The Economy from different Perspectives

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TexasFreedom

A True Doomsday Prepper
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I had a very interesting conversation with a group of guys. Each of us had different views/backgrounds. Banking, Military, Small Business, Big Corporations, Gov't... All of us older with decent perspective.

And the topic of where is the economy going came up. Each of us were doubtful that things can turn around. But what made it most interesting was how we all looked at it. For example, the banker talked about loans. He pointed out the duality of 'news': on the one hand "Credit Scores" are higher than ever in history, yet credit card default rates are skyrocketing.

The big corp guy talked about how he examines in detail corporate numbers. He said they're running on threads. They're struggling with out-of-control medical insurance #'s. Sales are really hurting. Hiring foreigners to reduce employee costs. Car makers are in dire straits, lease take-backs (cars that were leased that were repo'd) have cratered new car sales.

The military guy talked about how things have changed. Vet services are as bad as ever. The military like Trump, but morale is still suffering. Life is uncertain for soldiers.

And small business startups are way down. Sales are still down, people aren't buying because they're not making money.

Another guy is heavily invested in oil companies but fears they're going to keep going down as oil stays cheap. Another is into real estate and his research shows that property values are going to collapse like in '08.

I raised the point that the dollar needs to 'collapse', at least face severe devaluing. It's a double edged sword: devaluing the dollar will substantially increase the $20T debt service costs, but it will also devalue the total payback balance. Let me explain, let's say the dollar drops quickly to 1/4 it's current 'value'. That of course will mean high inflation, so US Treasury interest rates will go up (at least short term). But also it will quadruple federal taxes, so it becomes easier for the gov't to pay off the $20T debt. This is an extreme example, but it's not impossible. But everyone agreed that high inflation rates are coming.

So it was an enlightening conversation. We were like 7 blind mice each touching a different part of an elephant and trying to describe it. The trunk, the leg, the side, the tail, the tusk, etc. They are all parts of the elephant but they are so different.

Comments, thoughts?
 
I had a very interesting conversation with a group of guys. Each of us had different views/backgrounds. Banking, Military, Small Business, Big Corporations, Gov't... All of us older with decent perspective.

And the topic of where is the economy going came up. Each of us were doubtful that things can turn around. But what made it most interesting was how we all looked at it. For example, the banker talked about loans. He pointed out the duality of 'news': on the one hand "Credit Scores" are higher than ever in history, yet credit card default rates are skyrocketing.

The big corp guy talked about how he examines in detail corporate numbers. He said they're running on threads. They're struggling with out-of-control medical insurance #'s. Sales are really hurting. Hiring foreigners to reduce employee costs. Car makers are in dire straits, lease take-backs (cars that were leased that were repo'd) have cratered new car sales.

The military guy talked about how things have changed. Vet services are as bad as ever. The military like Trump, but morale is still suffering. Life is uncertain for soldiers.

And small business startups are way down. Sales are still down, people aren't buying because they're not making money.

Another guy is heavily invested in oil companies but fears they're going to keep going down as oil stays cheap. Another is into real estate and his research shows that property values are going to collapse like in '08.

I raised the point that the dollar needs to 'collapse', at least face severe devaluing. It's a double edged sword: devaluing the dollar will substantially increase the $20T debt service costs, but it will also devalue the total payback balance. Let me explain, let's say the dollar drops quickly to 1/4 it's current 'value'. That of course will mean high inflation, so US Treasury interest rates will go up (at least short term). But also it will quadruple federal taxes, so it becomes easier for the gov't to pay off the $20T debt. This is an extreme example, but it's not impossible. But everyone agreed that high inflation rates are coming.

So it was an enlightening conversation. We were like 7 blind mice each touching a different part of an elephant and trying to describe it. The trunk, the leg, the side, the tail, the tusk, etc. They are all parts of the elephant but they are so different.

Comments, thoughts?
I do believe that we are heading for some serious economic troubles sometime in the future. Our debt and socialist welfare system is unsustainable and will eventually fail. However, we continue to set all time record highs in the stock market. Right now I'm very pleased with the way my investments are going. Back in '08 when most people were panicking and dumping their stocks, I was buying everything I could. I even took a huge risk and leveraged a lot of my asests to purchase additional stock. The risk paid off in a big way, but if my wife only knew what I was doing.... There were some great deals on real estate back then too. A lot of my friends bought 2 or 3 houses in Vegas or Phoenix. Any time there's a down turn in the economy there are also going to be great buying opportunities for those who are paying attention. You just need to watch for the signs and be prepared to get in or out of the market at the right time.
 
Imagine the real estate opportunity in '08 if the feds had not bailed everyone out. The banks, HARP, etc. In reality far more people should have suffered because of their bad choices than actually did.

For stocks, I can see at least one scenario where stocks keep climbing. Unfortunately that aligns with high inflation rates dropping the dollar value. But there is a lot of individual wealth in this country, and that money has to go somewhere. There is only so much gold/silver to protect wealth. So I see the wealthy continuing to invest in stocks and real estate.

One key question will be how will the gov't interfere with the natural process this time. When companies make really bad decisions, the natural flow is that they file bankruptcy and are sold piecemeal to cover their debts as possible. Stock holders get some, creditors get some, bond holders get some. And everyone loses some. That should have happened to GM and several banks. Instead the gov't decided who they want to be winners and losers. How will that strategy apply this next time? Don't know, but I'm so glad Hillary isn't making those decisions!
 
the economy goes up and down it always has and always will,barring a major war this old world will keep right on spinning around,,,I see no major changes coming----------------------------------------------------------------------------------all markets fluctuate you just have to ride it out if you are on the losing end
 
What's going on now and not just in this Country isn't sustainable, people will only allow taxes to go so high before a major revolt takes place. The fiat currency is feeding crony capitalism thus our entire economic status is built around global trade, we are willing to sell out our technological advancement to keep the global trade profitable. The entire political system if not the world is doing everything it can do in making sure Trump fails! Trump is wanting to make it about America and the American people and that thinking disrupts the globalist and it's plans.
 
the economy goes up and down it always has and always will,barring a major war this old world will keep right on spinning around,,,I see no major changes coming----------------------------------------------------------------------------------all markets fluctuate you just have to ride it out if you are on the losing end


Well thar ya go.

It's just the way the world works.
Or doesn't work.
Rationing was the norm during WWII in all countries.
Some nations had it far worse than others.
Margarine came about as a cheaper substitute for butter.
Victory gardens were promoted in the U.S. to create a bit more
food so resources to go to the military.
Anyone with a back yard was encouraged to plant veggies.
Even city parts had community gardens.

The stock market fluctuates daily.
My meager investments go up and down all the time.
The only thing that does NOT go up is my retirement income!
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
I'm glad I can still supplement by gardening and hunting.
Squirrel is excellent and rabbit is good.
Sadly Ohio is pheasant poor.
Not from hunting but due to the birds eating pellet fertilizer and road salt.
 
GG, Yes, markets go up & they go down. But there are gentle rolling hills of up & down, and there are roller coaster wild & fast up & down trips.

Maverick said it well, things today are not 'sustainable'. In fact it's more like a car heading for a very rough downhill embankment. Will the car get to the bottom intact & just shaken up, or will it flip & roll & explode on the way down? This is an analogy, don't read too far into this.

A good model is going to be to watch Illinois. As I've said, they've jacked up taxes on individuals & businesses by 33% by this year alone and still don't have a workable budget. I spoke to a guy living there this past week. He's ticked about the taxes & lack of controlled spending. He'd like to leave but won't (yet). Illinois may avoid the 'junk' status for their bonds for now but we all know it's going to happen in the near future. If someone things Illinois' situation is just the standard "up's & down's", I've got some beachfront property in Arizona to sell you.
 
Shared personal sacrifice was the norm in the WW's. Today's generation has no concept of personal sacrifice. Faced with even the slightest inconvenience they look for a lawyer and someone to sue.

I get that 100%.
Having been the defendant in FOUR lawsuits!
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
All filed by hungry lawyers looking for deep pockets.
We won them all but I pooped razor blades during the trials.
One trail lasted a full week at jury.
The jurors were out for a mere 25 minutes and found me innocent
on all counts.
Still pooped razor blades however.
I'd rather slide down a razor blade mountain into an alcohol river
than go through that again.
Do I miss police work?
NO!
13 serious injuries, back broken 4 times, 9 months in rehab getting use
of my legs again.
I did more time in rehab than the perp did in jail!!!!!!!!!!!!
I walk fine today but have permanent intractable pain.
Back in therapy for p.t.s.d again.
Think cops drive around all shift drinking coffee and eating donuts?
NOT!
S'okay.
I walk.
Hunt, fish, garden,...........................:D
 
Oh! And because I was "disabled" I went to college almost for free,
earned 2 degrees and retired from General Motors.
Not bad for an ol' hillbilly.

Hunt, fish, garden,...........................:D
 
One lawsuit was filed by a homosexual who worked as an orderly
in a nursing home.
He BEAT an 89 year old blind man with one leg for peeing his diaper.
Well I arrested the sick punk for assault.
He plead not guilty, got a lawyer who was quite experienced.
We had a new prosecutor with almost NO experience.
The punk was found no guilty.
The victim died, the nursing home staff that were witnesses had moved
on and could not be located.
The victims wife was a witness but she died before trail.
The punk was found not guilty.
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Then I got my gonads sued off.
The punk lost the suit but his lawyers filed for a new trail and the city
gave up $25 grand to avoid the expense of a new trail.
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
I doubt the punk got much money.
The lawyers split it up in fees.
I hope the homo orderly gets crotch rot!
 
Shared personal sacrifice was the norm in the WW's. Today's generation has no concept of personal sacrifice. Faced with even the slightest inconvenience they look for a lawyer and someone to sue.

Great point. Here's an example. Today's generation's version of 'personal sacrifice' is that if their fast-food fried chicken/taco/hamburger order came out wrong, they call the police (or just pull out a gun). Or if a fellow thug gets killed by a white cop, they start a riot & burn down local businesses in protest. For those actually willing to 'work', they protest demanding $15/hr to flip burgers. They think it's perfectly OK to file for welfare because they deserve it, even if they have to lie about everything.

It is an inverted bizarre world where 'sacrifice' is now all about 'free' handouts.
 
There are so many people now that receive some sort of government handout/welfare that I don't think it can ever be turned around now. These handouts just aren't for the "poor" either. For example, years ago I bought a ranch in the central part of a western state. A good part of the ranch had been enrolled in CRP, which is basically a government scheme to take a lot of farm land out of production to help keep the cost of certain food products high. I think I received something like $60-$70 per acre per year. Getting that fat check every year was nice, and in time it was like getting the ranch for free, but to me it was just another form of welfare. There are countless other government programs like this. In my opinion there isn't enough people paying in to our current socilist/welfare system to keep it going. Something has to break. Now days people are so addicted to receiving "free" stuff from the government that I don't think it can ever be reversed. Certain demographics will burn and loot their neighborhoods if they even think their welfare might get reduced.
 
The most popular phrases in "da hood".

"Burn baby burn."

"Mo'! I wants mo'."

It's simply extortion by reason of arson.
Welfare, food stamps, free medical is o.k. when persons are down
and out.
IT'S NOT A MULTI-GENERATIONAL WAY OF LIFE!

IT'S NOT "HAVE AT LEAST 6 KIDS TO 6 UNKNOWN FATHERS"
(SPERM DONORS) AND DRIVE A CADILLAC TO THE WELFARE OFFICE!

The most confusing day in da hood?????????? FATHERS DAY!

It isn't racist when it's true.
My first degree came from a State college where ethnics went to school
for almost nothing.
Some actually took advantage of that and did attend college.
But didn't attend most classes.
Took tests that they could not possibly pass and got a "C" anyway.
"C" = degree.
They got jobs with an associates degree because they were minorities.
Once hired an employer can't fire them because.............they are minorities.
So why is it this old white male with two degrees was passed over for
promotions at General Motors FIVE times?
Because black/Hispanic women who could not zip up a zipper
HAD to be promoted first.
The human resources director at G.M. was a black female, dumb as
a rock, that had once been FIRED for bringing a loaded handgun into
the plant to shoot her cheating boyfriend.

I CAUGHT a network of black Union employees stealing high performance
ENGINES!
I almost got fired!
The thieves were taking engines out of the plant and selling them
to dealers who didn't care where they came from.
After that bulls$it I just didn't see anything going on any longer.
The union ruled.
 
Don't EVEN get me started...:mad:


Believe me I totally understand the "frustration".
That's putting very mildly.
Manners prevent me from writing how I really feel!
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr:confused::mad:

"Gimmie mo'! I want's Mo'!"

I guess some people really do feel entitled.
upload_2017-7-20_13-42-28.png


^^^^^^^^Bawwwwwwwwwwwww-hawwwwwwwwwwwww

Screw the lazy, no good, welfare, entitled,.............(**&%^*()__)+!!!
 
The most confusing day in da hood?????????? FATHERS DAY!

Jeager,

What you said shocked me, but with thought it really does ring more true than ever. I recently read an article that went into this, but it was focused mostly on the fallacy of black poverty. A few details:
* Black families with 2 parents where both parents work full time jobs have a poverty rate of 2%. TWO PERCENT!
* 8% of black married couples live in poverty
* 46% of single black women with children live in poverty.

So 1 in 50 black working couples with children are in poverty. But 1 in 2 black single women with kids are in poverty. And I'll bet the stat's are similar regardless of race: white, hispanic, asian, etc. Two really simple lessons: 1) WAIT until you're married to have kids and 2) get a JOB.

NOW here is the shocking statement that will blow away our liberal readers. CANCELLING 95% OF WELFARE WILL SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCE POVERTY NUMBERS.

Chew on that idea. Really think about it. Many women have kids out of wedlock because it's a culture to pop them out & live on the dole. They're perfectly happy living in poverty and not working. And they're raising the next generation to do the same which will cost 10 times more. My thought is to cut the cord. It can be to all at once, or weaned over a matter of months, or cut off from any future applications, any of these can work. Now we'll have to get past the "oh poor me" stories for a while. But when you take away the carrot you change behavior. Women will learn that not having kids will be to their benefit. And guys will learn that they have responsibilities that cost a whole lot.

Women really can decide not to have kids until their lives are stable and they can support them. Women are brighter than guys in general. And there can be other consequences. A woman pops out kids but won't care for them? OK, the state will take the kids into foster, AND spay the mother. Animal shelters do this all the time. Now they don't have to do this on day one, but maybe on the 2nd kid? Or 6 months of help then do it? Or she can leave the country & not return (without getting spayed).

All this sounds very cruel. But an economic collapse will be much worse.
 
Jeager,

What you said shocked me, but with thought it really does ring more true than ever. I recently read an article that went into this, but it was focused mostly on the fallacy of black poverty. A few details:
* Black families with 2 parents where both parents work full time jobs have a poverty rate of 2%. TWO PERCENT!
* 8% of black married couples live in poverty
* 46% of single black women with children live in poverty.

So 1 in 50 black working couples with children are in poverty. But 1 in 2 black single women with kids are in poverty. And I'll bet the stat's are similar regardless of race: white, hispanic, asian, etc. Two really simple lessons: 1) WAIT until you're married to have kids and 2) get a JOB.

NOW here is the shocking statement that will blow away our liberal readers. CANCELLING 95% OF WELFARE WILL SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCE POVERTY NUMBERS.

Chew on that idea. Really think about it. Many women have kids out of wedlock because it's a culture to pop them out & live on the dole. They're perfectly happy living in poverty and not working. And they're raising the next generation to do the same which will cost 10 times more. My thought is to cut the cord. It can be to all at once, or weaned over a matter of months, or cut off from any future applications, any of these can work. Now we'll have to get past the "oh poor me" stories for a while. But when you take away the carrot you change behavior. Women will learn that not having kids will be to their benefit. And guys will learn that they have responsibilities that cost a whole lot.

Women really can decide not to have kids until their lives are stable and they can support them. Women are brighter than guys in general. And there can be other consequences. A woman pops out kids but won't care for them? OK, the state will take the kids into foster, AND spay the mother. Animal shelters do this all the time. Now they don't have to do this on day one, but maybe on the 2nd kid? Or 6 months of help then do it? Or she can leave the country & not return (without getting spayed).

All this sounds very cruel. But an economic collapse will be much worse.
I personally favor cutting off the government tit completely. Work or starve. I really don't care which. A couple of generations of pampering and coddling has only created a very large and very useless segment of our society. Ok. That may be a bit harsh. How about a free one way plane ticket to the country of their choice then. Of course they'd have to surrender their passport and not be allowed back in. Maybe France, Germany or the UK will take them in as "refugees". It could be called Operation: Take Out The Trash.
 
It could be called Operation: Take Out The Trash.

Hysterical. Note that I left 5% of welfare in place. I think there is a small portion of welfare recipients who truly are incapable of caring for themselves. I don't know the number, 5%, 10%? But small. I'm fine with helping them to live with dignity. Note that this does NOT include nuts who took drugs and made themselves vegetables: I see no reason to keep them alive.

One problem is that no country would take the Trash. So I'll ask to change the title. Instead let's take a nice island off Alaska, one with LOTS of big hungry bears. For these Trash, if no other country will take them, we drop them off on the island, butt naked. So the new operation name would be: FEED THE BEARS. Short, simple, clear. Their last act on earth might be the only good thing they'll ever do... I only wonder if Al Gore would approve of this as it's a way of supporting 'nature'?
 

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