A good read about U.S. police becoming militarized

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Roninsensei

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I wanna fact check everything on this. It's written in a way to make you think that everything he's saying is true. I don't like the anti-police tone in it then they quickly hide them by saying "some cops are good".. It's the policy makers that are to blame here not the boots on the ground....
 

Maverick

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The biggest problem with Law Enforcement is with the training not that they have Military surplus equipment, on one hand LEOs are spending too much time learning to be PC (creating hesitated reaction) instead of firearm proficiency on the other hand they are trained (un-officially) not to trust anyone creating a hair trigger reaction, we have the media and community organizers (agitators) creating this hatred re-enforcing 'trust no one' adding to the hair trigger mentality. We don't have community policing nor community interaction anymore, Law Enforcement have become reactionary not pro-active, this is strictly the result of training nothing more. Training and protocol needs to change not equipment.

There is 365 million people in this Country, we have roughly 1.2m LEOs we get 4 or 5 bad ones a year that make it on the 5 o-clock news so that makes the 1m+ officers bad BS!. I'm really tired of LEOs being attacked from all sides and being blamed for everything bad, the damn communities share 99% of the blame!
 
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Maverick

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The biggest thing that pisses me off the most is the media and the community agitators protecting the street thug(s) such is the case in ferguson while laying blame on a good cop destroying his life.

I'm not overly happy about the militarization but in the end, it's the training nothing more. It's like every damn online rag and MSM have jumped on the info wars bandwagon, jones is no different than the sharptons/jacksons of the world, nothing more than agitators that deserve no quarters.

I make no apology for my rant(s).
 

Silent Earth

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Militarisation !!!! Just you bloody well wait until your Muslim population exceeds 5% THEN Sir THEN you will be bloody glad of Paramil cops in armoured cars.

I always am baffled by nice Americans who object to their police having the same sort of weapons and vehicles many citizens can have.
 

Joe SA

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Militarisation !!!! Just you bloody well wait until your Muslim population exceeds 5% THEN Sir THEN you will be bloody glad of Paramil cops in armoured cars.

I always am baffled by nice Americans who object to their police having the same sort of weapons and vehicles many citizens can have.
The question might become would those Paramil cops be enforcing the will of the 5% on the 95% or the other way round. As an ex cop i will always believe that the function of the police is to maintain law and order, crime prevention and investigation. My belief is if you have civil unrest, riots use the military or create a specialized military section to deal with riotors.
 

Silent Bob

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Very well stated Joe SA! I don't think my four neighbors, one that is a member of the local SWAT, believes that they are paramilitary. Last I checked, even my friends who are off duty providing the deterrence for another Littleton or Sandy Creek, don't think that way, they are simple guys trying to make a living on really crappy pay. Short of getting on the city owned training range to keep their proficiency up, it is sad to think that many have to get their own crap. Lets face it, in my town, the new officers for the most part drive those crappy Crown Vic's. Most wade into more paperwork than I do, on any given day, even if it is on a computer, but still they have to get it done, because lord knows that Texas has one large statutes book, let Joe SA tell you about that one. Thank god it is on computer.

Now, I am not going to discount the fact that said leadership in this town, will not turn down a free government armored vehicle, they have a few HMMVW's and even a mine resistant vehicle, but why should they not apply for them, it was Obama who let the DMRO guys sell them in the first place, only after the Ferguson fiasco, did Obama begin thinking wow, we have these military wanna-be's. I still believe officer safety is paramount, not because the folks nearby are people I know, but because they place their lives each and every day on the line to keep us safe. I know some of you are saying, Silent Bob, your some (Female Anatomy 101)...well think again, my wife is more concerned about the other guy behind the door than she is for my own safety.

For those who are opponents toward mil vehicles for our police agencies, think about this, many of the agencies got a load of d-mil'd, HMMVW. Ever drive one, they drive like pigs down a highway, so much so that typically the Army would send a cutvee (GMC) or pickup to lead the vehicle convoys down America's highways during deployments to ports. These HMMVW's are not the pampered ones that Hummer sold to those wealthy folks that want them as a "hey, look at me", those have air-conditioning and all the creature comforts. Also anyone who knows that when we drove them in Iraq and the Stan and took rounds, its like placing a rock in a coke can and shaking it around, everything else is fair game. They look cool to the locals, but for hardened folks, they are death traps. Now the MRAP, that is a whole nother beasty...the MAXX or Cougar, well, those are bloody monsters, I'd love to own one, and for that fact, I'd love to get my fat butt in the engine block and work on them.

My other thought is this, I always love it when some media outlet starts comparing our LE as some Neo-Nazi regime, when really, these guys are no different then the rest of us, just we are not sworn to uphold the law and they do. So if a county sheriff or city PD gets some MRAP from DRMO consignment, guess what, those guys are going to ride quite nicely to a shoot out and when and if their is a riot, locals might want to think twice before they throw a bottle full of gas at them, they ain't hurting the guys inside and sure enough those law breakers, hope they get burned throwing them. By the way, if SHTF, three of my neighbors will be pulling up stakes with my family anyway, so watch how many homes and business will burn then.
 

Joe SA

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Very well stated Joe SA! I don't think my four neighbors, one that is a member of the local SWAT, believes that they are paramilitary. Last I checked, even my friends who are off duty providing the deterrence for another Littleton or Sandy Creek, don't think that way, they are simple guys trying to make a living on really crappy pay. Short of getting on the city owned training range to keep their proficiency up, it is sad to think that many have to get their own crap. Lets face it, in my town, the new officers for the most part drive those crappy Crown Vic's. Most wade into more paperwork than I do, on any given day, even if it is on a computer, but still they have to get it done, because lord knows that Texas has one large statutes book, let Joe SA tell you about that one. Thank god it is on computer.

Now, I am not going to discount the fact that said leadership in this town, will not turn down a free government armored vehicle, they have a few HMMVW's and even a mine resistant vehicle, but why should they not apply for them, it was Obama who let the DMRO guys sell them in the first place, only after the Ferguson fiasco, did Obama begin thinking wow, we have these military wanna-be's. I still believe officer safety is paramount, not because the folks nearby are people I know, but because they place their lives each and every day on the line to keep us safe. I know some of you are saying, Silent Bob, your some (Female Anatomy 101)...well think again, my wife is more concerned about the other guy behind the door than she is for my own safety.

For those who are opponents toward mil vehicles for our police agencies, think about this, many of the agencies got a load of d-mil'd, HMMVW. Ever drive one, they drive like pigs down a highway, so much so that typically the Army would send a cutvee (GMC) or pickup to lead the vehicle convoys down America's highways during deployments to ports. These HMMVW's are not the pampered ones that Hummer sold to those wealthy folks that want them as a "hey, look at me", those have air-conditioning and all the creature comforts. Also anyone who knows that when we drove them in Iraq and the Stan and took rounds, its like placing a rock in a coke can and shaking it around, everything else is fair game. They look cool to the locals, but for hardened folks, they are death traps. Now the MRAP, that is a whole nother beasty...the MAXX or Cougar, well, those are bloody monsters, I'd love to own one, and for that fact, I'd love to get my fat butt in the engine block and work on them.

My other thought is this, I always love it when some media outlet starts comparing our LE as some Neo-Nazi regime, when really, these guys are no different then the rest of us, just we are not sworn to uphold the law and they do. So if a county sheriff or city PD gets some MRAP from DRMO consignment, guess what, those guys are going to ride quite nicely to a shoot out and when and if their is a riot, locals might want to think twice before they throw a bottle full of gas at them, they ain't hurting the guys inside and sure enough those law breakers, hope they get burned throwing them. By the way, if SHTF, three of my neighbors will be pulling up stakes with my family anyway, so watch how many homes and business will burn then.
I would not consider SWAT, paramil either they are the same as our Task Force Members, main function and porpose for these units are to get to the difficult criminals be it circumstance or notirioty. They are surgical teams for very specific functions. On the other hand you have Riot Police which is a very blunt object, they hammer anything thats out of place in any given situation they are placed in. When these members are given more equipment than what is needed to fullfil their duty, that raises concerns with me, 1. Someone somewhere is making a lot of money 2. What is the agenda. (In the public arena when you buy something and it is not used, too many questions will be asked.)
 

Silent Bob

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Joe SA,

Can't tell you how much waste I saw during the wars. In Kosovo, I saw tons of toilet paper that was suppose to go forward to combat troops, sit on a tarmac, literally uncovered, when I addressed why it was sitting there, some crew chief said, it was on the manifest to be unloaded where it was and the stuff was not bagged according to Tech Orders...which require the marshalling location to bag it...surprised no crew chief, didn't tag it, but it left Rhein Main as it was, so once on the ground, the Air Force didn't move it. You and I both know what good old T.P. does when wet. In the Stan, you name it, stuff I saw would fill my fiscal year equipment list. We were one of the first to get the new medical stuff that hadn't even been approved by FDA, rushed to the field, so we could save lives, but if you went forward to some of the places where I rotated in/out of, the 18 Delta's or green side Navy Corpsman, they would be lucky to have some of the crap that was sitting at the tarmac. I hate to admit to the taxpayers like you Joe that much of my stuff was misplaced, when I left the field. I sure hope some of the crap did some good, and as it was, I'd just go back and refill my gear bag, no questions asked by my LogDogs. I have to admit, Iraq was a whole bloody mess, my wife would even send me stuff, when she could find it online. Good little lady of mine, even if she rags on me, about how bad my spine is or the fact that I hobble out of bed in the morning.

As for money....well my late father use to say, advancement in medicine depended on a good long war, correlates to the same in advancement in warfare material too...if their was a need for it, they would develop it and or field test it on us Guinea pigs. Where their is a war, people are going to see profit. So when you mention, someone money, its the root of today's evil. I'd like to think though that body armor was a direct result of casualties from Vietnam and hence why law enforcement/military have body armor today. I often wonder what if my cousin and uncle had them in Vietnam, might their names not be on the Vietnam memorial. I know that my dad would not have had a sucking chest wound and a simple purple medal for his causes either.

As for the commercialization of it all, its simple....can you say America!
 

tc556guy

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Since that's not an option, Joe, it falls back on the police
Even relying on current military means the population is at risk for days til the military gets boots on the ground.
That doesn't even bring up the potential for heavily armed terrorist types who need to be met with appropriate force, equipment and tactics first by local LE
 

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