Radiation - How to guard against it.

[Gazrok]

While the threat of nuclear war is something many of us faced while kids during the Cold War, that threat has largely diminished. However, it is still possible. Worse though, is that if the grid went down, the nuclear plants in the US would eventually have a meltdown, meaning Chernobyl type events all over half the nation.

Here's what is needed of a shelter:

A basic fallout shelter consists of shields that reduce gamma ray exposure by a factor of 1000. The required shielding can be accomplished with 10 times the thickness of any quantity of material capable of cutting gamma ray exposure in half. Shields that reduce gamma ray intensity by 50% (1/2) include 1 cm (0.4 inch) of lead, 6 cm (2.4 inches) of concrete, 9 cm (3.6 inches) of packed earth or 150 m (500 ft) of air. When multiple thicknesses are built, the shielding multiplies. Thus, a practical fallout shield is ten halving-thicknesses of packed earth, reducing gamma rays by approximately 1024 times (210).[12]
Usually, an expedient purpose-built fallout shelter is a trench; with a strong roof buried by c. 1 m (3 ft) of earth. The two ends of the trench have ramps or entrances at right angles to the trench, so that gamma rays cannot enter (they can travel only in straight lines). To make the overburden waterproof (in case of rain), a plastic sheet may be buried a few inches below the surface and held down with rocks or bricks.[13]
Blast doors are designed to absorb the shock wave of a nuclear blast, bending and then returning to their original shape

Then, there is the question of how long.

Inhabitants should plan to remain sheltered for at least two weeks (with an hour out at the end of the first week – see Swiss Civil Defense guidelines (which was once part of Swiss Zivilschutz)), then work outside for gradually increasing amounts of time, to four hours a day at three weeks. The normal work is to sweep or wash fallout into shallow trenches to decontaminate the area. They should sleep in a shelter for several months. Evacuation at three weeks is recommended by official authorities.[citation needed]
If available, inhabitants may take potassium iodide at the rate of 130 mg/day per adult (65 mg/day per child) as an additional measure to protect the thyroid gland from the uptake of dangerous radioactive iodine, a component of most fallout and reactor waste.[21]

It's a good idea to get a Geiger Counter (can be had for around $100) to check also, in such an event.

 

[Gazrok]

Note, if you don't think you'll receive an actual blast, you can focus on the door just being made to shield radiation, vs. a blast door.

 

[Gazrok]

Another thing to add. If a shelter is for 6 people, you don't need 6 beds. 2 will do. 24hrs in a day. At any given time, 2 could sleep for 8 hours, then 2 more the next 8, 2 more the final 8, etc. This can keep your construction cost down.
Remember to think about temperature, air filtering, waste disposal, water, and food, etc. (and ability to read levels outside). Personally, we won't be doing ANYTHING fancy or cooking for the time we'd be in there. Ration bars and water, and snacks. Be sure to have something to DO in there (like games, etc.). Our plan is board games, laptops with movies, etc.

2 weeks would really suck this way, so hoping it wouldn't be that long.

 

[Tyler]

Thanks for the post Gazrok, I'm not personally looking into a fallout situation but I want my bunker to be set incase something like that happens. What is the point of prepping if you can't be protected from something?

 

[Gazrok]

Depends where you are. How close are you to a nuclear power plant? If they lose power for an extended time, they WILL have a meltdown. No ifs about it.
I'm not in a circle, but I am going to get some if the wind is going my way.

 

[Tyler]

I'd be going to canada, possibly to ottawa

 

[rudyc]

so what are the lines in the circles?

 

[jimLE]

ok rudyc ..if your asking about the ones that start off black and ends up being yellow.thats the wind direcction.and the direction of the fall out part thats in the air,and being blown away from the plant.if you need to the exact location of the nearest one to you...and then here's a link that shows which one that'd be clostest to you.pluse there's diff maps..so it's just a matter of chooseing the one that gives you the info that you need..
https://www.google.com/searchq=nuclear+power+plants+in+the+usa&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=BAM_Uo60I6rwiwKL_IE4&ved=0CFgQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=663&dpr=1#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=sc84w5ofxl7UTM%3A%3BFgUdIMtnLevsqM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.nukepills.com%252Fimages%252FUS-Reactor-Map-anim.gif%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.nukepills.com%252Fnuclear-reactor-maps.htm%3B546%3B364

 

[jimLE]

that web link didnt work for me.so here's a new one

https://www.google.com/search?q=nuclear+power+plants+in+usa+map&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=1DVcUuq0KO6GigK96oGADg&ved=0CDQQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=663

 

[Clyde]

Depends where you are. How close are you to a nuclear power plant? If they lose power for an extended time, they WILL have a meltdown. No ifs about it.
I'm not in a circle, but I am going to get some if the wind is going my way.

View attachment 1459

Actually they can scram the reactors. That is when they quickly drop the uranium rods in the water to stop them.
Of course when you scram the reactors it usually cause a lot of damage, but considering the alternative....

Also many plants have up to triple redundancy to ensure all can be handled with out a release.

If your are curious here is Title 10 of the US CFR from the NRC's website.
Title 10 Of The US CFR

 

[Gazrok]

The lines were the wind patterns for that day. They would change daily.

That is refreshing info Clyde, but the worry is that there isn't anyone going into work to do that scram work during the SHTF, or activate the redundancy features, etc. Only so much of it is automated. And, how much of it depends on a functioning infrastructure to happen? There's the rub.

 

[GatherYeAcorns]

A good supply of K+ iodide or iodine to drink.

 

[Illini Warrior]

http://prepperswill.com/how-radiation-kills-and-how-to-protect-yourself-in-a-nuclear-disaster/

tagging on this article >>>> decent enough coverage on the technical aspects but not above the understanding of the average prepper ....

 

[Kevin L]

I have toyed with the idea of setting up a radiation shelter, but I'm divided within myself.

On one hand, it can be argued that any protection at all is better than nothing, and will certianly extend life.

On the other hand, I question whether all the infrastructure neccesary to make a really effective radiation shelter (including air filters, radiation suits, dosemeter badges, gieger counters, decon facilities, and so on) is cost effective for anyone less than a millionaire.

Even if this infrastructure is in place, what of the aftermath?

I don't believe in heroic measures for people with terminal illnesses (like an aggressive cancer) when it comes to CPR, organ transplants, and so on.

I could see it being worthwhile to try and survive the meltdown of a reactor or a local dirty bomb.

But a full-scale nuclear exchange?

I question whether it's worthwhile to even try to survive a nuclear war . . . as I would probably do a good job surviving, but I would have to ask myself why I should even bother, as I fail to see how continued life under these circumstances could have any real meaning.

Surviving a nuclear exchange seems about as pointless as reviving a terminal cancer patient by performing CPR.

I could be wrong and/or excessively pessimistic.

Maybe I would feel differently if I was younger, but I'm 53 years old.

 

[tmttactical]

1) Cost effective. You are a writers. Write a story or a series of articles on the radiation shelter and get Uncle Sam to pay for it, as a research write off. 2) The good people (yes I think you at one but tell anybody I said it) that survive are needed to rebuild a better society. The planet will need more than just the self centered millionaires. So good old down to earth people will be needed to help set things back on the right track. Your concepts are usually wrong but your heart is in the right place. After surviving the SHTF event, your concepts will change, so good heart and good concepts, win-win.

 

[Kevin L]

1) Cost effective. You are a writers. Write a story or a series of articles on the radiation shelter and get Uncle Sam to pay for it, as a research write off. 2) The good people (yes I think you at one but tell anybody I said it) that survive are needed to rebuild a better society. The planet will need more than just the self centered millionaires. So good old down to earth people will be needed to help set things back on the right track. Your concepts are usually wrong but your heart is in the right place. After surviving the SHTF event, your concepts will change, so good heart and good concepts, win-win.

Thank you.

But my concepts are usually wrong?

 

[JackDW]

"that survive are needed to rebuild a better society". My opinion, that would be the main reason for the strong to survive. In most cases, this would be the people who prepared, meaning more intelligent than most (expect for the brain dead politician who will survive like a cock-roach at taxpayers expense). In my case, I am well into my 60s and had a vasectomy many years ago, so I would not be good for rebuilding the society.

For most situation, I will fight to survive, just because I am stubborn. But for something like this, I realize that I would just be a waste of resources and would just accept my fate.

 

[Kevin L]

"that survive are needed to rebuild a better society". My opinion, that would be the main reason for the strong to survive. In most cases, this would be the people who prepared, meaning more intelligent than most (expect for the brain dead politician who will survive like a cock-roach at taxpayers expense). In my case, I am well into my 60s and had a vasectomy many years ago, so I would not be good for rebuilding the society.

For most situation, I will fight to survive, just because I am stubborn. But for something like this, I realize that I would just be a waste of resources and would just accept my fate.

I am tempted to agree.

In the South Pacific, horrific nuclear weapons were tested in the 50s and 60s on remote atolls, and these areas are still dangerously radioactive today. People in this part of the world still develop exotic cancers, birth defects, and other disabilities and illnesses from these tests.

I also question whether the government and physicists really know what they're doing.

In one nuclear test, the thermonuclear explosion was actually four times more powerful than the scientists calculated that it should be, as the theory was inadequate and certian numbers were overlooked and dismissed.

Just in case you think I'm bullshitting, look up the Castle Bravo test that was conducted in the Marshall Islands.

 

[Maverick]

FYI: The Nomograph

https://www.parowanprophet.com/Nuclear_War_Comes/nomograph_information.htm

Every prepper should have one and know how to use it that is radiation specific (example below) These use to be in the CD fallout shelters early 60s, still valid today, the link above explains it

 

[erqueen75]

FYI: The Nomograph

Nuclear Fallout -Nomograph Information- Computing Shelter Stay time

Every prepper should have one and know how to use it that is radiation specific (example below) These use to be in the CD fallout shelters early 60s, still valid today, the link above explains it

View attachment 9506

RADS/HR are so much easier to calculate than curies/millisieverts/Sieverts/Grays/ megabecqueres. Cruddy metric system! USA USA USA (I jest)

 

[erqueen75]

Depends where you are. How close are you to a nuclear power plant? If they lose power for an extended time, they WILL have a meltdown. No ifs about it.
I'm not in a circle, but I am going to get some if the wind is going my way.

View attachment 1459

Are these only the commercial reactors online? Not taking into account the decommissioned sites that probably still have there high/low level waste still on site? Also, what about academic and military sites? That puts A LOT more circles on the map. There is nothing marked in Idaho, Colorado, New Mexico...Some interesting stuff to be found in those states...

Absolutely no disrespect to Clyde, but triple redundancy or not-IMHO meltdown will occur. I am curious to what others think about this matter. Please post responses.

Many thanks

 

[MOS0231]

Our friend and lawyer used to live in the shadow of a nuclear power plant. Like, no kidding, in the fall when all the leaves fell off the trees, you could see the cooling tower.
Many of her neighbors worked at the plant.
They have a vested personal interest in the plant not melting down.

 

[Schattentarn]

I am a bit worried about a nuclear leak event and prevailing winds bringing it to me. A gas mask might be a temporary fix. So I am looking at Russian masks. The American models are just face masks and you have to shave off your beard to make them work. They are dependent on an additional covering going over your head. The Russian masks just go over your head. They also come with modern American M40 filters. Here is a view of that mask (a cheap one).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Soviet-Rus...493844?hash=item421f829814:g:xswAAOSwojdbPg7o

 

[Dave2001]

In dealing with radiation remember T, D, S, T being the length of time you are exposed to it, D is the distance you are from the source, And S being the type of shielding you have available or used, These 3 items determine the amount of damage to you from an exposure!!! YOU dont want to glow in the dark!!!!

 

[Dave2001]

RADS/HR are so much easier to calculate than curies/millisieverts/Sieverts/Grays/ megabecqueres. Cruddy metric system! USA USA USA (I jest)

I acyually have a fallout shelter built in 1962 at my house and its fully equiped!!

 

[Dave2001]

I am a bit worried about a nuclear leak event and prevailing winds bringing it to me. A gas mask might be a temporary fix. So I am looking at Russian masks. The American models are just face masks and you have to shave off your beard to make them work. They are dependent on an additional covering going over your head. The Russian masks just go over your head. They also come with modern American M40 filters. Here is a view of that mask (a cheap one).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Soviet-Rus...493844?hash=item421f829814:g:xswAAOSwojdbPg7o

Also remember the gas masks have different types of filters for different types of threats, they are NOT one filter fits all!!

 

[Dracos]

Back in the 1970's me and a like minded friend, discovered an abandoned copper mine while hunting. It was about 6 miles from any paved road and a mile and a half from any drivable road. Then a difficult hike up a steep mountain. Upon observation we found there was a zig-zag mule trail going around and down the mountain. It went straight back in, being about 9 feet high and 6 feet wide, cut and blasted for about 120 feet. Then it turned left and right. the right turn ended at a small room. The left opened up into a huge gallery, about 10 feet wide and 12 feet high and 30 feet long. At the end of that room was a short left and a short right and another small room about 6 feet by 8 feet and 7 feet high. A trip to the courthouse showed this claim and several others on the same mountain had been patented in 1908. No assay work had been documented after 1912. So it was our property as much as anyone else. We set about to make the perfect fallout shelter and bug out location. For several years we stocked this place. Carrying food and water and guns and ammo to this remote place. When it was full we made it look as if the door had caved in.
30 years go by. My son asked me to take him to this shelter that I had spoken of. "OK" We did the drive and the hike and found... almost nothing, The bears had denned there, the rats had feasted there, and peed and pooped there. The guns had rusted. The ammo had been soaked and been made useless. Nothing of any use at all except a bottle of Everclear. My son drove us home.

 

[erqueen75]

Back in the 1970's me and a like minded friend, discovered an abandoned copper mine while hunting. It was about 6 miles from any paved road and a mile and a half from any drivable road. Then a difficult hike up a steep mountain. Upon observation we found there was a zig-zag mule trail going around and down the mountain. It went straight back in, being about 9 feet high and 6 feet wide, cut and blasted for about 120 feet. Then it turned left and right. the right turn ended at a small room. The left opened up into a huge gallery, about 10 feet wide and 12 feet high and 30 feet long. At the end of that room was a short left and a short right and another small room about 6 feet by 8 feet and 7 feet high. A trip to the courthouse showed this claim and several others on the same mountain had been patented in 1908. No assay work had been documented after 1912. So it was our property as much as anyone else. We set about to make the perfect fallout shelter and bug out location. For several years we stocked this place. Carrying food and water and guns and ammo to this remote place. When it was full we made it look as if the door had caved in.
30 years go by. My son asked me to take him to this shelter that I had spoken of. "OK" We did the drive and the hike and found... almost nothing, The bears had denned there, the rats had feasted there, and peed and pooped there. The guns had rusted. The ammo had been soaked and been made useless. Nothing of any use at all except a bottle of Everclear. My son drove us home.

To quote U.S. Army BGen A. McAuliffe, "NUTS!"

 

[Schattentarn]

Also remember the gas masks have different types of filters for different types of threats, they are NOT one filter fits all!!

They will take a NATO M40 filter. I bought two of these.

US Army Issue NBC C2 M40 & M40A1 Gas Mask Filter Sealed in Metal Tin NOS | eBay

 

[Trihonda]

Back in the 80's, My dad was passionate about surviving a nuclear war. he was a civil instructor (for the military), teaching post nuclear detonation survival. He knew where where bombs would fall, blast radius size, what radiation, and how to build a shelter. He was a prodigy, and absolutely brilliant... But he could never apply himself or focus (ADHD?). Anyway, his passion to spread the word about survival led to his creating a role playing game called "Survive". I just found all his old manuscripts (printed on old library word processors, lol). I had it transcribed to modern documents, and am now in the process of testing the game for modern distribution. Why give this background? Because I'm going to copy and paste the RADEF section (not edited or updated from what my dad wrote in the 80's). This was my dad's life work, and is for entertainment purposes only. Use this info at your own risk, but my dad did know his stuff...


APPENDIX A: PRINCIPLES OF RADIOLOGICAL DEFENSE (RADEF)

Fallout radiation is one of the least understood hazards that will be faced following any nuclear exchange. Fallout radiation is not a gas. Fallout comes from the tons of earth, rock, and concrete vaporized in a nuclear surface burst. The vaporized material is carried upward as the fireball rises to form the toroidal “mushroom” cloud. Churned and mixed with the 80 or so radioactive isotopes produced in the nuclear fission of the warhead (the fusion portion is “clean”), this material cools and condenses first into molten globs, and then particles, ranging in size from fine sand to small marbles. The isotopes within these particles give off the radiation that is so hazardous.

Each of the 80 odd isotopes gives off one of three types of radiation. Alpha particles are very low energy, and are only a threat if the fallout particle is inhaled or ingested. Beta particles are of a slightly higher level of energy, and can also cause “Beta burns” from fallout in contact with the skin. Gamma rays are very high energy, and very penetrating. A Gamma ray can pass through the entire body, destroying or damaging many of the cells it contacts. Enough exposure to Gamma radiation will kill enough cells to make a person ill for weeks. A larger exposure can kill or leave one disabled for months or even years.

Each of the isotopes mixed up in the fallout particles decays (loses radioactivity) at it’s own rate. The time it takes for any given isotope to lose half its radioactivity is the “half-life” of that isotope. The isotopes with the shortest half lives will emit radiation at a much higher rate, and those with the longest will emit at lower rates, thus being far less of a threat unless ingested or inhaled. Since the rough distribution of isotopes and their decay rates are known, an overall decay curve can be determined. This curve is expressed in the “Seven-Ten Rule”; For every SEVENFOLD increase in TIME, there will be a TENFOLD decrease in the rate at which radiation will be emitted. Thus, if the rate at H+1 hour was 250 rad per hour, then at H+7 hours, the rate would be 25 rad per hour, at H+49 hours (2 days) it would be 2.5 rad per hour, and at 2 weeks the rate would be down to .25 rad per hour. At this rate (.25 rad per hour) emergence from a shelter may be safely accomplished wearing a respiratory filter or gas mask and clothing to prevent contact with the skin (an anticontamination “RAD” suit). At this point, the job of rebuilding civilization can begin.

Protection from fallout (until TIME has reduced the hazard) can be provided by either MASS or DISTANCE (or a combination of BOTH). MASS attenuates (lessons) radiation because a Gamma ray must “spend” energy to get through. The thickness of any shielding material that will only allow half of the exposure is called the “half thickness” (HT) of that material. For example, one HT will allow half the radiation through, a second HT will allow only half of THAT radiation, a third HT will only allow half of the radiation that passes through the second, and so on. Thus, one HT gives a Protection Factor (PF) of two; two HT gives a PF of four; three HT will yield a PF of eight; four HT gives PF-16, and so on. Each additional HT of any material added to the shielding will DOUBLE the PF that is provided. (See PF table at the end of this appendix).

Distance attenuates radiation of all kinds according to the inverse square law. If the intensity of any radiation at any given base distance from its source is know, the intensity at any multiple of that base will be 1 over (fractional) the square of that multiple. The standard RADEF base distance is 3 feet, this at 6 feet (multiple of 2) there would be 1/3x3 or 1/9; at 12 feet (multiple of 4) intensity would be 1/4x4 of 1/16 of base. A chart showing the distances at which PF is achieved is as follows:



INSERT: Half Thickness Charts.