Human behavior in crisis

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My work schedule is going to be on the light side for a few weeks yet, so I have some idle time to wonder, and do some research.

I am wondering what the statistics are for crime during natural disasters, in this case a hurricane. So I posted this here. Mods, feel free to move, or delete if super boring. :)

I decided to look at Hurricane Katrina.

The first thing I found was an "after action report" by two paramedics who, without a vehicle for unexplained reasons, travelled with a group of people in an attempt to go somewhere to get food, water, and shelter.

Before I post some excerpts, I will say that ALL of the sites I found this story on were left-leaning. The full articles all cast this as a Socio-economic problem, and I am only interested in the end results. Did looting happen? What businesses/residences were looted? Did THIS group, in desperation, accost individuals? Did they try to go to the woods, and live off the land? Things like that.

"Two days after Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans, the Walgreens store at the corner of Royal and Iberville Streets in the city’s historic French Quarter remained locked. The dairy display case was clearly visible through the windows. It was now 48 hours without electricity, running water, plumbing, and the milk, yogurt, and cheeses were beginning to spoil in the 90-degree heat. The owners and managers had locked up the food, water, pampers and prescriptions, and fled the city. Outside Walgreens’ windows, residents and tourists grew increasingly thirsty and hungry. The much-promised federal, state and local aid never materialized, and the windows at Walgreens gave way to the looters. There was an alternative. The cops could have broken one small window and distributed the nuts, fruit juices and bottled water in an organized and systematic manner. But they did not. Instead, they spent hours playing cat and mouse, temporarily chasing away the looters."

The articles I found don't give much background to how or why these two paramedics were there or what they were doing.

My takeaway: People stay because they want to, or because they don't have transportation. Before they die of thirst, people start scavenging. Seems pretty obvious. 48 hours. If I am stuck in a city, I can either be prepared to wait things out on my own supplies, or start scavenging early and beat the crowd. Also, don't count on "aid" because it may come late, or never.

The hotels turned us out and locked their doors, telling us that “officials” had told us to report to the convention center to wait for more buses. As we entered the center of the city, we finally encountered the National Guard. The guard members told us we wouldn’t be allowed into the Superdome, as the city’s primary shelter had descended into a humanitarian and health hellhole. They further told us that the city’s only other shelter—the convention center—was also descending into chaos and squalor, and that the police weren’t allowing anyone else in. Quite naturally, we asked, “If we can’t go to the only two shelters in the city, what was our alternative?” The guards told us that this was our problem—and no, they didn’t have extra water to give to us…The police commander came across the street to address our group. He told us he had a solution: we should walk to the Pontchartrain Expressway and cross the greater New Orleans Bridge to the south side of the Mississippi, where the police had buses lined up to take us out of the city…We organized ourselves, and the 200 of us set off for the bridge with great excitement and hope. As we marched past the convention center, many locals saw our determined and optimistic group, and asked where we were headed. We told them about the great news. Families immediately grabbed their few belongings, and quickly, our numbers doubled and then doubled again. Babies in strollers now joined us, as did people using crutches, elderly clasping walkers and other people in wheelchairs. We marched the two to three miles to the freeway and up the steep incline to the bridge…

My takeaways: Don't go where "Authority" tells me to go. The people in the Superdome were basically trapped there, for good or bad. I'm willing to bet anyone who scored a six pack of Gatorade was really popular for the few minutes it took to be gone. So, avoid large groups of people. And, they were ordered to cross a bridge, and that didn't work out too well...

As we approached the bridge, armed sheriffs formed a line across the foot of the bridge. Before we were close enough to speak, they began firing their weapons over our heads. This sent the crowd fleeing in various directions. As the crowd scattered and dissipated, a few of us inched forward and managed to engage some of the sheriffs in conversation. We told them of our conversation with the police commander and the commander’s assurances. The sheriffs informed us that there were no buses waiting. The commander had lied to us to get us to move. We questioned why we couldn’t cross the bridge anyway, especially as there was little traffic on the six-lane highway. They responded that the West Bank was not going to become New Orleans, and there would be no Superdomes in their city…All day long, we saw other families, individuals and groups make the same trip up the incline in an attempt to cross the bridge, only to be turned away—some chased away with gunfire, others simply told no, others verbally berated and humiliated. Thousands of New Orleaners were prevented and prohibited from self-evacuating the city on foot. (Bradshaw and Slonsky 2005)

Now this last paragraph I find pretty interesting. Chased away by gunfire.


Now, the "shooting over their heads" story is just that, a story. Maybe true, I wasn't there.

What I couldn't find, was the end of the story. All of the sites I looked at just ended it there. What happened to this group of people? I imagine that they received food and water from the National Guard right there at the bridge, but that wouldn't have made a very dramatic ending to the gripping story of these two paramedics. But I don't know. I WOULD THINK that if 200 plus people had died in a heap desperately running into the bullets of the National Guard, I would have heard about that.

Nothing was said about anyone in the group attacking individuals. I have no way of knowing if it happened, but I will ASSUME it did not. I am not assuming that means no criminal groups were looking for easy, well supplied targets.

As far as the Superdome, the last refugees? were evacuated on September 3rd, so if they started there during the storm, they spent 7 days stuck in there. I read some pretty bad stories, but they lived. They just had a really, really shitty experience.


Now, I am in no danger of hurricanes here, but it is still interesting to read about what actually goes down in a real, grid down emergency. How do I take some lessons from that, and apply them to where I live? I need to look at what could happen, and where people would go, and how long the event might last. That last is pretty hard to predict.

As always, I am not "living in fear" or looking to encourage it. I don't believe in that. I do think it is useful to try to take some lessons when I can. Also, I try to teach my kids to depend on themselves. On the rare occasions the subject matter comes up, it is nice to have stories like these to point to, and say, "Here's why you need to be able to take care of you".

I have been in hurricanes at sea, and been in several tropical storms in, well, the tropics. I always had a big ship to go back to though, or a military base. I was in Japan during the Great Hanshin Earthquake (Atsugi was a pretty long away though), but I wasn't assigned to go down there and help, I just saw some of the aftermath.

If anyone has a personal story they would share, please do. I would love to hear what specific items or preps really saved the day, during a real, honest to God emergency. I will search over some threads, so If you have posted them here before and are tired of telling the same story over and over, no problems, I will find it!

I figure, we are good for 72 hours no problem whatsoever, and really longer than that but the daughter would start complaining about eating canned goods lol.

 
I lived in the new orleans area during and after Katrina. I stayed on the 8th floor of a 14 story condo building on the shore of lake Ponchatrain in new orleans within 6 blocks of the 17th street canal breach. I watched from the 8th floor, the breach occure and widen all day as the area flooded.

During the night the storm passed, the building swayed back and forth for hours.

In metairie, the other side of the 17th st. Canal. It was not flooded by any levee breach, just street flooding from rain. Many homes where flooded, but none were washed away or surmurge like in New Orleans. The sherrif there blocked the bridges and accesses from N.O. to jefferson parish. The grecery stores where looted or opened and people where allowed to take food/drinks from the stores as long as the pharmacy wasnt broken into and looted. The westbank of the river, as was mentioned in the story was the same. The suburbs adjacent to the city limits of new orleans are not run by liberals like N.O. is. They did not want the new orleans idiot libtards moving into the surrounding parishes (look what Houston got)

I need to do a write up one day and post my detailed experience. Its very similer to Gazroks, but for a longer time and an even longer recovery time.
 
I have run across Gazroks posts about his experience, and I will be reading all the threads about it.

I would like to hear what went down for you.
 
Back in the 1970s, I was a Red Cross Disaster Action Team member. (as an aside, it grieves me to see how low the Red Cross has descended to since then)

Anyhow, I worked floods in two cities, New Orleans and Jackson, Mississippi. I would believe anything you told me about New Orleans after a flood because I've seen it before. I came away despising the place. Jackson (my home town BTW) on the other hand, did me proud. You could not have asked for a better response from the citizens (black and white, rich and poor) to a disaster.
 
If responses are based on socio-economic conditions, then I would think Madison would do pretty well in a short term emergency. The "bad" parts of town aren't really very "bad".

I would never move to Chicago, or even Rockford, IL. A lot of folks in those places are in desperate circumstances without an emergency.

Ill have to do some more research after work. I doubt anything I find is going to surprise me, but who knows?
 
me thinks;despite that some towns are "better" by your point of view ,there still is that human factor,some places you deem bad,might very well cope quite good,
as there are little resources,so they prolly know how to make the best of with what they have,but,turn it around,places with abundant resources now,can
be a real shit hole in no time at all,when you take away "the good things" from those people..
a long term emergency,takes the toll even on a "decent" normal human.
 
Of course. But I have no way of knowing. I can look at real world examples, and try to make an educated guess.

First example, inner city New Orleans. It didn't seem to go well.

You might be thinking this is a race thing? Or a slam on those who have very little? I'm guessing by your quotation marks around "better", "decent".

It's not. Not what I am looking at all. There are good and bad people everywhere. I live in a pretty "nice" area, with some people who clearly consider themselves "better". Some of them would react poorly if the power went out, and stayed out. That's human nature.

I've been in slums outside Johannesburg, and Durbin, while those folks might not care too much about electricity, if food and water assistance stopped flowing, they would have a problem.

I have been in areas of Appalachia, in Kentucky and Tennessee, and if government aid stopped flowing there, the natural resources would be better to start with, but I would think they would have a problem as well. Poor towns. No jobs to build a good base now. Not everyone can hunt and fish.

I really can't think of a place I can say anything about, that wont offend someone. Makes it hard to communicate. I am just looking at what happened in real world disasters, the bottom line of crime statistics and recovery times back to what could be considered normal.

3 days here without power? Inconvenient. 3 months without power? Riots. I guarantee it. No one is better or worse when they are starving, they have a new definition, "starving".
 
We have good and bad in all walks of life that's a given but with the expanding population growth with urban areas consuming suburban areas suburban areas consuming rural areas we are going to have to deal with the bad apples. Most of the expansions are along coastal states where majority of natural disasters occur.

Because one is poor doesn't excuse bad behavior, right and wrong still exist regardless of class, poor folks tend to congregate in intercity and dense urban areas it is also the poor that are preyed upon by the bad apples, it's also to be expected that looting will occur in any unrest given it from blackouts or natural disasters, it all boils down to opportunity presents itself.

When I hear on the news that the store was looted one or two days after a disaster because the looters were hungry I'm calling bullshit! a vast difference exist between hungry and starving, being hungry doesn't take away cognitive thinking starving on the other hand brings in primal instinct! No, looting withing 3 days of a disaster is still a case of opportunity presents itself.
 
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I didn't think for a second your intention was or is to insult any one.
there is nothing more complicated than human nature,my guess is 3 weeks without power -> riots, 'cause that would mean no food too.
this is hard,but I go along the path that,those who have less,may be "smarter" in aqcuire goods,though the occasinal intrusion to "richer hoods"
may be the result..
 
one thing that prolly differs me from the rest in my neighborhood,is that I prep,live in a high-rise,were most live in detached house and are prolly
earning a euro or two more than I do.
take away food and heating from those,that would cause trouble here,as they would not be accustomed to that,is my thinking.
would I behave like a hero of some sort in my high-rise?? really don't know..as I see myself as just a regular guy,working in the medical field.
 
Many people don't keep food or supplies on hand. I agree anyone can live off of crackers and mustard if need be for 3 days. So luting before then is a total crock. What gets me is when the start breaking into stores to steal TV's and tennis shoes... no excuse and they should be shot on site. These are good stories to research. It shows us what can happen in a short amount of time. People knew Katrina was coming, and look at how bad that turned out. What about an unplanned natural disaster? Things could go south quickly.
 
Ok, I guess I was too ready to get jumped on about some of the subject matter.

I am looking online for other examples, I'm considering looking at some studies of the Chernobyl Nuclear disaster.
 
Ran across this...

https://www.crhnet.ca/sites/default/files/library/McEntire.2006.Anticipating human behavior in disaster.pdf

Canadian organization...

About

The CRHNet is a not-for-profit organization established in 2003 to promote and strengthen disaster risk reduction and emergency management in Canada. The Network creates an environment for hazards research, education and emergency management practitioner communities to effectively share knowledge and innovative approaches that reduce disaster vulnerability.

CRHNet's theme of 'Reducing Risk through Partnerships' calls attention to the need for partnerships to enhance the understanding of, and provide tools for, the development of comprehensive programs to mitigate, prepare for, respond to and recover from all types of disasters - natural, technological or human-induced.

They paint a pretty rosy picture of humanity IMO, but I will look through some of their case studies.

From the report in the above link...

"To summarize, irrational behavior, anti-social behavior, unreliable emergency workers, the helpless state of disaster victims, and other myths are commonly held views about people’s behavior in disaster. They do not appear to be correct in most cases."

Interesting.
 
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but what is clear,crystal clear,if you rely only on some outside entity to help you,when disaster stikes ->you are more than knee deep in pooh.
we had here some time ago in the eastern parts of my country many communities without power and none of the affected was ready
to move into emergency shelters,they said,this is my home,I'll manage and so they did.
prolly they were in the right mindset;I'll survive,I'll manage and the power was back after roughly two weeks.

had that happened here in the city,I don't even dare to think what would have happened
 
I grew up about 15 miles from a nuclear plant, so I thought I would take a look at a nuclear accident, specifically Chernobyl. While the entire timeline is fascinating in a dark way, the really relevant part is this:

Residents were given two hours to gather their belongings. The evacuation of Pripyat’s 43,000 residents took 3.5 hours, using 1,200 buses from Kiev. Residents remember that everyone was in a hurry, but nobody was panicking. The residents of Pripyat were asked to carry with them only what was required for two or three days, some food, a change of underwear, and their identity papers. Dosimeters are confiscated.


“Queues of jammed buses left the city. One after the other, like giant beetles, kilometre after kilometre. The traffic was insane. Only a Second World War survivor can imagine a similar scene.” – Resident of Pripyat

Of those who tried to return later, having realised that Pripyat was lost forever, to fetch belongings of affection, some succeeded but many more encountered alarm wired buildings and armed military.

From reading the entire timeline, it seems that by the time of the evacuation, there was a heavy military presence. However, it reads like the population stayed pretty orderly, no panic, no accounts I could find of groups trying to flee the area before the actual order. Certainly no looting or anything else. Maybe a nuclear accident is so frightening that no one wants to mess around.

43,000 in 3.5 hours. Impressive.
 
I grew up downstream of one. Only thing that ever made wonder was one year hundreds of fish jumped out onto the bank, right below the discharge. I heard it was just a temperature difference.
 
it is impressive,but we have to remember,it was done when the USSR was still alive and kicking,and those people living there
were accustomed to follow order and ready to obey,they didn't question should I,they were told and did.
but no one told them that they would never return and in the beginning no one told them why and how serious the accident was.
and from what I've read about it, it still pisses them.

this was one incident that resulted in the beginning of the end for USSR
 
I was a relief worker with the red cross after hurricane andrew, as I had just got my paramedic liscense less than 3 weeks before.

There was a lot of crime like looting. I wasn't sympathetic because people were stealing televisions, stereos, and other things that weren't neccesary for life.

Also, there was a lot of rape. This was awful because there were a lot of migrant workers (who were illegal aliens) who were victims, and they didn't come for help because they were afraid of getting deported.

This meant that they took the law into their own hands, so people were murdered. Also, children who had been raped didn't get care and the medical follow-up that they needed.

I was an anti-gun person before Andrew because of my upbringing.

After Andrew, I become very pro-gun/ pro-second ammendment.

I was young, and had an idealistic conviction that people would pull together in a crisis and help each other.

Andrew showed me how wrong I was, and how people degenerate into predatory animals very quickly when the veneer of civilization is lifted.
 
I'm neither young nor idealistic anymore,seen so many times already how people ditch their eldelry parents to the hospital
when they go on a vacation for example,99 % of times,they don't wanna get home care to help (willing to pay a minor sum) so
that the old one could stay at home...then we have those who think hospitals are hotels (they take up bed space from someone who
needs it).
I have been thinking very much how my surroundings would cope in a crises situation,not very good is my opinion,take away food,it would turn ugly
in no time at all.
and I live close to a bloody good target,a waterworks,take that place out and poeple start to thirst..
 

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