Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America, 'democracy, world order'

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But how long will you make it an acute appendicitis, or some other easy curable illness .. as long as doctors have electricity?
don't you mean when they DONT have electricity? you expecting to have some horrible illness are you?:D
will doctors make it WTSHTF? if the ones I've spoken to are a sample they probably wont.
 
But how long will you make it an acute appendicitis, or some other easy curable illness .. as long as doctors have electricity?

Human have dealt with those issues for thousands of years, of course life expectancy wasn’t as high as today for most. We are medically smarter today and a lot of issues that plagued earlier times can be managed easier with today’s knowledge.

A lot of people survive by artificial means and by that I mean pills, oxygen, pacemakers etc... unfortunately life expectancies are going to be far less. Let’s just hope we won’t be around if and when the grid goes down for an indefinite period of time.
 
Yes, I meant don’t have
thought so.
without electric even IF there are any doctors I don't think they can do much, they need all their machines and monitors to do the operations you mentioned. to say nothing of nurses to assist.
I expect to be back to good old natural medicines once the power shuts down, I don't see any stocks of pharmaceuticals lasting long once the druggies start rioting in the cities.
 
Having the grid go down for an extended period concerns me more than any other SHTF possibility. I guess because it is so likely because if nature (the sun) doesn't do it, some enemy might. So likely also because these enemies could do so in various ways... from an EMP weapon to computer malware. Some folks think it will be no big deal because human society has done just fine without electricity for most of history. Problem is, thru all this history we gradually adapted as a society over many centuries so that there was an infrastructure to deal with life without electricity. There was know how, tools, supplies, manufacturers, etc. spread all over the country/world to make life without electricity bearable... if not downright pleasant. If we lose electricity instantaneously, 99.9% wont be going back to the 1880's... we will be going much further back in time to similar to when the native Americans came here where most everything was done by hand.

For that reason, a big part of my prepper stores are hand tools... and lots of them. For example, one hoe ain't gonna do much good if all of our gardens are expanded greatly and will be tended by hand, so I store many. I have all sorts of saws, axes & hatchets for harvesting wood. To help with the transition, I do have some basic solar capability. I keep around a dozen 280w solar panels in storage that will power up 2 solar generators, a flex well pump and some dc water heaters. I also have multiple hand operated grain mills to handle the grains/corn from the gardens. Point is, I give this grid down possibility a lot of thought and am somewhat prepared but am terrified of this coming to reality. What the heck will most folks, even preppers, do that aren't as prepared as me?
 
I’m able to do most things I need without electricity where I live. One of the areas I would struggle with is storing meat from hunting as when power goes down now I have a generator to power the freezers. Most likely I’d be eating the larger game in the winter months and relying on the smaller game and fish in the summer months. I’d increase the root cellar capacity and utilize a lot more natural foods.
Heating would be easy with wood stoves but the smoke could also be a beacon for people to find my location. Any sort of electronics would have to be kept hidden as they would make you a target to anyone you come across.
 
if your talking about going back to a date without electricity, in the UK it'll be more like before 1750 the year the Industrial Revolution took off in Britain.
look on youtube at "tales from the green valley" this will give you an idea of how I see the survivors living day to day in a post SHTF environment. it makes interesting viewing.
 
99.9% wont be going back to the 1980s they'll be dead! modern civilisations will collapse without electricity as all our technology and supply systems rely on it.
Meant to say 99.9% of the survivors. :) My point is even among most preppers, we will be going back to a time of hand tools and no animals to pull our wagons or work the gardens. Heck how many preppers would survive a year after an instantaneous loss of all electricity?
 
Meant to say 99.9% of the survivors. :) My point is even among most preppers, we will be going back to a time of hand tools and no animals to pull our wagons or work the gardens. Heck how many preppers would survive a year after an instantaneous loss of all electricity?
depends on the definition of preppers I suppose, the survivors will have to be a mixture of prepper, survivalist and homesteader.
no animals to pull your wagons? no horses in America?
you will need animal dung to fertilise your gardens, artificial fertiliser will run out quickly. all artificial fertiliser in the UK is imported and that will stop WTSHTF.
 
depends on the definition of preppers I suppose, the survivors will have to be a mixture of prepper, survivalist and homesteader.
no animals to pull your wagons? no horses in America?
you will need animal dung to fertilise your gardens, artificial fertiliser will run out quickly. all artificial fertiliser in the UK is imported and that will stop WTSHTF.
Plenty of horses in America. I have 4 myself but they are not trained to pull a wagon. Besides that, I don't have all the specialized harnesses & gear needed for draft animals to pull a cart... much less a plow. I don't even have a wagon to pull but that would be easier solved. More importantly, the experience (know how) in how to build, maintain or use any such equipment is now almost completely lost. As I stated, all this past infrastructure is mostly gone. With time, and I would expect a lot of time, this industry & experience could be rebuilt but man, will it ever be hard. Most would have to start from scratch with no one to teach.
 
Plenty of horses in America. I have 4 myself but they are not trained to pull a wagon. Besides that, I don't have all the specialized harnesses & gear needed for draft animals to pull a cart... much less a plow. I don't even have a wagon to pull but that would be easier solved. More importantly, the experience (know how) in how to build, maintain or use any such equipment is now almost completely lost. As I stated, all this past infrastructure is mostly gone. With time, and I would expect a lot of time, this industry & experience could be rebuilt but man, will it ever be hard. Most would have to start from scratch with no one to teach.
There are still a lot of people around using horses for work or pulling a wagon or carriage. I used several teams of draft horses for logging and pulling sleds for feeding and gathering firewood. I also trained saddle horses and pulling horses for myself and others. The countryside is covered with old horse drawn equipment, some still in usable condition, and some just good for parts. Same with harnesses. Many old barns still have harnesses, collars, hames, eveners etc hanging on the walls. Some are still usable and some would just make parts. There are people around that still make harnesses, saddles and horse drawn equipment. It would certainly be a slow process going back to using horse power in a large way, but many people do live in areas where the transition wouldn't be too difficult.
I still maintain that most people, in rural areas especially, are far more resourceful and adaptable than many people give them credit for. Those that aren't very resourceful or flexible, good riddance to them.
 
There are still a lot of people around using horses for work or pulling a wagon or carriage. I used several teams of draft horses for logging and pulling sleds for feeding and gathering firewood. I also trained saddle horses and pulling horses for myself and others. The countryside is covered with old horse drawn equipment, some still in usable condition, and some just good for parts. Same with harnesses. Many old barns still have harnesses, collars, hames, eveners etc hanging on the walls. Some are still usable and some would just make parts. There are people around that still make harnesses, saddles and horse drawn equipment. It would certainly be a slow process going back to using horse power in a large way, but many people do live in areas where the transition wouldn't be too difficult.
I still maintain that most people, in rural areas especially, are far more resourceful and adaptable than many people give them credit for. Those that aren't very resourceful or flexible, good riddance to them.
Agree and why I stated most would struggle... not all. There used to be one old guy in our town that trained & used draft animals but with his passing, I don't think anyone does that anymore in my area. I understand this knowledge & equipment has not totally disappeared but it is mighty rare and after such an event, finding someone might be close to impossible. After a crisis event, how would folks hunt down this old equipment? Would it be safe to for a year or more? That is why I plan on the manual methods... at least initially.
 
if your talking about going back to a date without electricity, in the UK it'll be more like before 1750 the year the Industrial Revolution took off in Britain.
look on youtube at "tales from the green valley" this will give you an idea of how I see the survivors living day to day in a post SHTF environment. it makes interesting viewing.

Thanks for the green valley info. I am now starting to watch the series.

I do think all that have commented on the difficulties that would happen with a major grid down are correct. Almost all the city folks are goner. A large portion of the rural folks will be goners too. Those that still live in the remote areas will fair better than most. OldCoots plan is very valid. I think Articdude will do very well. Bigpaul is tough enough to make it too. For me, if the EMP does not destroy solar panels, then I will make it too. If the solar panels are gone, then my future would be in doubt. My urban or rural locations will require some form of fuel. Locating alternate fuel sources would put me at risk, hence the doubt for long term survival without solar panels.
 
For me, if the EMP does not destroy solar panels, then I will make it too. If the solar panels are gone, then my future would be in doubt. My urban or rural locations will require some form of fuel. Locating alternate fuel sources would put me at risk, hence the doubt for long term survival without solar panels.
You familiar with Dr. Bradley's new product he is currently developing? EMPStorm is whole house surge protection from EMP, solar & lightning. If I had a full solar system installed, I'd be in line to get one of these.
http://disasterpreparer.com/empstorm/

His latest tests show that solar panels in storage (not connected to the system) should survive the EMP just fine. To be real safe, some of my stored panels are in Faraday enclosures.
 
@OldCoot

First thanks for the link. My problem is I have researched and found conflicting info / theories. Some say the panels are safe if not connected, other say it won't matter unless completed shielded (Faraday cage). This debate is way above my knowledge base. I do plan to have some active and some stored, as replacement. If the stored theories are correct, then I am good to go but if the other theory is correct, then my goose maybe cooked. I cannot afford to build a Faraday cage big enough to store all the replacement panels.
 
there are plenty of horses in the UK but not many that can pull a cart or a plough, not that I shall be doing much ploughing post SHTF, I prefer donkeys myself horses can be a bit highly strung, I saw a small cart being pulled by a couple of Shetland ponies- miniture ponies- and they did it very well!
I have seen some harnesses being sold in markets so they are obviously still available.
 
If the stored theories are correct, then I am good to go but if the other theory is correct, then my goose maybe cooked. I cannot afford to build a Faraday cage big enough to store all the replacement panels.
You know, a Faraday enclosure doesn't have to be expensive. I wrap my panels using rolled cardboard and the big rolls of thick aluminum foil. I put two panels back to back and first wrap with cardboard, then several layers of foil and the cardboard again, to protect the foil. I get the rolls of foil that are 2' x 1000' and only cost $50. Can wrap a lot of stuff with that foil. I use the rolled cardboard but you could easily use old boxes.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001LNGM8E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/ch...-heavy-duty-aluminum-foil-roll/12224X1HD.html

panel1.jpg


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there are plenty of horses in the UK but not many that can pull a cart or a plough, not that I shall be doing much ploughing post SHTF, I prefer donkeys myself horses can be a bit highly strung, I saw a small cart being pulled by a couple of Shetland ponies- miniture ponies- and they did it very well!
I have seen some harnesses being sold in markets so they are obviously still available.
With time and patience any horse can be trained to work under harness. Even a light saddle horse can be trained to pull a garden plow or a wagon. A lot of horse drawn equipment is easy to make just from all the junk that's laying around most farms and ranches. Years ago I built a horse drawn snow plow, a stone boat, a bob sled, harrow etc.
I think that post SHTF many people that own horses as pets will turn them lose becaue they won't able to purchase winter feed.
 

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