Warm weather food storage

[JonC12]

I have been reading a lot about food storage and suggestions, but have seen little to no opinion on warm weather (Florida, southern US) food storage.

There are millions of Americans within this area, where summer temps will reach upwards of 100 degrees during the day and only lower to around 80 at night and very few have basements or sub-terrain storage.

In a grid-down scenario, how long would a cache of stored food last?

In a grid-down, major disaster/war scenario where supplies are not coming in, how long before people become cannibals?

Are there any solutions to survivability in these areas?

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

In a grid-down scenario, how long would a cache of stored food last?

Texas here...what my experience has been, once the temp reaches about 90 degrees AND humidity levels above 70% in your storage area, daily, it tastes nasty in less than 4 weeks. It is still edible, as in not toxic, but makes you want to spit it out. In a pinch it might fill the hole in your stomach but, the nutritional value is significantly decreased.

As for suggestions.... good news bad news.
You have the ability to grow three to four crops a year and have easy access to edible natural vegetation year round. Bad news is without digging down fairly deep to construct a root cellar (limited by the high water table) or having access to an ice coolerand fan..you are going to have a difficult time. with stored foods.

For me, buying land where I could grow, raise and forage made for a better investment of funds than buying a year's supply of food for a group of thirty!

As for your cannibal question...I suspect, the population density of a region is more of a predictor than anything. As swarms of people leave cities, they will be almost like locusts and consume everything recognizable as edible, in their path. Leaving little in their wake for anyone living in that area.

 

[JonC12]

In a grid-down scenario, how long would a cache of stored food last?

Texas here...what my experience has been, once the temp reaches about 90 degrees AND humidity levels above 70% in your storage area, daily, it tastes nasty in less than 4 weeks. It is still edible, as in not toxic, but makes you want to spit it out. In a pinch it might fill the hole in your stomach but, the nutritional value is significantly decreased.

As for suggestions.... good news bad news.
You have the ability to grow three to four crops a year and have easy access to edible natural vegetation year round. Bad news is without digging down fairly deep to construct a root cellar (limited by the high water table) or having access to an ice coolerand fan..you are going to have a difficult time. with stored foods.

For me, buying land where I could grow, raise and forage made for a better investment of funds than buying a year's supply of food for a group of thirty!

Thanks for the info. That's what I had thought the answer would be, but was holding out hope that someone may have found a solution. Guess I better start diggin.

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

Thanks for the info. That's what I had thought the answer would be, but was holding out hope that someone may have found a solution. Guess I better start diggin.

Can I ask what your general situation is? Apartment, Condo, Inland, coastal, north, south etc? I used to live in Florida. I may have some additional suggestions with more parameters.

 

[JonC12]

Southern Florida, high density residential area, limited "conditioned" storage space, no basement, somewhat inland.

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

Okay, so water table is at about 10' I am guessing and in a storm, much higher with flooding. That is going to be a problem with a root cellar. If your goal is for EMERGENCY only storage, I might suggest instead, digging deep vertical holes (using a post hole digger) and buying large diameter PVC pipe and end caps. Place the food in, seal them shut, drop them into the hole and bury them. Dig them up at the end of a month and give it a taste. Just dont forget where you put them!
Don't rule out production. Even on a zero lot line build you can do more than you might suppose. Think vertical growing and not just horizontal. If you have a lanai, pots and again trellises on the walls, could provide many square feet of growing space for things like cucumbers, Kiwis and even berries.
Your home might be cooled with a heat pump system so be very careful digging!

 

[JonC12]

The pvc is a great idea, thanks.

As for production in over-populated ares, if I'm the only one with food and it's right out for everyone to see, either it won't last long or I won't last long.

 

[Proud Prepper]

Thanks for the info. That's what I had thought the answer would be, but was holding out hope that someone may have found a solution. Guess I better start diggin.

You could also create a earthen mound and dig into that.

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

Grow things not easily recognized as edible....or better yet, that looks poisonous but isn't.
Edible landscaping...IDK how particular your HOA is but there are many things that can be done.

For instance, what is this? Hint, it is not holly and produces wonderfully tasting red berries; good for jams, wine and preserves.

Take a wander through this link from University of Florida for some Ideas that might work for you.
Florida-Friendly Edible Landscaping - UF/IFAS Extension Orange County (ufl.edu)

Hibiscus, almost everyone has them there...the dried flowers make a wonderfully fruity sweet tea, full of vitamin C!

Another one, Date Palms come in varieties with edible fruits...there are many options.
Sugar cane. A guy up the street from us had it growing around his pool. For quite some time, I thought it was bamboo....which when young is also edible.

Go WILD! Eating native plants in SWFL (news-press.com)

The options you have are not an either -or black and white choice. Combine things and make it work for you. The goal is to survive and even scorpions and grasshoppers, have a place on my menu. I love being an omnivore! LOL

 

[JonC12]

Awesome info, thanks!

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

Awesome info, thanks!

You are welcome! Saluda!

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

Welcome to the board!

If you truly want your family and self to be safe, you will find a cheap few acres of land in a cooler area that is not highly occupied. People in high density areas will never be able to defend themselves from the horde. The smell of food carries. Gangs will rule the cities. Cannibalism is certain. You don’t necessarily even need a house on the land…in a cooler, but not cold area you could live in tents or RVs or Trailer, or even a barn. Then when Russia or our CIA shut down our grid…which is absolutely happening according to military folks in the know…you can bug out to your BOL and be much safer.

 

[Dani]

Jon, I'm a southern Texan gal here and will say that I can grow something year round. You may actually be more southern than I am, depending on your location in FL. We rarely have freezing temps, and if you plant fall type crops during the winter, they will survive. You can just cover them during those really low temps. I use coffee cans with a clear lid when small and very large tarps to cover rows.

As for preserving, learn how to can. That is your best bet down south with humidity. My biggest advice here, is make sure you clean your lids and jars after every batch before you store. Also make sure to take the rings off. Dehydrating and freeze drying are also good options. Just vacuum seal or for best option Mylar bags. I keep buckets of flour, sugar, baking soda, pasta, dried beans and rice.

 

[JonC12]

Welcome to the board!

If you truly want your family and self to be safe, you will find a cheap few acres of land in a cooler area that is not highly occupied. People in high density areas will never be able to defend themselves from the horde. The smell of food carries. Gangs will rule the cities. Cannibalism is certain. You don’t necessarily even need a house on the land…in a cooler, but not cold area you could live in tents or RVs or Trailer, or even a barn. Then when Russia or our CIA shut down our grid…which is absolutely happening according to military folks in the know…you can bug out to your BOL and be much safer.

Good advice, thank you

 

[JonC12]

Jon, I'm a southern Texan gal here and will say that I can grow something year round. You may actually be more southern than I am, depending on your location in FL. We rarely have freezing temps, and if you plant fall type crops during the winter, they will survive. You can just cover them during those really low temps. I use coffee cans with a clear lid when small and very large tarps to cover rows.

As for preserving, learn how to can. That is your best bet down south with humidity. My biggest advice here, is make sure you clean your lids and jars after every batch before you store. Also make sure to take the rings off. Dehydrating and freeze drying are also good options. Just vacuum seal or for best option Mylar bags. I keep buckets of flour, sugar, baking soda, pasta, dried beans and rice.

Thank you, I will look into doing that. Appreciate the advice.

 

[Schattentarn]

I would go with a canned food supply. Then, all you have to worry about is hiding it from your neighbors. And think about the upside. While everyone is eating a lentil and buckwheat casserole, you could be living on tasty junk food.

 

[Amish Heart]

Watch your humidity where you store food. Rusty cans and rusted lids and rings are not good.

 

[GaRp58]

In a grid-down, major disaster/war scenario where supplies are not coming in, how long before people become cannibals?

Absurd question, but a real question...Each human has its limits as to what it will eat.
Some humans would rather starve to death than to (sorry) eat a pet.
Some humans have absolutely no borders and are already cannibals...
Each human reacts to each catastrophe differently. Your question cannot be answered in a "normal" fashion since the parameters of the answer is too broad. TIME WILL TELL....

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

Watch your humidity where you store food. Rusty cans and rusted lids and rings are not good.

Good to see you Amish! How was the visit from family?

 

[JonC12]

Absurd question, but a real question...Each human has its limits as to what it will eat.
Some humans would rather starve to death than to (sorry) eat a pet.
Some humans have absolutely no borders and are already cannibals...
Each human reacts to each catastrophe differently. Your question cannot be answered in a "normal" fashion since the parameters of the answer is too broad. TIME WILL TELL....

I understand your perspective, though I have done much reading and research into the actions of starving populations in the 20th Century. There may be a few people who, while going through the tortuous agony of starving to death, refuse to eat their pets. The vast majority, especially families, will eat their pets. And they'll eat your pets too.

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

Absurd question, but a real question...Each human has its limits as to what it will eat.
Some humans would rather starve to death than to (sorry) eat a pet.
Some humans have absolutely no borders and are already cannibals...
Each human reacts to each catastrophe differently. Your question cannot be answered in a "normal" fashion since the parameters of the answer is too broad. TIME WILL TELL....

I would say that most well fed people have limits. A starving person has a way of changing those limits. Watching your children starve, also changes those parameters.

Psychological changes also take place in true starvation.

Because the brain is so rich in nerve cells, or neurons, it is the most energy-demanding organ, using one-half of all the sugar energy in the body! So what happens to the brain when there is no more sugar in the blood to consume?

People tend to think of the end point of starvation being the edema and bloated bellies we in the west have been shown but, that is relatively still early in the process. Psychosis is next.

Survivors have literally reported seeing and believing another person was a gigantic walking chicken leg, it isn't just the stuff of old cartoons.

 

[user 6208]

Two words to solve this problem: "hot sauce".

For centuries, spices have been used to mask the awful taste of less-than-fresh food.

While I can understand the idea of cannibalism, the actual practice is a lot more gruesome and difficult. Not to mention the diseases associated with the practice. If you suspect your neighbors of such, you should probably put them at the top of your kill list. After all, cannibalism is not very neighborly -- I'm sure they'd be violating some terms of the HOA.

I think canned goods with a decent shelf life is a better alternative to storage issues. I have opted to do without things which will rot or spoil without refrigeration.

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

Two words to solve this problem: "hot sauce".

For centuries, spices have been used to mask the awful taste of less-than-fresh food.

While I can understand the idea of cannibalism, the actual practice is a lot more gruesome and difficult. Not to mention the diseases associated with the practice. If you suspect your neighbors of such, you should probably put them at the top of your kill list. After all, cannibalism is not very neighborly -- I'm sure they'd be violating some terms of the HOA.

I think canned goods with a decent shelf life is a better alternative to storage issues. I have opted to do without things which will rot or spoil without refrigeration.

I have a sneaking suspicion the first thing you would raid at my place, if you were so inclined, would be my pepper patch. I have every exotic hot pepper known to man. Ironically, I can't eat them but, I make a mean, flavorful hot sauce and fresh salsa for everyone else.

 

[user 6208]

I bought many different spices in restaurant-sized containers. I'm not much of a farmer. I wish I was, but I have no experience with it.

I can make electricity and fuel from wood and steam, though. I'm hoping I can trade this ability with the non-cannibals in my area.

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

I bought many different spices in restaurant-sized containers. I'm not much of a farmer. I wish I was, but I have no experience with it.

I can make electricity and fuel from wood and steam, though. I'm hoping I can trade this ability with the non-cannibals in my area.

Wood gasifiers...I have tinkered with those because wood will be one resource I will have an unlimited supply of!

Barring someone starting a forest fire that is...

 

[user 6208]

I have found that vegetable oil is the most effective filter for wood gas. Too bad it doesn't keep well.

Cooling the gas is extremely important, too. It makes it denser.

A significant radiator is important. When I test, I submerge it in my pond.

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

I have found that vegetable oil is the most effective filter for wood gas. Too bad it doesn't keep well.

Cooling the gas is extremely important, too. It makes it denser.

A significant radiator is important. When I test, I submerge it in my pond.

I am growing some olive trees whose fruits are known for being good oil producers.

You should start a how to thread on it if you haven't already! But, dumb it down for the rest of us. I am not mechanically inclined and have to muddle my way through. Geometry, structural engineering, I can do...putting together a cement mixer from harbor freight with instructions from China, not so much.

You gave me an idea for a new thread with your earlier comment. Hopefully people will engage. The more input, the more ideas we all get!

 

[JonC12]

Two words to solve this problem: "hot sauce".

For centuries, spices have been used to mask the awful taste of less-than-fresh food.

While I can understand the idea of cannibalism, the actual practice is a lot more gruesome and difficult. Not to mention the diseases associated with the practice. If you suspect your neighbors of such, you should probably put them at the top of your kill list. After all, cannibalism is not very neighborly -- I'm sure they'd be violating some terms of the HOA.

I think canned goods with a decent shelf life is a better alternative to storage issues. I have opted to do without things which will rot or spoil without refrigeration.

Haha! I'll have to check my HOA for a "don't eat me" clause.

I know cannibalism may seem to be an exaggeration and would only be caused by the utmost extreme, but aren't the extremes what we are preparing for?

If it doesn't reach those extremes then that means supplies are still coming in and people can still eat, so why worry about food?

I also seem to remember not too long ago, besides the infamous wagon train and plane crash cannibals, that starving Catholics in Lebanon during the 1980s were at the point where they asked the pope if they could eat the dead and dying. It's not that much of a stretch.

Remember, 90 percent of the population recently decided it was rational to place a piece of ill-fitting paper over their face to keep them from inhaling microscopic particles, and over half of them also decided to inject an experimental concoction into their bodies without knowing the first thing about what it is or what it does, and many of them made their children take it too. Now imagine them starving.

 

[GeorgiaPeachie]

Remember, 90 percent of the population recently decided it was rational to place a piece of ill-fitting paper over their face to keep them from inhaling microscopic particles, and over half of them also decided to inject an experimental concoction into their bodies without knowing the first thing about what it is or what it does, and many of them made their children take it too. Now imagine them starving.

Oh my! Can’t argue with those facts! Maybe I will lose some weight…makes other people look more “worth it”.

 

[rainingcatzanddogs]

Haha! I'll have to check my HOA for a "don't eat me" clause.

I know cannibalism may seem to be an exaggeration and would only be caused by the utmost extreme, but aren't the extremes what we are preparing for?

If it doesn't reach those extremes then that means supplies are still coming in and people can still eat, so why worry about food?

I also seem to remember not too long ago, besides the infamous wagon train and plane crash cannibals, that starving Catholics in Lebanon during the 1980s were at the point where they asked the pope if they could eat the dead and dying. It's not that much of a stretch.

Remember, 90 percent of the population recently decided it was rational to place a piece of ill-fitting paper over their face to keep them from inhaling microscopic particles, and over half of them also decided to inject an experimental concoction into their bodies without knowing the first thing about what it is or what it does, and many of them made their children take it too. Now imagine them starving.

My professional training is in thought processes; particularly brain functions and behavioral effects before, during and after a life altering personal or collective event.

Apologies in advance for the long winded response but, I think you may find it helpful.

Cannibalism though is an issue though not an initial focus. Here is why.

FIRST you will have to survive "the takers" especially in a city setting, you will have a more significant portion of the population who are of the mindset of being provided for.

The washing machine breaks, call a repair service. The lawn needs mowing, hire a service. Don't have time to cook, eat out. Ran out of milk, oops! No big deal, a supply is just up the block.

Planning ahead, learning to do for yourself is much less of a necessity than it is an inconvenience.

Fast forward to TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it).

At first. most people will be confused and desperate for information as to what is happening. If that is not available, rumors will rule the day. And, like a child's game of telephone, morph into nonsensical chaos. This will unnerve people who will then begin to panic.

Groups tend to feed off of each other and mimic observed behaviors. Three people appear to be running away from something, others join one by one until you have a huge group running for their lives, most of whom, have no idea what they are running from. They just assumed the others did.

They will start to empty shelves spending what ever cash they have. Then, as they realize that the issue is not quickly resolving and the supplies are going to be insufficient, turn next to the government, looking for salvation. When that is not forthcoming, they will begin to loot stores and warehouses taking their "fair share" while they can.

The time frame for this to happen is estimated to be about 72 hours. There will be sporadic violence prior to this but, as long as law enforcement is functioning, the sewage is not backing up and there is water in the taps, it will not be en-masse for a short time.

Once the looted resources have dwindled down again (an additional 24-48 hours) and no remedy or explanation is forthcoming, you will start to see individuals start taking from other individuals. Break ins, muggings etc.

After this point, you will start to see more organized raids taking place. The gang elements found throughout this nation, even in the rural areas but far more populous in cities, will coalesce and organize. They will realize quickly that the ones who hold the resources (food), hold the power. This will fester and grow and when the local government collapses because the police and politicians have decided they must care for their own families, these gangs will be the new government, which people desperate to feed their families will gladly pledge their allegiance. to.

This stage will continue for weeks and months as pets and livestock are taken and slaughtered for consumption. There may be some small groups of individuals that turn to eating human flesh early on, but they will not be organized for some time because of the social stigma attached to it.

Your main concern will be surviving the organized gang elements which will be heavily armed and ruthless, just as they are now. If you survive that long, you will be a hardened warrior and a group of cannibals will be little more than a nuisance.