Welcome to Doomsday Prepper Forums!
Doomsday Prepper Forums - for serious Doomsday Preppers and for those who want to protect themselves from man-made and natural disasters, financial collapse, EMP

You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user. Sign up or
Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions.

  1. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our FREE community today!

    -Registered Members have an opportunity to upgrade their accounts to VIP, which brings a host of benefits for supporting Doomsday Prepper Forums such as Raffles, Additional Forum Access, More PM Storage, The ability to upload more Images and many other enhancements.

    -Members do NOT see advertisements!

    -Registered members also get access to the live chat box! This is something not seen in other Doomsday Prepper sites!

    -Are you having troubles registering? if so contact us at webmaster@doomsdayprepperforums.com and let us know what problems you are having.

What are you going to use for serious pain meds...possible surgery?

Discussion in 'First Aid, Medicine, and Healthcare' started by Uncle Albert, Jun 15, 2013.

  1. old_anorak
    Offline

    old_anorak Prepping Goddess Super Moderator VIP Elite Top Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,702
    Likes Received:
    2,023
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    missouri
    Awards:
    $100 photo 100_zps27ef0973.png
    Favorite Weapon:
    .243
    Bugging Out?:
    No
    Prepping For?:
    society going to hell in a handbasket
    Brake cleaner and starter fluid are both almost pure ether.
  2. Todd@T2_Tactical
    Offline

    Todd@T2_Tactical . VIP Bronze Advanced Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    78
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Awards:
    $25 photo dsaw_3_25_zps8f208953.gif
    Favorite Weapon:
    M14
    Bugging Out?:
    Unsure
    Prepping For?:
    Zombies
    Usually with any insurance, you can get a bottle of 800-1000 mil IB's. Although not much they are better then the standard tylenol you can get at the store. They are also shelf stable far past the expiration dates.
  3. Uncle Albert
    Offline

    Uncle Albert . Top Poster Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    131
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Louisiana USA
    Favorite Weapon:
    shotgun
    Bugging Out?:
    No
    Prepping For?:
    collaspe of American economy
    Save their life, destroy their lungs. I like it.
  4. old_anorak
    Offline

    old_anorak Prepping Goddess Super Moderator VIP Elite Top Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,702
    Likes Received:
    2,023
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    missouri
    Awards:
    $100 photo 100_zps27ef0973.png
    Favorite Weapon:
    .243
    Bugging Out?:
    No
    Prepping For?:
    society going to hell in a handbasket
    It's a catch 22. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. I suppose I can't make the decision until I'm faced with it.
    Danil54grl likes this.
  5. Mike Quinn
    Offline

    Mike Quinn . Top Poster Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Messages:
    435
    Likes Received:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Aberdeenshire Scotland
    Favorite Weapon:
    Crossbow. Air rifle
    Bugging Out?:
    Yes
    Prepping For?:
    Global meltdown, financial crash
    Watch what your doin with Valarian it can and does cause nightmares so im told by a reliable source the wife ....
  6. MistiLoo
    Offline

    MistiLoo Member Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2013
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    N. Dallas, TX
    Favorite Weapon:
    12 Gauge
    Bugging Out?:
    Unsure
    Prepping For?:
    Hyper inflation and to get off the GMO/Monsanto track being ramrodded into place by the US Government.
    Ok. I haven't read that, but just beginning my studies. .. Still have a lot to learn about so much! Pass my thanks to the wife pls.
  7. old_anorak
    Offline

    old_anorak Prepping Goddess Super Moderator VIP Elite Top Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,702
    Likes Received:
    2,023
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    missouri
    Awards:
    $100 photo 100_zps27ef0973.png
    Favorite Weapon:
    .243
    Bugging Out?:
    No
    Prepping For?:
    society going to hell in a handbasket
    Yes, you have to temper the valerian with other herbals, you have to temper comfrey as well.
    MistiLoo likes this.
  8. Shenandoah
    Offline

    Shenandoah . Top Poster Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    139
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Colorado
    Favorite Weapon:
    45 automatic
    Bugging Out?:
    No
    Prepping For?:
    Collapse of the US dollar and the ensuing chaos.
    If you are talking about "knocking someone out for surgery", I would go with Starting Fluid. It is basically the same thing used in the operating room of 20 years ago. We raise Clydesdale draft horses and we always use Starting Fluid to knock em out when we castrate our stud colts. I just squirt a little on a washcloth and place it over their nose and let em breathe it...sometimes it will take a couple squirts and down they go! Remove the cloth from their nose and simply monitor them while we change them from roosters to hens. If they begin to wake up and move around too much, give em another squirt. We have on occasion put the person holding the horse's head still to sleep also....they survived unscathed! Although they do complain of a headache when they wake up.

    Blessings,
    Shenandoah
    Chicknladee likes this.
  9. kcdevildog
    Offline

    kcdevildog . Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    105
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Kansas City
    Favorite Weapon:
    Stag Arms model 3, mossberg 500, xd45
    Bugging Out?:
    Yes
    Prepping For?:
    Economic Collapse
    I have EMT training, I would shoot for paramedic at a minimum. EMT is VERY basic.
    topdoc30 and Uncle Albert like this.
  10. Uncle Albert
    Offline

    Uncle Albert . Top Poster Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    131
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Louisiana USA
    Favorite Weapon:
    shotgun
    Bugging Out?:
    No
    Prepping For?:
    collaspe of American economy
    Are you talking car starter fluid or BBQ starter fluid?
  11. Uncle Albert
    Offline

    Uncle Albert . Top Poster Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    131
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Louisiana USA
    Favorite Weapon:
    shotgun
    Bugging Out?:
    No
    Prepping For?:
    collaspe of American economy
    I think you're right start EMT and keep going.
  12. old_anorak
    Offline

    old_anorak Prepping Goddess Super Moderator VIP Elite Top Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,702
    Likes Received:
    2,023
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    missouri
    Awards:
    $100 photo 100_zps27ef0973.png
    Favorite Weapon:
    .243
    Bugging Out?:
    No
    Prepping For?:
    society going to hell in a handbasket
    Car.
  13. Shenandoah
    Offline

    Shenandoah . Top Poster Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    139
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Colorado
    Favorite Weapon:
    45 automatic
    Bugging Out?:
    No
    Prepping For?:
    Collapse of the US dollar and the ensuing chaos.
    Car Starter Fluid

    Blessings,
    Shenandoah
  14. Uncle Albert
    Offline

    Uncle Albert . Top Poster Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    131
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Louisiana USA
    Favorite Weapon:
    shotgun
    Bugging Out?:
    No
    Prepping For?:
    collaspe of American economy
    Thanks, that is educational. Perhaps the last direction we would go because of the fear of side effects, but if it saves the life of a loved one...it's going to be in my bag of tricks.
  15. sharkbait
    Offline

    sharkbait . Top Poster Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2013
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    293
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    ohio
    Favorite Weapon:
    any
    Bugging Out?:
    No
    Prepping For?:
    anything
    Here's another fyi that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread.Not for pain relief but needed none the less-antibiotics.Fish Mox Forte is 500mg of lab grade pure amoxicillin used by aquarist for different bacterial and fungus infections,as a salt water reef aquarium owner,i'm pretty familiar with it.Same stuff you get with a script,you can buy at your local pet/fish store,not cheap though.
  16. Uncle Albert
    Offline

    Uncle Albert . Top Poster Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    131
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Louisiana USA
    Favorite Weapon:
    shotgun
    Bugging Out?:
    No
    Prepping For?:
    collaspe of American economy
    Thanks for the tip, I'm adding it to my list.
  17. WilliamAshley
    Offline

    WilliamAshley Forever Banned and Forgotten Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Messages:
    288
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Longlac Ontario
    Favorite Weapon:
    communication
    Bugging Out?:
    Unsure
    Prepping For?:
    survival
    serious surgery is not a concern for myself. Most heavy anesthetics are illegal, you'd need to aquire them after issues from ambulances, medical supply sites, or hospitals. If stuff breaks down and riots occur then most sources would be gone.

    I have some over the counter stuff but nothing I would use for pain killing for major surgical pain ex. tylenol plus, buscapan plus, alleve, and antiinflamatories.

    Pain killers are way too regulated up here, even if the native reserves have tons floating around.

    Pain killers are only absolutely needed if you need to be active and that isnt ideal for post op anyway.

    No major surgery would likely be performed under conditions as it would probably endanger me more.

    Play safe.

    close it up and hope it doesn't get infected. surgery beyond that is probably going to make things worse. especially if they arn't a trained surgeon. especially if it is from a trauma. bottom line don't do anything stupid if society breaks down. There is no reason to need surgery if you act responsibly and are in moderately good health.

    I havn't had a single emergency surgery once in my life, and that includes falling off the back of a moving car, getting a metal gate to crack my scalp open causing lots of blood, having my bike flip my chin and knees into concrete at high velocity with resulting blood, having an oak door kicked open into my forehead crushing my skull and slightly deforming it, having my Adam's Apple crushed from a choke hold, having my Adam's a
    Apple close-lined (closest to death I've ever been) I could think any greater injury would be lethal. Other high risk situations most involve driving at high speed such as someone being parked at night in the middle of a highway with a concrete barrier in a 110km zone, car accidentally being put into reverse going down a really big curved hill causing a steering wheel lock and electrical short of the cars systems.
    I have survived all these things without needing surgery or pain killers (except falling off the back of a car), and the door I would have taken them.

    Pain killers are 1. probably illegal, and 2. probably really arn't needed if you are safe and responsible. Bite the bit and suck it up.

    pain killers arn't good for the mind, pain tells you something it is there for a reason.

    I do know some plants that cause drowsyness and unconciousness though, but nothing I would really want to take. For instance vetch contains cyanide which was used as an anesthetic for some time, it isn't safe, most arnt.


    Note that with vetch and poison hemlock - in non lethal doses (your guess is as good as mine) you have some ingredients for both putting someone out, as well as providing the precursors for a dissociative anesthetic.

    I would never recommend this but if you are in immenent risk of death, it will stop the pain.. and perhaps make surgery easier. Something to consider. But this is only for instances where the person is flopping all around screaming and bleeding to death needing internal surgery, amputation etc.. This is not medical advice and is not recommended for any situation where there is medical help available. Bear in mind cyanide and pipperdine and other compounds found in vetch and poison hemlock, or pepper, are not fatal by default, humans have a tolerance that can allow consumption without fatality. Poison hemlock can cause muscular paralysis, but with ventilation for a couple days the drug will make its way out of the body. Note I don't recommend this but if you have nothing else and you give to much, as long as you can ventilate them they could still survive. Using anesthetics isn't quite this risky but if you got nothing else, atleast they will pass on without pain in.


    ---

    In regard to EMT training.. it is better than nothing.. but EMTs arn't surgeons. Pain can often times just be superficial. I have very basic first aid, from first aid training, and rescue diver training, as well as self training. Personally I would not expect to live if we were flung back to the 1850's, if I started suffering serious internal bleeding, or an organ rupture, cardiac epedema, stroke etc.. damage to an artery might be ok but say a compound fracture with tissue damage and severed arteries. No sorry without a hospital and a trained suregon pass the poison hemlock and call me in the morning.


    going from this:



    to


    has this as an intermediate.



    This is relatively "innocent and not complex"

    I have 0% chance of medical assistance in event of something paracetemol cannot handle in the event of SHTF.

    No one I mean no one who is not a trained surgeon. Bear in mind most of the wounds like Gunshot would would start this way

    Anything that needs more pain killer than I can get in popping a few grams of a paracetemol is something I'm probably not going to want to survive.
  18. MedMan56
    Offline

    MedMan56 Member Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2013
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Lawton, OK
    Favorite Weapon:
    SA M1A
    Bugging Out?:
    Unsure
    Prepping For?:
    Economic Collapse
    This one area I want to get into thoroughly. Interesting info Uncle Albert. One fact I would like to point out, IF, you have the medications, you could use benadryl, and phenegren to make someone drowsy and knock them out. It's actually in protocols to use benadryl with morphine use in trauma cases. You have to watch out for depression of the Central Nervous System though. Back to the point, Alcohol (Liqour of some sort) has been used for many, many years to ease the pain of surgery. This is a good subject that I am going to study some more on. I guess the person could just suck it up and drive on. The other part to this thread should be, what about antiseptics? How do you keep the wound from getting infected after the surgery, and how can you manage pain and asepsis after a collapse...
  19. MahoganyEclipse
    Offline

    MahoganyEclipse . Top Poster Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    La Verkin, Utah
    Favorite Weapon:
    REASON is my favorite weapon too! And .243 Savage rifle. And machete. And some knives.
    Bugging Out?:
    Unsure
    Prepping For?:
    Economic collapse or World War III, whichever comes first. Probably social unrest. Oh, & for stupid idiots, that probably comes w/ social unrest bit tho.
    Holy batflaps! If that was me and there wasnt any painkiller/knock out stuff Id tell them to whack me over the head wih a board before doing any surgery! Im just stocking on basic stuff that I get at Wal-Mart but am going to school in the medical field but nothing like nursing though I have two sisters who are. I study herbs too but gotta get way more indepth. The car starter fluid is interesting and definetly better than nothing, especially after watching those videos, yikes!!
  20. LWesterfield
    Offline

    LWesterfield . VIP Bronze Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    94
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Awards:
    $25 photo dsaw_3_25_zps8f208953.gif
    Favorite Weapon:
    Crossbow
    Bugging Out?:
    Unsure
    Prepping For?:
    Any event or disaster that will change life as we now know it.
    You can purchase Cephalexin, Amoxicillin and Tetracyline capsules "for fish" from pet stores, feed stores and probably online as well. It will be most expensive at the pet stores where they usually sell a card of 12 capsules for around $20.00. I get 100 capsules of "Fish Flex" for $37.50 at my local feed store. Definitely something to stock up on to prevent or cure infections.

Share This Page