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Debbie Maddox

New Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2018
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Location
Fort Worth ,Tx
If you do how did you make yours? With the threats of emps by solar storms or other being so prominent, when do you use yours ? All day every day? Certain times a day?or only one part of the day? When would they come about? day, night? Why? And what do you feel are the important things to have in a Faraday cage? Phones?, tablets, laptops, batteries?,radios? Would that include one of those wind up solar radios?those of you with ham equipment are you using a cage for that? Are satelite phones important to have? Suggestions of type?
 
I'm sceptical regarding faraday cages given much of what we know is in theory only and been tested in an controlled environment.

On an off chance the theory is correct I chose a small garbage can. There's a lot on this in the link Rellgar posted ;)

IMG_3311.JPG
 
I keep trying to quelch these rumors of EMP shielding. I spent a decade doing EMC (electromagnetic compatibility) work. I've studies what the gov't recommends for EMP shielding.

Bottom line. Trash cans are trash. Microwaves are worthless. Cookie tins, fridges, gun safes, etc, they all are worthless.

I'm not going to explain all of it as I've done time and time again. If all you can afford or have right now is a trash can, great, use it. Just be aware that there is a 99.9% likelihood of an EMP destroying everything inside.

To properly shield some equipment, it takes serious enclosures. Basically if water can get in, it won't work. And the metal needs to be thick enough.
 
Personally, I think the best plans you can make for EMP are to have non-electric solutions to your needs. Things like hand powered tools, etc.

While I agree that a lot of it is still untested, and respect TF's experience on it, I'll still be taking at least some small steps towards having an attempt at such shielding (knowing that it may or may not work).

It's still in progress, as I'm still getting some of the things, but the current plan is:

2 Metal Trash Cans: tight fitting lids, lined with thick cardboard, aluminum tape sealed once filled. Items inside wrapped in bubble wrap.

Inside (spread throughout both)

Solar powered e-reader
Jump drives with survival books, information, videos, entertainment, etc.
(2) Cell phones (more for computing needs and playback than calls, takes less to charge than a laptop), disconnected battery
Solar powered cell charger
Cordless Drill with two (removed) batteries
Cordless Jig Saw with two (removed) batteries
Cordless Circular Saw with two (removed) batteries
Solar charger unit with AC plug
Solar battery charger (AA, AAA, C, D, 9v batteries)
Multiple packs of rechargeable AA, AAA, C, D, and 9v batteries
(6) LED rechargeable flashlights
(2) Hand crank radio, flashlight, cell charger tools
(4) rechargeable walkie talkie style handheld radios (for communicating around the ranch)
(2) Portable DVD players (and numerous pairs of headphones)
Small (but powerful) rechargeable bluetooth speaker
(6) Lantern style LED lights (that take the rechargeable batteries)
Trickle charger unit (for car battery)

I'd also like to get a couple of good, metal cabinets and add some aluminum tape flashing to them, line them with thick cardboard, and just use them as an everyday storage place for my other power tools in the garage. That way, they are easy to access (vs. keeping all the other stuff in reserve and sealed) yet always (possibly) protected. Luckily, I have dupes of most tools, so not hard to part with some to be sealed away.

Of course, where the cans are, and where the cabinets would be, are also both in a garage with a large metal roof, so some thoughts are that with an airburst EMP attack, the roof may even help with some of the initial shielding.

Again, since it's all so hypothetical, and most powered items are going to still have a pretty finite life to them, to me, the best bet is to plan on not having power at all. We lived for centuries without it. Do I want to go without it? Nope...but it won't kill us.

Apart from coming from some nukes, I put EMP pretty low on my expected list of SHTF events. But, grid failure is pretty much an inevitability of nearly ANY SHTF scenario, so it's good to plan to be without it.
 
Some other good ideas for additions.....

Spare auto parts with electronics (even bulbs, fuses, etc.)

Electronic medical supplies. (I pretty much have old school, manual versions of most of this, but an electronic version of some are indeed helpful). Like a blood sugar tester, blood pressure monitor, thermometer, etc. (and of course, spare batteries for any of this.)

Medical wise, can't stress how useful a stethoscope is, and knowing how to use it.... (I "borrowed" one from the hospital ages ago...lol) - between amateur vet purposes and home medical, it's come in real handy - not an electronic thing, but just had to mention it.
 
I keep trying to quelch these rumors of EMP shielding. I spent a decade doing EMC (electromagnetic compatibility) work. I've studies what the gov't recommends for EMP shielding.

Bottom line. Trash cans are trash. Microwaves are worthless. Cookie tins, fridges, gun safes, etc, they all are worthless.

I'm not going to explain all of it as I've done time and time again. If all you can afford or have right now is a trash can, great, use it. Just be aware that there is a 99.9% likelihood of an EMP destroying everything inside.

To properly shield some equipment, it takes serious enclosures. Basically if water can get in, it won't work. And the metal needs to be thick enough.

I would disagree a bit. You are assuming the worst case scenerio, which the government has in mind with there shielding plans. The type of emp, distance, atmopheric conditions and the type of electronics will make a difference. Its not just the thickness of a faraday cage that matters, but also the damage threshold of a device.
If a device has a damage threshold of an EMP field of 20,000 volts per meter, then reducing the electromagnetic field by a factor of 3 or 4 will be enough to protect it from known weapons, and shielding it by a factor of 10 will protect it from the super-EMP weapons that are believed by many to exist. A very efficient 80 db. faraday cage would reduce the EMP by a factor of 10,000. In other words, it would reduce a 20,000 volts per meter EMP field to 2 volts per meter. This high level of shielding is necessary for some applications, but not for the average consumer (except for the most critical electronics such as an emergency radio receiver). For many applications, an imperfect shield is quite helpful and may be all that is necessary.
A Faraday cage will protect only against the E1 and E2 components of nuclear EMP, and will do no good at all against a severe solar storm. The effects of an EMP from a solor flare and a detonated HEMP is very different.
 
Its possable it would work, but alsomremember you need to insulate the objects inside from the metal can and each other.
Would wrapping in foil twice them a mylar bad then put in the safe work?
Personally, I think the best plans you can make for EMP are to have non-electric solutions to your needs. Things like hand powered tools, etc.

While I agree that a lot of it is still untested, and respect TF's experience on it, I'll still be taking at least some small steps towards having an attempt at such shielding (knowing that it may or may not work).

It's still in progress, as I'm still getting some of the things, but the current plan is:

2 Metal Trash Cans: tight fitting lids, lined with thick cardboard, aluminum tape sealed once filled. Items inside wrapped in bubble wrap.

Inside (spread throughout both)

Solar powered e-reader
Jump drives with survival books, information, videos, entertainment, etc.
(2) Cell phones (more for computing needs and playback than calls, takes less to charge than a laptop), disconnected battery
Solar powered cell charger
Cordless Drill with two (removed) batteries
Cordless Jig Saw with two (removed) batteries
Cordless Circular Saw with two (removed) batteries
Solar charger unit with AC plug
Solar battery charger (AA, AAA, C, D, 9v batteries)
Multiple packs of rechargeable AA, AAA, C, D, and 9v batteries
(6) LED rechargeable flashlights
(2) Hand crank radio, flashlight, cell charger tools
(4) rechargeable walkie talkie style handheld radios (for communicating around the ranch)
(2) Portable DVD players (and numerous pairs of headphones)
Small (but powerful) rechargeable bluetooth speaker
(6) Lantern style LED lights (that take the rechargeable batteries)
Trickle charger unit (for car battery)

I'd also like to get a couple of good, metal cabinets and add some aluminum tape flashing to them, line them with thick cardboard, and just use them as an everyday storage place for my other power tools in the garage. That way, they are easy to access (vs. keeping all the other stuff in reserve and sealed) yet always (possibly) protected. Luckily, I have dupes of most tools, so not hard to part with some to be sealed away.

Of course, where the cans are, and where the cabinets would be, are also both in a garage with a large metal roof, so some thoughts are that with an airburst EMP attack, the roof may even help with some of the initial shielding.

Again, since it's all so hypothetical, and most powered items are going to still have a pretty finite life to them, to me, the best bet is to plan on not having power at all. We lived for centuries without it. Do I want to go without it? Nope...but it won't kill us.

Apart from coming from some nukes, I put EMP pretty low on my expected list of SHTF events. But, grid failure is pretty much an inevitability of nearly ANY SHTF scenario, so it's good to plan to be without it.
Thank you very much
 
I wouldn't recommend wrapping the items themselves in foil.

The main idea for INSIDE the cage is non-conductivity. You want the charge to be on the shell of the cage, not get inside in the first place.

Again though, as some said, it may or may not work. It really hasn't been tested a whole lot, at least in any study released to the public. Even the EMP Commission report that most cite is a) outdated, b) very limited in its testing subjects, and c) severely limited in the scope of what it tested for in the first place.
 
I have no clue, even the smallest hole will allow some radio waves in, you would have to be to seal it tight, I use aluminum foil and aluminum tape to seal under garbage can lid.


Actually, radio waves aren't what would cause damage to smaller electronic devices stored in a Faraday cage. It would be the higher frequency gamma radiation that would damage electronic devices.
 
I would disagree a bit. You are assuming the worst case scenerio, which the government has in mind with there shielding plans. The type of emp, distance, atmopheric conditions and the type of electronics will make a difference. Its not just the thickness of a faraday cage that matters, but also the damage threshold of a device.
If a device has a damage threshold of an EMP field of 20,000 volts per meter, then reducing the electromagnetic field by a factor of 3 or 4 will be enough to protect it from known weapons, and shielding it by a factor of 10 will protect it from the super-EMP weapons that are believed by many to exist. A very efficient 80 db. faraday cage would reduce the EMP by a factor of 10,000. In other words, it would reduce a 20,000 volts per meter EMP field to 2 volts per meter. This high level of shielding is necessary for some applications, but not for the average consumer (except for the most critical electronics such as an emergency radio receiver). For many applications, an imperfect shield is quite helpful and may be all that is necessary.
A Faraday cage will protect only against the E1 and E2 components of nuclear EMP, and will do no good at all against a severe solar storm. The effects of an EMP from a solor flare and a detonated HEMP is very different.

There are parts of this I agree with. Location, type of attack, etc all have an impact. Note that E2 is not significant, nearly all equipment today without shielding will handle an EMP's E2. It's the E1 and E3 that will destroy things. E3 will take out everything 'plugged in'. E1 is the component that I think will do the most damage for common electronics. 80 dB of attenuation!!??? I spent thousands of hours in a 'room' that cost a few $million that had that level of shielding. Yes, possible. Yes, necessary in most EMP scenarios. There is no such thing as a 'perfect' shield, you just get XX dB of attenuation. Hopefully you keep a flat response across frequency. But an 'imperfection' in most cases will mean a catastrophic failure in an EMP scenario. But things like trash cans, microwaves, etc, they might buy you a few dB, but far from enough to matter.

For the 'spare car parts' comment, I've got another approach. How about some 'spare cars'? I've got a few pre-computer diesels that you can EMP till the cows come home, and the only thing that will fail is basically the radio. Might blow the diodes in the alternator. But that's about it. I know, most people don't have spare change for extra vehicles let alone spare room.
 

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