What if you're locked up?

[Billy Roper]

If certain anti-first amendment, gun control, or anti-hoarding regulations are enacted in the future, under crisis scenarios, some of us might face arrest, and if we don't successfully resist or evade capture, imprisonment. With that in mind, I began to write my most recent book, which has the working title "General Population", focusing on what life is really like inside prisons today, and what it might become as society collapses on the outside. I've almost finished writing Chapter Seven, at this point. The second half of the novel explores what conditions are and how things develop in the nation afterwards, written as if Rawles had a scrotum. When it's finished, it'll be available HERE, some time this fall:

http://www.amazon.com/Billy-Roper/e...QC39C0_ntt_srch_lnk_12?qid=1466082265&sr=1-12

 

[Joe SA]

Probably plan and try to escape.

 

[Gazrok]

Depending on the SHTF scenario, would most likely result in a prison riot. Without power, you lose the mag-locks. You lose the lights and a lot of communication channels, which then puts the guards at a disadvantage. Basically, if the grid goes, so does the idea of prisons.

 

[Silent Earth]

Under OUR War laws and Emergency powers act many serious criminals would be shot and the none serious ones used to bury the dead.

 

[Maverick]

Maybe prisons are just as dangerous as nuclear reactors in a grid down situation... just saying

 

[Billy Roper]

In my research, I found that all prisons have backup emergency power generators on site, but of course the supply of fuel to operate them would be limited, as would the security of that fuel and the generators themselves. I also discovered that in the case of a power failure, the prisons would lock down closed, rather than open. In my narrative, guards begin to stop showing up for work, deliveries run late or don't come at all, and eventually "nonviolent" prisoners and those near their scheduled release dates are let loose. Not to give away the plot, but the protagonist and others DO escape, with some help.

 

[Gazrok]

Makes sense. Just don't make it TOO similar to the Walking Dead narrative when they were in the prison.
I did mean once the generators run dry, because I can't believe it would be more than 48 hours worth of fuel for them.

I also have to think that without the prospect of eventually going back to normal life on the outside, some otherwise nonviolent prisoners would be more violent. I know I'd be a calculating and cruel sonofabitch to get out of there. Nothing to lose, so.....

 

[Billy Roper]

Well, yeah, because you'd be desperate, it'd literally be a life and death struggle. I also thought of The Walking Dead while writing that part, but really now that the first five chapters are over, it's past the prison period of the book, but I've heard from some prisoner's families that there are actually gas lines into cells so that they can euthanize prisoners rather than release them, if it came down to it. That may be just paranoia or urban legend, but the fact that it's a story out there is telling.

 

[Brent S]

Well, yeah, because you'd be desperate, it'd literally be a life and death struggle. I also thought of The Walking Dead while writing that part, but really now that the first five chapters are over, it's past the prison period of the book, but I've heard from some prisoner's families that there are actually gas lines into cells so that they can euthanize prisoners rather than release them, if it came down to it. That may be just paranoia or urban legend, but the fact that it's a story out there is telling.

I remember reading a story ages ago where a prison guard decided to let the prisoners go, all but one. The guy was so evil the guard decided to shoot him. I think the book may have been lucifers hammer, a story about a comet slamming into the earth and its effects. I doubt that there are gas lines in any us prisons, but am not sure that in the worst cases it would be a bad idea. I still can't believe we keep people that are so bad alive for decades. It's inhumane on the prisoner, it's really really expensive, and is just stupid. If you're so bad that you need to be locked up for the rest of your life, sorry game over.

 

[Gazrok]

I've heard from some prisoner's families that there are actually gas lines into cells so that they can euthanize prisoners rather than release them, if it came down to it.

Since prisons do EVERYTHING on the cheap, I'd have to call BS on that one. Simply put, they'd never spend the money on it. Maybe if it was a converted asylum from a long time ago, but otherwise...nah....

 

[Haliboy]

I dont' want a fictional book, rather I'd like to know what happens to innocent non violent folks on the inside. Some people are in their for things no sane person would consider a crime: gun ownership, taxes, etc.

 

[Billy Roper]

It's a fictional book, but I interviewed dozens of current prisoners when writing it, to combine their anecdotes and stories of real experiences inside. "General Population" is available on Amazon for less than a carton of smokes.

 

[TexasFreedom]

Books are always based on unlikely events. If a book is too realistic, it's either a documentary or nobody will read it. So make it interesting!

I spent a couple of years recently spending about 10 hours a week in a low security prison (as a volunteer, not an inmate!).

Most prisons are a designated security level building or site-wide. And every prison has some guards who are massive jerks. Those guys will have no issue putting a bullet in every inmate. First, in a grid-down scenario every inmate will go into lockdown. Many prisons keep mediocre maintenance (other than high-dollar federal prisons), I'm not sure they'll have full fuel tanks to run a generator 48 hours. And prisons pay horrible salaries. As soon as the guards realize the extent of the disaster, they're out the door to protect their family. Leave the prisoners to starve in their cells. There aren't many bleeding heart liberal guards. But an interesting side detail: state run versus private run prisons. State run prisons will likely get guards to stick around longer while private-run prisons pay lower salaries & their guards will have much less loyalty to the prison.

Many low-security inmates are locked up for petty crimes: drugs, theft, etc. But you'd be shocked at how many murderers and rapists are in the lowest security prisons. Shocked. The guards will have a hard choice because they often live just blocks from the prison: release prisoners knowing that their family could be at risk, not release them knowing that another guard could release them and they'd be angry with him, or kill the inmates. I don't think most prisons have thousands of rounds of ammo.

I think it will boil down to this: do the guards fear the inmates roaming their neighborhood?

Oh, and did I mention that low security prisons have LOTS of glass that is easily broken? Maybe a little chicken wire in them. And once the first inmates are out of their cells, the master key will get everyone out.

Of course none of this takes into account local resident preppers who wouldn't mind spending a couple thousand rounds taking out all the inmates once the guards thin out. That sure would put a twist in the possibilities!

 

[lonewolf]

British prisons are all undermanned, they cant get the staff, a riot would see the guards over powered and the inmates in control of the keys and access to open the locks.

 

[Billy Roper]

I continue to correspond with about twenty prisoners in different lock-ups around the country. Some are short-timers and others are in for Buck Rogers stretches. Some of them I'd try to help get free if SHTF, and other people in there, as Texas Freedom said, the local militia might be better off just liquidating, rather than releasing.

 

[lonewolf]

as far as criminals are concerned I've always been of the thought" lock them up and throw away the key", let them die in prison post SHTF we don't need their sort adding to the general panic.

 

[user 6493]

hmmmmmmmmm

 

[jeager]

Well, yeah, because you'd be desperate, it'd literally be a life and death struggle. I also thought of The Walking Dead while writing that part, but really now that the first five chapters are over, it's past the prison period of the book, but I've heard from some prisoner's families that there are actually gas lines into cells so that they can euthanize prisoners rather than release them, if it came down to it. That may be just paranoia or urban legend, but the fact that it's a story out there is telling.

Paranoia will destroy 'ya.
but I've heard from some prisoner's families that there are actually gas lines into cells so that they can euthanize prisoners rather than release them

^^^ totally ridiculous! Stupid. Ignorant....................

Ask me how I know.
22.5 years as a police officer and have been in EVERY penal institution in Ohio, some in W.Va
and Pa. including Federal prisons and NO there is no such plan to MURDER prisoners in the event of a TEOTWAWKI.
MOST humans doing serious time are NOT murderers.
Theft, drugs, burglaries, arson, robberies, vehicular homicide.....................................

Cheesh.
No one has a right to be wrong about FACTS.
Thanks.

 

[jeager]

as far as criminals are concerned I've always been of the thought" lock them up and throw away the key", let them die in prison post SHTF we don't need their sort adding to the general panic.

Really? Let people starve to death who didn't harm anyone, ever.
Most people in prison are not in the joint for killing or raping anyone.
I just happen to know these things having been in law enforcement over two decades.
Been there, done that.
Many of my former friends were ex convicts that learned a lesson and went on to become
stellar citizens.
"Judge not lest you be judged."
That said I ain't no fool either and would resort to any means necessary to protect mine, me,
OR you and yours.
It's what I've done all my adult life and it cost me dearly.
13 serious injuries, months in rehab, p.t.s.d, and associates that couldn't deal with
all the ugly and ate their gun!
r.i.p. friends.

 

[jeager]

I continue to correspond with about twenty prisoners in different lock-ups around the country. Some are short-timers and others are in for Buck Rogers stretches. Some of them I'd try to help get free if SHTF, and other people in there, as Texas Freedom said, the local militia might be better off just liquidating, rather than releasing.

Amen to that brother!
I totally understand.
My beset friends on the street were ex cons, drug dealers, prostitutes, ..............................

THOSE people saved my butt!
22.5 years as a white cop in a city 50% ethic.
Those people were there for me when no back up was even close!
That said I ain't stupid and am armed most all the time.
Legally.
Detective, shift commander, s.w.a.t leader, firearms trainer and a whole lot more!

 

[Maverick]

I don't believe their are any plans to kill prisoners in a TEOTWAWKI, I don't believe there are any plans at all in how to deal with prisoners in a total collapse. What does happen in such event? I guess we won't know until such a situation arises. Many of the prisons and jails are privately run, some are ran good some are corrupt, human nature will dictate the outcome. I just hope the hell I'm nowhere near or in a prison or jail when the crap falls apart.... Remember hurricane Katrina and the jails in New Orleans, they where abandoned in the beginning, no food no water no power no medical.

 

[jeager]

Well my home in N.E. Ohio is only 7 miles from a Federal Prison.
There have been escapes but all were captured in a relative short time.
Something about a guy hitch hiking in an orange jump suit with PRISONER
in 4" letters on the back.

IF prisoners get out of that prison by escape they aren't likely to hang around
the area very long.
When escapes do happen from prisons their is usually someone on the outside
to get the escapee as far from the area as possible.
In my case I'm PREPARED if some escaping miscreant stops by my place for some
nefarious intent.
BANG flop. Gene pool cleansed.

 

[lonewolf]

i dont want any convicts adding to the general melee during SHTF, as far as I am concerned they are all in prison for a reason and they can stay there.

 

[DrHenley]

LOL, Parchman Penitentiary may miss the SHTF all together. The Maximum Security prison in Mississippi has no walls, and is completely self sufficient. They grow their own food on 18,000 acres of Mississippi Delta farmland. 912 acres of vegetables, 97 acres of rice, 4,738 acres of soybeans. Last year they raised 1,152,786 pounds of vegetables. They make their own clothing, and manufacture their own furniture.

Hell, in the SHTF, they may have to build walls to keep people OUT

 

[lonewolf]

they used to have farms in prisons in the UK, I know for a fact Dartmoor prison had its own farm, had its own rock quarry too!! but they have closed both now and I don't know of any British prison that has a farm anymore. progress huh!!!

 

[jeager]

i dont want any convicts adding to the general melee during SHTF, as far as I am concerned they are all in prison for a reason and they can stay there.

Well said.
Recall recall MOST "people" (animals) are in prison for the long haul for doing
something(s) really unacceptable.
Unacceptable like RAPE, MURDER, ARMED ROBBERY, FELONIOUS ASSAULT.
They ain't choir boys folks.
Gobblins that get out of prison OFTEN return in under one year.
The rate of recidivism is: (going back to the iron hotel)
About 68 percent of 405,000 prisoners released in 30 states in 2005 were arrested for a new crime within three years of their release from prison, and 77 percent were arrested within five years, according to a report by the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) released Tuesday.
Understand that those that get out of prison and go back is ONLY A SMALL fraction of
those that continued to commit crimes.
Those that returned to crime got caught.
Many X-cons return to crime a whole lot smarter as they LEARN well from other
inmates how NOT to get caught.
Ask me how I am an expert on such things?
22.5 years as a cop in the mean streets. 13 serious injuries. Back broken 4 times.
9 months in rehab learning to walk again.
10 years as Detective in charge of investigations. Firearms instructor, S.W.A.T. team leader
shift commander, and much more.
I don't want no mo'!
Would I trust an ex con. No.
Not only no but Hell NO!

 

[Dalisa]

there's at most 4 armed guards watching over 1000 inmates in many a US federal prison. Those guards will just go home if shtf. The inmates will all escape in less than an hour. 4 guys can wrench loose a steel bunk bed in a few minutes. half an hour later, they'll have used that bunk to knock a hole in the concrete walls (if they are all locked down when shtf) All it takes is some mattresses and blankets tossed onto the razor wire and they can cross that double fence in seconds.

YOU are a felon and so is your mother. Just kissing someone, under the age of 18, is a felony in many states. So is that bootlegged music or file or software that you have. 15 million people in the US have felony convictions. If you kept everyone locked up forever, you'd have to double your taxes, dude. Criminals would fight the cops right and left, maybe even just shoot them out of hand, at the police department, set bombs under their cars, etc. Locked up, they cost us 30k per year each, and another 30k per year with their families on welfare, too. Multiply 60k per year times 15 million felons and what do you get, hmm? a trillion $ a year.

 

[jeager]

Dalisa

Well your solution is..............???????????????

I don't believe anyone here advocates locking people up forever for most crimes.
Very few in Ohio where I live actually serve a "life" sentence.

 

[TexasFreedom]

Jeager,

Given the quantity of people committing crimes deserving real prison time, I'm open to options. I do think capital punishment is not used often enough (for the crimes committed), and it should take less time to get there. And for lesser crimes, I'd consider going back to some whips/lashes. I don't consider that 'cruel' or 'unusual'. It should hurt excessively and keep hurting for weeks. But let it be a healthy lesson, and I bet it 'rehabilitates' far more criminals than 6 months in prison or just probation. Probation is fine for a first offense, everyone deserves a second chance (for lesser crimes). But after the first probation, it's obvious that the existing criminal justice system does not change their ways.

 

[jeager]

Personally I don't have a problem with the death penalty fitting the
crime.
I don't want even one day out of my life in jail
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww
I guy from our town did 12 years of a 25 year term for forcible rape.
He was on parole and did it again!
We could not make the case on the 2nd rape but I got that sucker on a
parole violation.
He had his live in p.o.s. girl friend by him a handgun.
I got a search warrant for the gun, found it and that was enough
to send him back for the balance of his term + 3 years for the gun.
We went to arrest him in his 2nd floor apt.
The dummy jumped 25 feet out the window and shattered both legs.
bawwwwwwwwwwwww-hawwwwwwwwwwww.

Well it was funny to me!
He's a rapist don'cha'know.
Shoulda broke his neck!

No wonder I'm nuking futs.