100% Power Outage in Puerto Rico

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and to top it off..because of their location n all.they have no means of storm shelters and all...
 
SE,

Of course they can afford it! Didn't you hear, they've already asked Trump to open my wallet to pay for everything for them....
 
I wish them well down there. At least in fla and Houston there are a lot more resources to get things back up and running. It will be a long time before they get power and other infrastructure restored.
 
Brent S said:
I have a good friend that was going there this Friday for vacation. They were going to have a family reunion there. Storm have no consideration or manners.
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Week before last (right before Irma) my daughter had a week vacation booked for The Dominican Republic. She didn't know anything was up until she got notification that her flight was cancelled. She got the tickets changed to Cancun without any problem (and spent a week sandwiched between Katia and Irma), but getting a refund on the AirBnB was a different story.
 
Silent Earth said:
Aye and its power company is already bankrupt, I dont think they can afford any repairs.
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If they weren't before, they are now:
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/21/pue...ot-the-same-island-after-hurricane-maria.html
Gonzalez-Colon said Puerto Rico needs help re-establishing power. "One of the problems that we've got is once the power is out there water pumps are not working."

Even before the storms though, the electric grid was crumbling. Many believe it'll take weeks, if not months, to restore power.

Puerto Rico's recovery could be complicated by its mounting debts. Both the island's government and the public utility there have filed for bankruptcy protection.
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Brent S said:
I wish them well down there. At least in fla and Houston there are a lot more resources to get things back up and running. It will be a long time before they get power and other infrastructure restored.
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FEMA has a very large warehouse located in Puerto Rico as one of it's strategic locations, they also have several Military bases including 7000 National Guardsman with a few Military air strips and Naval ports. Ships are loading up in Jacksonville with poles and grid backups to restore power to critical infrastructure, report is the ships will be leaving in a couple of days.
 
I wonder how they're going to pay for all that help. I thought PR was about to default on their debt obligations. Oh wait I forget, the good ol US taxpayers will bail them out and ship boat loads of US tax dollars down there.
 
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Arcticdude said:
I wonder how they're going to pay for all that help. I thought PR was about to default on their debt obligations. Oh wait I forget, the good ol US taxpayers will bail them out and ship boat loads US tax dollars down there.
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Paperwork from June of this year is being presented to Congress to request Puerto Rico become the 51st State, once Congress excepts the package for review, it will request another vote from Puerto Rico, the debate could last 2 to 3 years in Congress. If Puerto Rico becomes a State, it's debt would be erased by the US Federal Government (meaning us tax payers)

In 2016 the Federal Government refused to bail out Puerto Rico, now Puerto Rico wants Statehood... got to love the sucker punch dance :-/
 
Maverick said:
Paperwork from June of this year is being presented to Congress to request Puerto Rico become the 51st State, once Congress excepts the package for review, it will request another vote from Puerto Rico, the debate could last 2 to 3 years in Congress. If Puerto Rico becomes a State, it's debt would be erased by the US Federal Government (meaning us tax payers)

In 2016 the Federal Government refused to bail out Puerto Rico, now Puerto Rico wants Statehood... got to love the sucker punch dance :-/
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As usual the US tax payer gets stuck with the bill.
 
Sometimes "discussion transitions" make me laugh.

This thread started talking about power outage across PR. And it has evolved into money-outage across PR. Which is worse!

On the good side, my guess is that Trump won't bail them out. Sure, he will send down a few boats of supplies/etc. Call that humanitarian aid. And he will pat his own back over that (it's his nature). But I don't see him replacing their crumbled infrastructure that has collapsed not from the hurricane, but from decades of neglect. They made the mess, they can live in it.

They made the debt, they can still pay it (or default on it is more likely).
 
Maverick said:
FEMA has a very large warehouse located in Puerto Rico as one of it's strategic locations, they also have several Military bases including 7000 National Guardsman with a few Military air strips and Naval ports. Ships are loading up in Jacksonville with poles and grid backups to restore power to critical infrastructure, report is the ships will be leaving in a couple of days.
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Glad to hear the NG was already in place. The place took a hard hit.
 
Maverick said:
My understanding a dam is on the verge of collapsing, they are having issues alerting everyone below it, without power practically all don't have tv or radios to get the message, plus most of the roads isn't passable.
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I had heard of the dam showing a crack but hadn't even considered the effect of no power for communicating the warning. Without electricity we really are back in the stone ages.
 
I've been thinking about the Mexico City earthquake vs the Puerto Rico hurricane. Which is worse, which does more damage or deaths?

The early answer is clear. The earthquake killed more people (300-500 vs under 10), but the hurricane caused more damage.

But I wonder what the 'real' number of deaths from the hurricane will be. Yes, only a few died on the first day. But for example look at FL, how many elderly died in nursing homes? In PR, how many elderly will lack care & die from it? How many will drink or eat contaminated water/food causing death? How many do not get the medical care they could get in normal conditions and die? How many die in accidents cleaning up or attempting repairs?

These are all deaths that are never reported nor are the really possible to collect. Dozens? Possibly hundreds?

The same questions could be asked of the earthquake. I've already added the people trapped or unable to escape who died in the number above. But I don't think there will be much more to add to those numbers.

And looking at infrastructure, everything is destroyed by a hurricane. Power lines, fuel storage, roads, homes, everything. The quake is much less damaging. It knocked a few buildings down & some poles & such, but only a fraction compared to the water.

So comparing the two, my opinion is that the hurricane is significantly worse. Of course this is comparing a cat 5 vs a 7.1 quake. It is interesting to compare/contrast.
 
TexasFreedom said:
I've been thinking about the Mexico City earthquake vs the Puerto Rico hurricane. Which is worse, which does more damage or deaths?

The early answer is clear. The earthquake killed more people (300-500 vs under 10), but the hurricane caused more damage.

But I wonder what the 'real' number of deaths from the hurricane will be. Yes, only a few died on the first day. But for example look at FL, how many elderly died in nursing homes? In PR, how many elderly will lack care & die from it? How many will drink or eat contaminated water/food causing death? How many do not get the medical care they could get in normal conditions and die? How many die in accidents cleaning up or attempting repairs?

These are all deaths that are never reported nor are the really possible to collect. Dozens? Possibly hundreds?

The same questions could be asked of the earthquake. I've already added the people trapped or unable to escape who died in the number above. But I don't think there will be much more to add to those numbers.

And looking at infrastructure, everything is destroyed by a hurricane. Power lines, fuel storage, roads, homes, everything. The quake is much less damaging. It knocked a few buildings down & some poles & such, but only a fraction compared to the water.

So comparing the two, my opinion is that the hurricane is significantly worse. Of course this is comparing a cat 5 vs a 7.1 quake. It is interesting to compare/contrast.
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Though if you count the quake Japan 2011 with both quake damage and tsunami damage in terms of death and destruction, quakes with tsunamis kill more people than hurricanes.
 
Maverick said:
Though if you count the quake Japan 2011 with both quake damage and tsunami damage in terms of death and destruction, quakes with tsunamis kill more people than hurricanes.
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Dont forget about the big quake/tsunami of 12/2004, over 300k deaths, definatly cause more deaths than hurricanes
 
Back in 1700 their were an earthquake off Washington State known as the 1700 Cascadia earthquake estimated to be a 9.2 (due to hit again we call the big one) the tsunami wiped everything out on the Washington coast 2.5 miles in killing everything below 75 feet, this same tsunami hit Japans eastern side wiping out villages over a mile in bellow 66 feet. Imagine that same quake today, Washington tsunami warning would only be 5 minutes to evac. It is estimated from the States emergency planers, FEMA and the USGS that 1ok people would die from the quake alone, they can't even come to a number for the tsunami casualties in this State alone, now add the US Western coastal areas from Alaska to California not counting Japan, an Cascadia earthquake scares Japan enough they have full time seismologist stationed here.

Lets not mention the tsunami would reverse the Columbia river flooding every low land 80 miles up stream, that includes Vancouver (washington) Portland up to the Bonneville dam.
 
Maverick said:
Back in 1700 their were an earthquake off Washington State known as the 1700 Cascadia earthquake estimated to be a 9.2 (due to hit again we call the big one) the tsunami wiped everything out on the Washington coast 2.5 miles in killing everything below 75 feet, this same tsunami hit Japans eastern side wiping out villages over a mile in bellow 66 feet. Imagine that same quake today, Washington tsunami warning would only be 5 minutes to evac. It is estimated from the States emergency planers, FEMA and the USGS that 1ok people would die from the quake alone, they can't even come to a number for the tsunami casualties in this State alone, now add the US Western coastal areas from Alaska to California not counting Japan, an Cascadia earthquake scares Japan enough they have full time seismologist stationed here.

Lets not mention the tsunami would reverse the Columbia river flooding every low land 80 miles up stream, that includes Vancouver (washington) Portland up to the Bonneville dam.
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It still surprises me how unprepared people are for natural disasters. I'm not just talking about prepping with a bug out bag and some food stores either. When buying a house, the biggest expense most will ever purchase, why not do a little research? Like looking at a flood plain map, or google what kinds of events took place in that area over the last few hundred years and how overdue is the expected next one? Something like a flood zone can be countered by building on stilts, or some reinforcing in hurricane country. There can always be unexpected things in life, but a lot of these natural disasters shouldn't be a surprise. Anyone who doesn't think New Orleans is going to flood again or that Florida isn't going to get hit by another big storm is blind.
 
Brent S said:
It still surprises me how unprepared people are for natural disasters. I'm not just talking about prepping with a bug out bag and some food stores either. When buying a house, the biggest expense most will ever purchase, why not do a little research? Like looking at a flood plain map, or google what kinds of events took place in that area over the last few hundred years and how overdue is the expected next one? Something like a flood zone can be countered by building on stilts, or some reinforcing in hurricane country. There can always be unexpected things in life, but a lot of these natural disasters shouldn't be a surprise. Anyone who doesn't think New Orleans is going to flood again or that Florida isn't going to get hit by another big storm is blind.
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How many events like Harvey, Irma and Maria does it take? No one learned from Andrew Katrina and Sandy. Apparently events like these don't happen enough, people/local government seem not to remember these events beyond 30 days once power is restored and streets cleaned up (being sarcastic)
 
Brent,

When you buy a house, you find out then and there if it's in a flood plain (assuming you get a mortgage). No need to research it. Your bank may require that you get flood insurance.

But note that the majority of homes that flooded in Houston were not in the 100 year flood plain. That's what most people think about: 500 or 1000 year flood plains are far beyond their life span. And things like water reservoirs releasing water, water pump failures, etc, are things that are really hard to anticipate.

In reality, if people really optimized to reduce risks, nobody would live anywhere in Florida. Huge parts of CA would be vacant. I'd wager that the homes of 25% of the people in the world would need to be vacated. Sorry, risk is part of life. Your life is a wager you take every day in several ways, and one day within 120 years you will lose. If every moment was focused on reducing that risk then you'd never enjoy life. So worry not. Don't be stupid, but use your brain & don't worry.
 
Maverick said:
How many events like Harvey, Irma and Maria does it take? No one learned from Andrew Katrina and Sandy. Apparently events like these don't happen enough, people/local government seem not to remember these events beyond 30 days once power is restored and streets cleaned up (being sarcastic)
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People really do have a short attention span.
 
Brent S said:
People really do have a short attention span.
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Yup.

For many years we vacationed every summer at a rented beach house in Perdido Beach, Alabama. Perdido Beach is pretty well protected because in between Perdido Beach and the gulf, there is Innerarity Point, Ono Island, and Perdido Key, acting like a triple layer of barrier islands. Some damage in a couple of hurricanes, but nothing destroyed other than wooden piers. We watched things go up on Perdido Key (directly on the gulf), and then get blown down, and then a few years later go up again after the memory of things getting blown away fades.

And we just shook our heads.
 
Being in Central FL, and far inland, by the time any storm hits us, it should just be Cat 2 or 1.... Which is why we were all so terrified when the projections said hitting us at Cat 4! Thank goodness they were wrong. We saw Cat 2 conditions only (bordering on Cat 3), as the eyewall went over. Was amazing to watch on radar as it did. In a non-SHTF scenario, I can't say enough how important cell phones are.
 
Looks like many people in Puerto Rico will be without power until next year some time:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/without-power-until-next-year-puerto-ricans-are-leavingmaybe-forever

VIEQUES, Puerto Rico—Joe and Maria Bernard cook in the dark over a gas stove outside their small hotel, the Tropical Guest House. “The days feel shorter,” says Maria, “we just have 12 hours of daylight to get everything done.”

When it gets dark, the entire island of Vieques is dark.

This is life on the world-renowned tourist island. And it’s going to be life for at least the next six to eight months, if not longer, before electricity is restored here.
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Only 8 percent of Puerto Rico’s electricity has been restored as of Sunday, and the old grid is irreparable in many places, aside some quick fixes.
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“We had a plan to modernize our grid before Maria, which involved private companies, we called it PREPA 2.0. We were going to present at a Caribbean summit,” Ricardo Ramos, the head of Puerto Rico’s electric power utility, PREPA, explains. “After Maria, we reached out, and those companies demanded $25 million down payment upfront. We didn’t have the money.”

Without a massive infusion of federal aid, Puerto Rico will only be able to temporarily fix the cracks but not overhaul the whole system. And with no reserves—the island filed for bankruptcy last May, unable to meet its obligations on a $77 billion external debt—it’s like borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. It’s status as a commonwealth deprives it of the customary waivers and block grants other hard hit areas like Texas and Florida received after their hurricanes.
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I'm still a bit surprised how LITTLE coverage this gets in the news.

I mean, though not a state, Puerto Rico is US folks, as in us, and as in the US. It is part of America. But we are (for some reason) being blinded by what's truly going on there.

It's going to take a MASSIVE infusion of federal funds, not to just supply emergency supplies, but to completely rebuild their infrastructure. Why isn't this being more talked about?

Instead, we are inundated by stupid tweets, or whether some millionaires kneel on a field. And while the LV shooting is a genuine tragedy that certainly deserves coverage and discussion....Puerto Rico is likewise worthy of some press attention, but isn't getting it.
 
I don't envy the people down there. Without power it's like going back 100 yrs in time. Camping is great for a few days, but I've really gotten accustomed to electricity, toilets and running water and restaurants.
 
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