$$$$ (while it still has some value) and invested in weapons, ammo and other assorted prepping goods. Some of these goods can be used for bartering purposes if need be.

If anyone chooses to continue to invest in gold and silver ... that is their prerogative and they will not get any argument from me, but I still think the motivation comes from greed and the unwillingness to 'let go'.

Of course ... values placed on everything including gold and silver will depend upon the severity of the SHTF situation. If it is short term ... and 'thing's' go back to somewhat normal ... gold and silver will have value, but I personally don't see that happening. That's not what I am preparing for.

A five gallon bucket of rice will be worth far more than a gold bar. Chances are I will not trade a bar of soap for a pre-1964 quarter.

A good question that everyone must ask themselves. "What will be more valuable to me when chaos reigns and I am trying to survive ... a roll of quarters or a roll of TP?"

 

[DrHenley]

Nobody is saying you should not have food, water, ammo, toilet paper, etc.

What everyone is going to find out is that these commodities will be valuable, but barter is terribly inefficient. There is a principle economists call "Coincidence of Wants." For barter to success, two parties must have something the other wants. At the same time, and at the same place.

So let's say you find that someone has something you want, lets say beans. And since toilet paper is so valuable, you carry along 20 rolls with you to trade with. But he doesn't want toilet paper, he wants rice. You simply can't carry everything you consider valuable around in your pocket.

As more and more people realize how terribly inefficient barter is, there will develop some medium of exchange that has the following properties:

It has units of account. Rounds of ammunition, Pounds of rice, rolls of toilet paper, ounces of gold, dollars and cents, etc.
It is portable. You can carry it around without having to carry it in a wheelbarrow. It will preferably fit in your pocket or wallet.
It is durable. It doesn't quickly rust, rot, spoil, or corrode.
It is divisible. A rifle may be valuable, but you can't very well divide in two and expect it to retain any value.
It is fungible (interchangeable without changing value). The one you have is worth the same as the one I have.
It is a store of value. It will still be valuable ten years from now.

Something that has all of these properties is called "real money". The dollar has lost something like 95% of its value since we went off the Bretton Woods gold-backed system in 1971, when it became "fiat money" so it fails the last test.


Since the sixth century B.C., gold coins have been the preferred form of "real money" all over the world.

As Winston Churchill said: "The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see."

 

[Gazrok]

I agree with the idea that eventually, as things stabilized, precious metals would likely again be used for currency. What I disagree with, is the amount of purchasing power you'd have with it. It's a poor investment to take a major loss on. If a $500 piece of gold can buy only $100 worth of actual goods post SHTF, then you've just lost $400 worth of purchasing power. I just can't see metals having the same worth and purchasing power in any other scenario other than an economic collapse. So, all your metals hoarding would be for that ONE scenario.

 

[jimLE]

true gazrok..i agree with that.but if i figure right.lead will retain more vaule then other metals simply because it can be melted down and made into bullets.and i just thought.if a person has a way to melt down copper,and make copper caseing for ammo.then they have a head start at makeing more ammo.but the trick is,comeing up with every thing thats needed for that.

 

[Gazrok]

I still think the best economic (and safety) hedge is going to be to become a producer of a wanted good or service that takes skill and knowledge to do. Whether it's growing food, medicine, or fixing things, etc., those folks will have a pretty good meal ticket...and be undesirable to kill as their skills are much more useful with them alive....

 

[Brent S]

I agree that the US dollar isn't likely to have any value, but I think some jewelry will still be valuable as people will still desire it. Gold has been sought after since the beginning of time, and even though you can't eat it, I believe it will still have value. I like what gazrok said about skills, I think being able to produce a tangible product will be valuable. I can't predict exactly how the world will change, as no one can, so I'm trying to cover as many bases as I can. I have a fair amount of ammo saved, am learning not just to produce food but to preserve it also, I have a little bit of silver and jewelry, am producing wine, have gathered lots of tools, have some medical skills, etc. I don't specialize in any one thing, and don't claim to be an expert in anything, but I'm working on a well balanced and varied set of supplies and skills. My gut feeling is that we are going to have a collapse, and some sort of military take over. The problem is how long before there is a takeover, and how bad will it get for the six months or so before some order is restored. Eating, drinking, and security are all going to be difficult, I suggest we all try to cover as many bases as we can. Good luck to us all!

 

[Myrrph]

i agree with the idea of having skills and resources to do something. The ability to build and develop has always been us human being's greatest asset, next to our opposable thumbs that is.

I don't think I said to keep gold. I meant to build a supply dump to collect them, because eventually with stabilization comes the need for currency.

 

[jimLE]

i admit,the economy might/will stabilize after a complete and total economic collapse.(BUT) what if that day don't ever come in our life time?what you gonna do with the metals that are considered worthless.? i believe one jar for home canned food will be worth more then 200 pounds of gold or silver 100/200 years after a economic collapse.those metals wont build me a home,or plant and grow me a garden.they wont nurse me back to good health when im sick.they wont make any repairs.they wont attend to life stock.one can of store bought vegetables will be worth more to me then those metals.only metals i see having value is lead on account it can be melted for bullets for ammo and sinkers for fishing.and cooper for wind mill and other uses it has value in..

 

[Arcticdude]

i admit,the economy might/will stabilize after a complete and total economic collapse.(BUT) what if that day don't ever come in our life time?what you gonna do with the metals that are considered worthless.? i believe one jar for home canned food will be worth more then 200 pounds of gold or silver 100/200 years after a economic collapse.those metals wont build me a home,or plant and grow me a garden.they wont nurse me back to good health when im sick.they wont make any repairs.they wont attend to life stock.one can of store bought vegetables will be worth more to me then those metals.only metals i see having value is lead on account it can be melted for bullets for ammo and sinkers for fishing.and cooper for wind mill and other uses it has value in..

I agree that saving (hording) tools, seeds, lead, ammo, etc. and learning the skills needed to be self-sufficient will be critical during a total economic collapse. And they will be the more valuable than precious metals in the short term. However, I do believe that its a little arrogant to think that the only true form of money (gold & silver) that has been accepted since the beginning of time, will become worthless. I think the wise thing to do is an all of the above approach. While I do recommend keeping some gold and silver on hand, it is at the bottom of my list after land, food, water, shelter, protection, etc.

 

[jimLE]

good point,and true.im not saying it'll be totally worthless no matter what.it'll be worthless enough to me where i wont stock up on it.now lets say a complete economic collapse happens.and each of us here survive it.now lets say things settle down where hords of ppl stop comeing by for what ever reason(s).now if things are looking good 10/15 years later.chances are,i might trade/sell you some food clothes or what ever for some gold and/or silver.but not untill then.like you pointed out. a home/land/food/weapons and ammo/skills/seeds and other things come first.and thats my goal.im going with what will not only help survive and live.but stocking up on extra items of need will help 10/20 years from now..

 

[DrHenley]

This subject has been studied at length many times by "experts." Well, we all know about "experts" but let's not "throw out the baby with the bathwater." Some of what they say contains valuable information, even if they come to the wrong conclusions.

Ancient Lydia hit upon an idea somewhere around 700 B.C. that was so good, it has been copied by every civilization since. We'll look at why when I get back from the holidays and hopefully we can all learn something.

 

[Brent S]

I just saw a show about the US dollar today.(kind of depressing for cmass day.). It was pretty serious about our dollar, which has been the world standard for so long, is quickly slipping. There were multiple 'experts' talking about gold and silver, and every one of them were pro for it. The part I was most interested in was when countries currency tanked in the past, it usually happened really quickly. They had several examples, and in the early stages of it, people lined up to buy tangible supplies and goods, but it ran out immediately. I'm happy to be with a group that is wise enough to think about these things beforehand.

 

[Myrrph]

i am now packing trading stuff. I will NOT trade food though.

Spare matches, Hotel Soap, Shampoo etc ... what else is good?

 

[Gazrok]

what else is good

Cigarettes! Small, light, easily divisible, and will give you a huge return on your purchasing power come SHTF.