Antibiotics when do we use them ??¿¿

Prepper & Survivalism Forum

Help Support Doomsday Prepper Forums:

doc pops

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
199
Reaction score
123
Location
Florida
So I see a lot of talk about antimicrobials// antibiotics and where to find them.
So now you/we have them how and when do they get used? Do you know which drug, how, when, how much/ length of course, 1, 2,3, or 4 times a day, for how many days. What about anaphylaxis, this could kill the person or love one your trying to help. Is this a virius or a bacterial infection if medical, or trauma bacterial from an infected wound, then is it gran negative or gram positive. If from trauma can we clean and or debris the wound and use honey and keep the wound in an anaerobic state to promote healing ! ? Could we use maggots the do the work for us? When maggots get in a wound they only eat the dead flesh, there excretion has antibodies and helps the wound heal faster. Researchers have been working with the chronic wounds from diabetes patients. The FDA now has medical maggots, why because of MERSA, why do we have MERSA? Because as a whole our society has used antibiotics to liberally to combat every thing sort of like the shotgun on a squirrel, when a .22 would work. Enough of the rumblings.

So you think someone has an UTI! How can you tell? No pain! Dark strong smelling urine. Could this be from dehydration. They may have cloudy urine, more likely, an UTI, also could be strong smell. Some people when they have an UTI become altered. Here are the common signs and symptoms
* burns when you urinate
* feel like you have to urinate often, but only a little comes out
* belly feels tender and heave
* urine cloudy and or smells bed
* pain under ribs in back on one side, this is where your kidneys are
* fever chills
* nausea and vomiting.
You also could have a $10.00, UTI test strip kit, 3 strips

What about, Strep Throat? S/S are.
* sore throat that comes on fast
* hurts when you swallow
* fever (101°+)
You could use a rapid Strep Test for $80 for 25 strips

What about bronchitis? S/S are.
* cough
* fever <(101°)
* chest pain
* usually after a upper respiratory infection, flu, chest cold
* whistling noise {wheezing} usually after exertion
* hoarseness

Pneumonia S/S are:) .
* fever usually over (101°)
* cough and or productive cough with rusty, brown, yellow/green, or blood tinged mucus
* nausea/vomiting
* diarrhea
* shortness of breath
* fatigue and weakness
* may hear a wheezing that sounds wet {rhonchi}

Folks get some good education and or good books
No SOF MEDIC would go into the field with out several books, some of these books are.

* Special Operations Force Medical Handbook
* The San Ford Guide To Antimicrobial Therapy
* AHA Cardiac Algorithms
Please don't get me wrong they don't hump these on every trip to the field. However bet your butt they have them back at base.

Just some food for thought. There is more to drugs than just having them.
 

Silent Bob

God Like
Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2014
Messages
1,629
Reaction score
1,270
Location
Texas
have had a couple of UTIs, there didn't seem to be any need to test for it. it was painfully obvious and precisely located.
Bruce, great discussion, however, Doc Pops was reflecting treatments for those who routinely are not involved in medicine and have stockpiled whatever antibiotics they have hoarded as part of their preps. We have a great discussion about this sort of issue with several physicians, dentist, nurses and other medical authorities in a round table discussion at a Texas Medical Prep alliance. Some of us are from the field side, where we sometimes have to rule more cautiously. As I state to my non-medical folks in my group...."Do No Harm". So I typically have inside my larger clinical response kit, the UTI test strips. They are pretty cheap and while just a quantitative test will give me a good idea of the protein/count that I am dealing with in a field situation. Additionally, since I am a big advocate of making most of my group hydrate really well to prevent heat related injuries, it also aids in the recovery of UTI's.

As for follow-up testing, my gut rule is to air on caution in field treatment. According to CDC treatment guidelines it is true that healthy men and women not experiencing a recurrent UTI do not require a follow-up exam, it does recommend that pregnant women should have a repeat urine culture one to two weeks after treatment has ended to make sure the bacteria are no longer in the urine (this could preclude problem with a growing fetus). Also having treated UTI's both clinically and in the field, I approach the rules a bit differently, clinically, I wouldn't require it for a healthy male or female (using CDC guidelines), but in a field sense, where their is little in the way of long-term supportive health care or hospitalization, I rule on doing a midstream or full ward test, after completion of treatment to prevent any kidney complications (which may already be stressed due to dehydration, hygiene conditions, etc). Just my thoughts, but I've had a few times that young health airman, soldiers and Marines have had issues following completion of a course while in the field. In some cases, I had to evac them to the next echelon of military medical care. If you apply the same theory after SHTF, you will not have the supportive care or hospitalization routinely seen in modern medicine.

Also on top of all the books Doc Pops recommends, I also recommend one that was recently produced.

AAOS 68W Advanced Field Craft: Combat Medic Skills

Additionally: Alternative treatment methods using herbal medicines.
Drug alternatives James Balch, Mark Stengler and Robin Young Balch

Enjoyed your thoughts.
 

doc pops

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
199
Reaction score
123
Location
Florida
te="bruceb, post: 50177, member: 2815"]have had a couple of UTIs, there didn't seem to be any need to test for it. it was painfully obvious and precisely located.[/quote]
Actully there is a reason to test and have the test kits on hand. First in a shtf scenario hygiene is going to be top priority and be lacking. Second antibiotics are going to be precious commodity. Third if let's say you only have Cipro which is what most UTIs are taken care of, and you treat every infection with it your bodies bugs WILL build up a resistance and then you may as well take ASA aspirin.

Now back to the test kits, most test kits will let you know if you have one of two types of infection's "LEUKOCYTES & NITRIE" , which are what most OTCs test kits cover. Your Dr, will do a culture that takes about 72 hours, and this will be gram specific. Which is easy if you have the tools and stains.

This is better because you will be able to target gram positive and gram negative.

There are some thoughts to think about and you may want several broad spectrum antibiotics not just one! Use them sparingly but use them. Now is the time to do your research and learning.

Good luck, be safe, and God bless!
 

Silent Bob

God Like
Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2014
Messages
1,629
Reaction score
1,270
Location
Texas
te="bruceb, post: 50177, member: 2815"]have had a couple of UTIs, there didn't seem to be any need to test for it. it was painfully obvious and precisely located.
Actully there is a reason to test and have the test kits on hand. First in a shtf scenario hygiene is going to be top priority and be lacking. Second antibiotics are going to be precious commodity. Third if let's say you only have Cipro which is what most UTIs are taken care of, and you treat every infection with it your bodies bugs WILL build up a resistance and then you may as well take ASA aspirin.

Now back to the test kits, most test kits will let you know if you have one of two types of infection's "LEUKOCYTES & NITRIE" , which are what most OTCs test kits cover. Your Dr, will do a culture that takes about 72 hours, and this will be gram specific. Which is easy if you have the tools and stains.

This is better because you will be able to target gram positive and gram negative.

There are some thoughts to think about and you may want several broad spectrum antibiotics not just one! Use them sparingly but use them. Now is the time to do your research and learning.

Good luck, be safe, and God bless![/quote]


Bulls Eye, Doc Pops, 100% on the mark. One of the first our group of nurses and I preach when we teach about SHTF medical survival 101. Hygiene, we cover everything and that includes the time tested "cat hole", when your on patrol. We talk about the need for good ole hand washing with a bar of soap, trying to stay away from those lovely liquid antibacterial soaps...not that your going to start finding them on Walmart shelves because big soap companies are reversing their ideas via CDC recommendations.

Since we have a good group of medical staff on the team that includes a group of nurses, one a nurse practitioner, I will serve as the standin-lab guy. I've got a good size kit built around an autoclave, an old electron microscope, a few other older microscopes, a food-water lab kit (made in France, found that it has better shelf life on some of the reagents, a old fashion gram stain kit, field sampling kit, a propane bunson burner, dry reconstituted augar, VDRL rotator, Brittany and a old thermal cycler. My only problem I can see will be that the could be a problem would be location, thought about a small conex. Big issue would be positive control samples of strains that you simply don't see out of a working laboratory.

As for broad spectrum antibiotics...your right, the more the better, provided the tests are conclusive that they will work against that bacteria. Loved your inputs...thanks, keeps me on my toes.
 

scottw6srf

New Member
Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Messages
15
Reaction score
9
So I see a lot of talk about antimicrobials// antibiotics and where to find them.
So now you/we have them how and when do they get used? Do you know which drug, how, when, how much/ length of course, 1, 2,3, or 4 times a day, for how many days. What about anaphylaxis, this could kill the person or love one your trying to help. Is this a virius or a bacterial infection if medical, or trauma bacterial from an infected wound, then is it gran negative or gram positive. If from trauma can we clean and or debris the wound and use honey and keep the wound in an anaerobic state to promote healing ! ? Could we use maggots the do the work for us? When maggots get in a wound they only eat the dead flesh, there excretion has antibodies and helps the wound heal faster. Researchers have been working with the chronic wounds from diabetes patients. The FDA now has medical maggots, why because of MERSA, why do we have MERSA? Because as a whole our society has used antibiotics to liberally to combat every thing sort of like the shotgun on a squirrel, when a .22 would work. Enough of the rumblings.

So you think someone has an UTI! How can you tell? No pain! Dark strong smelling urine. Could this be from dehydration. They may have cloudy urine, more likely, an UTI, also could be strong smell. Some people when they have an UTI become altered. Here are the common signs and symptoms
* burns when you urinate
* feel like you have to urinate often, but only a little comes out
* belly feels tender and heave
* urine cloudy and or smells bed
* pain under ribs in back on one side, this is where your kidneys are
* fever chills
* nausea and vomiting.
You also could have a $10.00, UTI test strip kit, 3 strips

What about, Strep Throat? S/S are.
* sore throat that comes on fast
* hurts when you swallow
* fever (101°+)
You could use a rapid Strep Test for $80 for 25 strips

What about bronchitis? S/S are.
* cough
* fever <(101°)
* chest pain
* usually after a upper respiratory infection, flu, chest cold
* whistling noise {wheezing} usually after exertion
* hoarseness

Pneumonia S/S are:) .
* fever usually over (101°)
* cough and or productive cough with rusty, brown, yellow/green, or blood tinged mucus
* nausea/vomiting
* diarrhea
* shortness of breath
* fatigue and weakness
* may hear a wheezing that sounds wet {rhonchi}

Folks get some good education and or good books
No SOF MEDIC would go into the field with out several books, some of these books are.

* Special Operations Force Medical Handbook
* The San Ford Guide To Antimicrobial Therapy
* AHA Cardiac Algorithms
Please don't get me wrong they don't hump these on every trip to the field. However bet your butt they have them back at base.

Just some food for thought. There is more to drugs than just having them.
Awesome!!!!
 

Latest posts

Top