Anyone had group of 100+ for more than 10 years?

[Dave_V]

Male	Female
33 Adults	27 Adults
15 12 to 18	27 12 to 18
14 under 12	11 Under 12
62	65

So the ratio is close to 1 to 1

 

[wheresclair]

Wow that is many little kids! We had problem kids telling family secret so now kids must be 16 to know things. Is this how you do it also?

 

[bigpaul]

okay for now, but is a group of over 100 post SHTF even possible to survive? I mean just think of the logistics for such a huge group, just food, water, clothing and shelter, thats besides the possibilities of arguement and friction in such a huge group, think of all the ego's that could be bruised and hurt human nature being what it is.

 

[Dave_V]

okay for now, but is a group of over 100 post SHTF even possible to survive? I mean just think of the logistics for such a huge group, just food, water, clothing and shelter, thats besides the possibilities of arguement and friction in such a huge group, think of all the ego's that could be bruised and hurt human nature being what it is.

Paul,

You are right about big groups, they can get chaotic quickly, but I believe in our case we will be much better off with over 100 but you need context to see what I mean.

If 100 random people (some of them friends) rushed and crammed into even an ample sized and well stocked shelter for a year to escape fallout etc exactly what you said would happen.
Someone would decide they were a better leader and stage a coup.
Some group would decide that they should “safeguard” more resources for themselves.
Someone would take justice into their own hands if they feel they’ve been wronged and start a war.
People might not look after one another because they figure that’ll be one less mouth to feed.

In the our group, we’re not just a big hole in the ground; we’ve had 31 years to try and get it right. We’ve always got something to learn and we know a big group requires serious organization, but we’ve built very slowly and developed a culture where we respect each other and our command structure.

• Everyone has a stewardship and is respected in that role.
• We train for our roles and everyone has multiple stewardships for during and after.

For instance some teens (and adults) have monthly training with their adult mentors in cooking for a big group with electricity and over an open fire. Those same kids know exactly what we have stocked in canned foods and what can tastefully be served cold if needed. That group also works with the hydroponic team that looks after our in-house crops but are also trained to farm in dirt for afterwards. We have a considerably sized seed bank which we add to yearly and they use the oldest for their practice crops. Both of these groups work with our Pharmacist, Medicinal Chemist, and GP who teach students to recognize symptoms of common ailments and the best drug from our pharmacy to treat them. They also have learned to recognize common medicinal plants and in fact our hydroponic team grows some of them. Everyone works with everyone and recognizes their value to the group. We have carefully chosen skills that we will need as a group during an event, but also skills that could allow a continuation of some normalcy if an irreversible event occurred as Clair referred to.

Most importantly to the kids, is that all the skills they learn put them in position for great jobs if nothing ever happens.

 

[Dave_V]

Another quick anecdote: About 5 years ago, after a long weekend working with about 30 teens and all their stewardship teams, the coordinator, on a whim asked the kids if being part of Vidan made them feel like they were missing out. One girl’s answer really stood out. She said her “outside” friends still all worried about things they thought they had no control over: boyfriends, looks, weight, parents divorcing, loneliness, cancer…but almost none had concerns about EMPs, fallout, or starvation. She said at first when she started learning about these possibilities, fears of these replaced her self-centered worries about her own life. But soon after that she realized that even though she couldn’t control them, she was part of something big that was preparing to try to keep her safe and all the people she cared about. She said it is like a secret power she calls on anytime she worries about something mundane like acne. There were a lot of nods and she was patted on the shoulders by many after the group finished. The kids really do enjoy being with each other and the only cliques are them taunting the other groups about what cool thing they did that day. Needless to say, we’ve now added “Amber’s power rule” to our training so that kids don’t spend even one night terrified about what might happen.

 

[Amish Heart]

I like that. It is so necessary to teach our younger generations. We raise three of our grandkids, and do our best to teach them self sufficiency. Right now our grandson is outside butchering extra roosters. It is very important to teach those around you in your group or family group how to use food storage, butcher, and create more food.

 

[Proud Prepper]

Paul,

You are right about big groups, they can get chaotic quickly, but I believe in our case we will be much better off with over 100 but you need context to see what I mean.

If 100 random people (some of them friends) rushed and crammed into even an ample sized and well stocked shelter for a year to escape fallout etc exactly what you said would happen.
Someone would decide they were a better leader and stage a coup.
Some group would decide that they should “safeguard” more resources for themselves.
Someone would take justice into their own hands if they feel they’ve been wronged and start a war.
People might not look after one another because they figure that’ll be one less mouth to feed.

In the our group, we’re not just a big hole in the ground; we’ve had 31 years to try and get it right. We’ve always got something to learn and we know a big group requires serious organization, but we’ve built very slowly and developed a culture where we respect each other and our command structure.

• Everyone has a stewardship and is respected in that role.
• We train for our roles and everyone has multiple stewardships for during and after.

For instance some teens (and adults) have monthly training with their adult mentors in cooking for a big group with electricity and over an open fire. Those same kids know exactly what we have stocked in canned foods and what can tastefully be served cold if needed. That group also works with the hydroponic team that looks after our in-house crops but are also trained to farm in dirt for afterwards. We have a considerably sized seed bank which we add to yearly and they use the oldest for their practice crops. Both of these groups work with our Pharmacist, Medicinal Chemist, and GP who teach students to recognize symptoms of common ailments and the best drug from our pharmacy to treat them. They also have learned to recognize common medicinal plants and in fact our hydroponic team grows some of them. Everyone works with everyone and recognizes their value to the group. We have carefully chosen skills that we will need as a group during an event, but also skills that could allow a continuation of some normalcy if an irreversible event occurred as Clair referred to.

Most importantly to the kids, is that all the skills they learn put them in position for great jobs if nothing ever happens.

Do you have Sodium Chlorite? The most useful mineral for disinfectant and medicinal oxidizer. Makes Chlorine Dioxide Solution to kill all viruses like covid and all bacterial infections, parasites.

 

[Dave_V]

Rellgar,
I know we have sodium hypochlorite for water treatment and to neutralize nerve gas on our gear if someone gets exposed while outside reconnoitering after an event. I think it' may be something stored in the water treatment area, but I'll check with someone that knows.

EDIT: Yep, we have it and I got a lecture on how handy it is ! Good stuff.

 

[Dave_V]

Clair,
I got your answer on the underwater solar cells but I'll send you some charts and graphs as well. You may have to search a bit to find these in your area. The amorphous silicon solar cells are a little more expensive, but their underwater output is definitely better than the old Polycrystalline cell type. Maybe try buying a small one and see what kind of output you get at different depths?

https://newatlas.com/underwater-solar-cells/22896/These guys are using gallium indium phosphide (GaInP) which is too expensive,
but according to these guys, it may be super cheap in just a couple of years.
https://www.pv-magazine-australia.com/2020/01/15/solar-cells-from-space-are-on-the-way/
More light reading
https://scitechdaily.com/more-efficient-underwater-solar-cells-with-optimal-materials/https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/03...r-pv-cells-with-wide-band-gap-semiconductors/

 

[Maverick]

To many people attract attention before and after a SHTF especially in a TEOTWAWKI.

If for whatever reason that group needs to evac 100 people especially when kids are involved in very short notice is going to be a very slow trek. All that worrying about the kids and women folks, who becomes the sacrificial lambs? For that, I never wanted a big group!

 

[Amish Heart]

But without women and children, you are not sustainable. Teach the women and children to help and defend where you are. I doubt that all hundred of them would be out and running around in plain sight all the time. There would be a large enough number needed to even provide round the clock security. Then more to hunt, forage, cook, do laundry...you name it.

 

[Arcticdude]

2 people is enough for me. Of course the kids are welcome any time.

 

[Dave_V]

To many people attract attention before and after a SHTF especially in a TEOTWAWKI.

If for whatever reason that group needs to evac 100 people especially when kids are involved in very short notice is going to be a very slow trek. All that worrying about the kids and women folks, who becomes the sacrificial lambs? For that, I never wanted a big group!

Maverick,
We are where we are...there's no turning around. We've practiced for a total s-storm more times than any of us can remember and we're really good at it. Everyone knows where to go and there's no confusion, just calm. Yeah, the real one will be different, but practice makes a huge difference. If we can't communicate, we could lose a few getting there and there's no consoling that will help the initial grief, but depending on the event, we plan to leave no one behind. Probably stupid sounding, but anyone of us would risk their lives to bring in someones missing child if it seems possible. The schools are less than half a mile away and most of us live in town as close as possible. Only one member lives almost 30 minutes away and she's so connected I'll willing to bet she'd be on her way before we even know something's going down. We're in a giant Faraday cage, and if an EMP takes out our camera's we can replace them and be ready to open any entrance to our late comers. Certainly, to each their own ways, but we've come too far to change now.

 

[bigpaul]

I dont think big groups are sustainable over here, any groups here will be family units and family only, I dont think I have known 100 people in my entire life and its much too large a group if resources are limited and they will be post SHTF.

 

[Dave_V]

I dont think big groups are sustainable over here, any groups here will be family units and family only, I dont think I have known 100 people in my entire life and its much too large a group if resources are limited and they will be post SHTF.

Paul,
I think you'd have to spend a month with us pre-SHTF to get a feel for just how well this large group gets along, how well trained they are, how loyal and committed they are, and just how damn good they are.
You'd see we have more than enough of everything for 300+ to spend 5 years completely off-grid for 5+ years and we're constantly improving our people, our facilities, and our resources.

..and then of course we'd have to kill you, but at least you'd die knowing it can be done.

 

[wheresclair]

Clair,
I got your answer on the underwater solar cells but I'll send you some charts and graphs as well. You may have to search a bit to find these in your area. The amorphous silicon solar cells are a little more expensive, but their underwater output is definitely better than the old Polycrystalline cell type. Maybe try buying a small one and see what kind of output you get at different depths?

Dave, Thank you! I will try one.
Many Amorphous Silicon Solar Cells to buy - some small to test
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/200w-amorphous-solar-panel.html

 

[wheresclair]

Dave,
Maybe I can come visit without the killing part? If you could start a school of own, you could train kids from all over world and then they come home to train their parents! Problem is you may have too many people if SHTF. Also, lot of people to keep the secret about where place is if you show them. You could build different place under your new school then your place is safe?! Think about?!

 

[bigpaul]

Paul,
I think you'd have to spend a month with us pre-SHTF to get a feel for just how well this large group gets along, how well trained they are, how loyal and committed they are, and just how damn good they are.
You'd see we have more than enough of everything for 300+ to spend 5 years completely off-grid for 5+ years and we're constantly improving our people, our facilities, and our resources.

..and then of course we'd have to kill you, but at least you'd die knowing it can be done.

100+people pre SHTF will be very different to 100+ post SHTF, different set of circumstances and a different way of living, most people couldnt live like that and wont live like that.
where I live 100 is far too big a group and would not be sustainable.

 

[Dave_V]

100+people pre SHTF will be very different to 100+ post SHTF, different set of circumstances and a different way of living, most people couldnt live like that and wont live like that.
where I live 100 is far too big a group and would not be sustainable.

Paul,
I agree, in your situation a small group seems best.
In case you took it that way, I never meant for anyone to think that 100+ is a good number for every group.
In our situation, we know that we've got it covered and we'll be better off together.
Everyone has a different situation and we can only judge what we know.

 

[Dave_V]

Dave,
Maybe I can come visit without the killing part? If you could start a school of own, you could train kids from all over world and then they come home to train their parents! Problem is you may have too many people if SHTF. Also, lot of people to keep the secret about where place is if you show them. You could build different place under your new school then your place is safe?! Think about?!

Clair, I can see that you might be serious and I don’t want to just ignore your question, but it’s kind of a moral conundrum. Location security is one of the hardest things we have to deal with. Kids have no clue about a lot of things until we think they are ready and the reveal is always one kid at a time and performed by their peers and with their parent’s full knowledge. We’ve found this works way better than an adult scrambling their reality. The difficulty with your question is possibly trading our community's security for “the greater good.”

If we were to take on an international boarding school, it would certainly take tens of millions of dollars, getting accredited, staffing it with “regular subject” teachers as well as “specialty or extracurricular” teachers. I can see how it might help some other communities with less training resources, but there’s no question it would “get out” and probably create a lot of unwanted media attention and very likely reveal our facility. Minimally, it would distract us from our own training and readiness.

The idea of spreading the knowledge around…we’ve definitely considered it, but selfishly, it would probably be better for our community’s safety to try to accomplish the same through e-books or a website. Until we do something like that, I’ll try to answer your questions as straight forwardly as I can, but I feel pretty certain we’d never go the route of opening a school that would be internationally available.

P.S. Opening our own small all grade level charter school inside the shopping center for our own kids would cut travel time down to almost nothing! Thanks for the idea! It’s definitely worth long range consideration.