US not ready for nuclear ttack

[Silent Earth]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...g-vision-happen-America-hit-nuclear-bomb.html

 

[Gazrok]

First off, a 10kt bomb is unlikely. Most common scenario would be a 2 to 3 megaton missile, as an air burst (most modern nukes). This is WAY different than the scenario in the article which supposes a Hiroshima style bomb. The bad news, larger area of effect. The good news, a LOT less in the way of radiation.

As for how "prepared" we are...we (wisely) invested more in a strategy of mutually assured destruction and in the capability for an anti-ballistic missile defense system (which is a multi-stage, and multi-contingency strategy). Seriously, look it up if you never had, from ground-based, sea-based, and even space-based countermeasures, it's pretty impressive. Nothing is full-proof, of course, but it certainly gives any potential enemy pause to consider the consequences of a nuclear attack on the U.S. (i.e. limited assurance of it doing damage, while virtually 100% chance of the attacker being irradiated into extinction).

Not much we can really do to "prepare" if something hits though. You can't do a mass evacuation in 15 minutes, which is about how long you'd know in advance. For medical, you'd pretty much just treat the folks that actually have a shot at living. That said, an airburst one is a lot more survivable (as a human) than the bomb scenario, at least for those out of the initial fireball.

 

[Maverick]

We can only hope that's all that is fired at us is a 10kt but I doubt it would be that small! Also, russia and china isn't only going to fire a couple of 10kt's we are looking at between 300-800kt in a number of strategic locations plowing down on us.

"Current US nuclear war response protocols do not rely as much on large-scale evacuations from nearby areas"

No since to evac, it wasn't even protocol back in the good old CD days, you have a certain amount of time to seek shelter in fallout shelters or homes and hunker down until told otherwise, once safe to move one would follow the instructions from Conelrad 640 or 1240am radio station replaced by the EAS system. The hunkering down and staying put is still the protocol in times of a nuclear war this time our instructions will come from EAS.

As large as some of our cities are it would be pandemonium, yes most places have evac routs though in large cites the planners know evac plans only satisfies the planners and feds, they know the reality of such a plan, in L.A. you have 10mil people to evac in 24hrs, not possible, not even possible in 3 days, same be true for N.Y. city, Seattle etc...

 

[Silent Earth]

My own belief is that neither Russia nor China has anything to gain from vapourising much of the US, they WANT your mineral wealth,technology, resources etc its no good if it all gets toasted, I think if anything they would use three or four very small devices enhanced for EMP and detonated at very high altitude, this would severely damage the US but not destroy the country.

 

[Maverick]

My own belief is that neither Russia nor China has anything to gain from vapourising much of the US, they WANT your mineral wealth,technology, resources etc its no good if it all gets toasted, I think if anything they would use three or four very small devices enhanced for EMP and detonated at very high altitude, this would severely damage the US but not destroy the country.

I don't see that, an EMP bomb wouldn't prevent the Minuteman III missile from being fired, it would take L-Alt 300kt+ or 1o0kt ground blast to take out the silos then we have the Tridents, once nuclear missiles are fired and Ident NATO would respond. An EMP bomb would be considered a prelude to something larger thus once the first EMP detonates all gloves are off.

 

[Silent Earth]

I don't think we would fire off a full volley of mega nukes in response to a limited attack, I think our response would be a few dozen Ground launched and sea launched low kiloton Cruise missiles to frazzle them, though I do hope never to find out either way it plays out.

 

[Silent Earth]

I don't see that, an EMP bomb wouldn't prevent the Minuteman III missile from being fired, it would take L-Alt 300kt+ or 1o0kt ground blast to take out the silos then we have the Tridents, once nuclear missiles are fired and Ident NATO would respond. An EMP bomb would be considered a prelude to something larger thus once the first EMP detonates all gloves are off.

The only LOGICAL reason to EMP us would surely be as a precursor to an invasion, not a full on nuke barrage ? then again the Russians and Chinese get their crazies from the same store as we do so who knows

 

[Gazrok]

I don't think we would fire off a full volley of mega nukes in response to a limited attack

Pretty sure our doctrine is, when attacked, we basically counter with a full strike (to ensure we don't receive a second one from the enemy).

Really, we've given our enemies no other choice but to launch a full attack. If they do a limited attack, chances are, those birds will be picked off by our ballistic missile defense system (and our counter attack will limit any second strike capability). Also, they are fully aware of our protocols to basically counter attack with a full strike (they likely have the same), so they know their best shot is attacking with numbers.

The only LOGICAL reason to EMP us would surely be as a precursor to an invasion, not a full on nuke barrage ? then again the Russians and Chinese get their crazies from the same store as we do so who knows

Exactly, but this is where the US's biggest ally (geography) comes into play. Simply put, neither nation (or even them combined), really have a means of delivering enough troops, aircraft, and armor in a non-detectable manner, to do this. And while the civilian infrastructure is pretty vulnerable to EMP, the military....not so much. So, the invaders aren't going to have a good time.

 

[Maverick]

Exactly, but this is where the US's biggest ally (geography) comes into play. Simply put, neither nation (or even them combined), really have a means of delivering enough troops, aircraft, and armor in a non-detectable manner, to do this. And while the civilian infrastructure is pretty vulnerable to EMP, the military....not so much. So, the invaders aren't going to have a good time.

Given to the fact the US has over 280 million firearm owners an invasion would simply be to costly let along US Military response. I just don't think we have to be concerned with a nuclear war anytime in the near future, russia and china would have to financially weaken us (something china has been maneuvering towards since the early 90s) to the point we could no longer produce arms before even contemplating any form of a nuclear strike and an invasion.

 

[Silent Earth]

Remember the old adage from as far back and as far east as you can get, From Ghengis Khan to Emperer chin, to Mao Tze Dong, To Ho Chi Min to many an Islamic leader, They simply don't care if they lose 1 million lives in a war, or 5 million, or ten million or 50 million, so long as in the end they come out on top.

Russians, Mongols, Persians, Vietnamese, Chinese, Moors, Asyrians you name it they will see insane numbers of their people die in order to succeed, that's why they have the advantage of us in the west , We treasure, life, liberty, freedom, they value a glorious death for the Cause or party or Allah.

My friend Maverick said " Given to the fact the US has over 280 million firearm owners an invasion would simply be to costly let along US Military response."

Remember Vietnam as a poor example but the US had totally massive overwhelming military superiority over the Min or Cong but the result was defeat, same as us Brits in India. If that psyche, that mentality, that willingness to die for their cause, god or leader saw them set foot on Conus I don't think 280 million fire arms will be enough. Especially if they spread out and operate as insurgents and terrorists instead of full on combat troops.

 

[Brent S]

Remember the old adage from as far back and as far east as you can get, From Ghengis Khan to Emperer chin, to Mao Tze Dong, To Ho Chi Min to many an Islamic leader, They simply don't care if they lose 1 million lives in a war, or 5 million, or ten million or 50 million, so long as in the end they come out on top.

Russians, Mongols, Persians, Vietnamese, Chinese, Moors, Asyrians you name it they will see insane numbers of their people die in order to succeed, that's why they have the advantage of us in the west , We treasure, life, liberty, freedom, they value a glorious death for the Cause or party or Allah.

My friend Maverick said " Given to the fact the US has over 280 million firearm owners an invasion would simply be to costly let along US Military response."

Remember Vietnam as a poor example but the US had totally massive overwhelming military superiority over the Min or Cong but the result was defeat, same as us Brits in India. If that psyche, that mentality, that willingness to die for their cause, god or leader saw them set foot on Conus I don't think 280 million fire arms will be enough. Especially if they spread out and operate as insurgents and terrorists instead of full on combat troops.

The difference is when a people are on their own soil, they don't give up. When overseas troops get demoralized after a long time and are more likely to loose their zeal for continuing the fight. I do think the good ole American redneck would be pretty formidable. In the real world, no one is close to strong enough to attack the U.S. Mainland directly, and don't need to. Isis is using the same playbook that took down Rome. They just use small scale attacks, which will bankrupt us by overreacting to them. Every time something happens we spend hundreds of millions on extra security. Those are dollars we don't have and continue to borrow. I think this kind of weapon will bring us down faster than a bomb.

 

[Silent Earth]

The difference is when a people are on their own soil, they don't give up. When overseas troops get demoralized after a long time and are more likely to loose their zeal for continuing the fight. .

Yer bloody well did in 1812 just one hour at Bladensburg for only 4000 Brits and Canucks to defeat Pres Madisons Continental Army , saying that look what happened to our King Harold, beat the Viking army in the north, marched back south, fought the Normans to a standstill then disintegrated when just one archer got lucky (must have been an ancestor of Daryl Dixon)

 

[Silent Earth]

The difference is when a people are on their own soil, they don't give up. When overseas troops get demoralized after a long time and are more likely to loose their zeal for continuing the fight. I do think the good ole American redneck would be pretty formidable. In the real world, no one is close to strong enough to attack the U.S. Mainland directly, and don't need to. Isis is using the same playbook that took down Rome. They just use small scale attacks, which will bankrupt us by overreacting to them. Every time something happens we spend hundreds of millions on extra security. Those are dollars we don't have and continue to borrow. I think this kind of weapon will bring us down faster than a bomb.

Yup I put my money in a three way attack, violent insurgency by terrorists, economic warfare driving the country bankrupt and being outbred by migrant stock in your homeland turning the white WASP majority into an ethnic minority.

 

[Gazrok]

Russians, Mongols, Persians, Vietnamese, Chinese, Moors, Asyrians you name it they will see insane numbers of their people die in order to succeed, that's why they have the advantage of us in the west

Still doesn't solve the geographical problem of GETTING them here. You have to put them IN something to do so, and those THINGS can be blown to smithereens, neatly packaged for group destruction, without some kind of stealth way in. The lack of these THINGS is where the East simply cannot mount an invasion.

 

[Brent S]

Rule #1, no one is ready for a nuclear attack.

 

[Maverick]

The only country with the logistics to attempt an invasion (very limited at that these days) would be russia, even as 'mad' putin is, putin even knows 'Red Dawn' was just a movie. china certainly doesn't have the air and naval logistics to even attempt such adventure.

russia has 32k airborne troops then the heavies would need to be air dropped, that many air transport aircraft's, refuelers and air protection (migs) the blip would be too large to get through the air defenses or even close. I just don't see a ground invasion being successful.

 

[Silent Earth]

Still doesn't solve the geographical problem of GETTING them here. You have to put them IN something to do so, and those THINGS can be blown to smithereens, neatly packaged for group destruction, without some kind of stealth way in. The lack of these THINGS is where the East simply cannot mount an invasion.

EG First they take the Aleutians and Bear Island, Then they go for Alaska and Canada, then they have a 5000 mile long border to cross, just food for thought, OR they take Mexico with the aid of the left wing countries of Central America, Or they do both at once, or they just send terror cells and small insurgency units and wage a prolonged but cheap and effective conflict with Americanised militias. Attrition is a good weapon as we Brits found out with the IRA constantly attacking across Ireland an the UK from 1922 onwards. Heck they don't even need to win, just make the US fearful and paranoid and force it to spend trillions of dollars protecting every small town in the US.

Or the Chinese can simply say " Time to pay up" on those billions in bonds and debts they hold. ""Ah so you cannot pay OK we will take Alaska and Hawaii as payment" I see fearful comments coming from Donald Trump and many other big money men at Chinas THIRD devaluation of the Yuan in a week and how its impacting the US economy.

Then there is Cyber war, Bio war, Terror Cells , Or someone encourages the Black or Asian or Hispanic communities to fight for their own lands, imagine not being sure if you pool boy, mechanic, dog walker, trainer, deputy, paramedic, veteran, longshoreman, linesman, trucker etc is suddenly not going to turn on you, your business, your power station, your water plant, your fuel depot


Wars today will be different from the old type of war, we have to think laterally, a brave heart and an M4 in the hands of millions of citizens does not stop the vial of disease in the school water tank, does not stop the bomb on the train of gasoline passing through town, does not prevent the gas main being cut, the phone exchange being blown up the random sniper, the anthrax in the air con, the tainted medical supplies etc etc etc and I expect bad guy today to consider all attack options.

It was a wise American like Mel Tappan or Ragnar Benson , or Jeff Cooper who said something like " the country is in a very dangerous position and totally vulnerable when
1 it relies on imported oil
2 imported migrant workers for its food
3 its borders are insecure
4 its MAJOR industries are own by overseas companies"

etc and someone else added when all your computers are made with Japanese processors, Chinese Hard drives, Russian WIFI systems etc

 

[Silent Earth]

FYI I rest my case with this for your fair country
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...recession-surge-Mexicans-crossing-border.html

Remember that nearly everyone arriving from south of the Rio Grande have heavily instilled SOCIALIST and COMMUNITY beliefs, by my calculations my much loved American friends are already fighting a rear guard action.

 

[NCNative88]

The U.S. Military, the normal ground pounding units. Are NOT EMP protected. Been in 8 years and I can tell you that our vehicles are normal everyday items are not protected. If one hit we would not be able to even call in the troops as we dont have a way to communicate with people other than cell phones. Most of us live off post and far away and I personally would not leave my family to walk hours to find out that the base was in chaos just to walk back. The response time from normal Army would be horrible and not as strategic as one may think.

 

[Gazrok]

EG First they take the Aleutians and Bear Island, Then they go for Alaska and Canada, then they have a 5000 mile long border to cross, just food for thought, OR they take Mexico with the aid of the left wing countries of Central America

In what?

Ships? Planes? Either of which would be easily detected and intercepted miles before they unloaded.

That's the rub. Logistics. Too far to go undetected, and not enough long range stealthy transports in their arsenal. And takes more than troops. They'd need to have armor support, artillery, and facilities, etc. Simply put, they just don't have the means to deliver them here in enough quantity to factor against it.

Of course, if you compare the amount spent by the respective powers, AND add in the isolation, it becomes pretty clear. They simply can't. Terrorist style runs, sure. Invasion? Nope.